Jordan puts Chinese UAVs on sale.

[war&peace]

I am just asking for a fair assessment. There are bad and good stuff coming out of China, and CH-4B is one of those good ones.

If you read the OP, it is the added words by the reporter

Chinese-made armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) up for sale, indicating its disappointment

which his conclusion and not something Jordinian military said ..He did mention any source ..not even any anonymous one.

 

[LeGenD]

You cannot be 'sure' of something Bhai, Janes is just a magazine just like popular mechanics or popular science, may have some insider news, but it's never 100% concrete and it is prone to western biases.

No no, you are not hating west, you are more like showing a predisposition of being against Chinese products. Just like you said, why does Jordan of all country need predator type drones, they are not even fighting a single war, doesn't it sound strange to you.

Exactly a new drone, not even tested in battle by the Jordanians are suddenly not up to expectations? And you don't question the fact that these UCAVs are not even tested in combat yet they can have a verdict? And that's not strange to you?

The Saudis are even building a factory for this babies my friend, we are talking about 300 drones. We have 3 countries fighting actual wars becoming repeat customers satisfied with the performance. And don't you find it strange right after they stop using Chinese drones, they are offered US ones? I respect you for your critical thinking, so start thinking my friend.

So Chinese sources are not prone to Chinese biases? What exactly is your point in this matter?

I actually know from personal experience that Chinese products are lacking in quality on average, but if a high quality Chinese product will surface, I will give it a try. This is not predisposition of being against Chinese products, I simply do not judge a book by its cover.

Check my reaction in this thread for instance: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saud...ology-from-china-report.622074/#post-11523893

But but but you will not rear your head for my seemingly pro-China reactions.

If a Pakistani product is bad, I will call out on it.
If an American product is bad, I will call out on it.

I am neutral in this, I did not assert that CH-4B is bad, but it is possible that Jordan wants something better.

YOUR PREJUDICES are a problem here, not me, you cannot bear criticism of any kind.

 

[graphican]

The truth is those China CH-4 UAVS has done fantastic jobs and shortened the mission duration.
Misled title tell us how good China CH -4 are and how jealous indians are.

Country like Jordan does not need so many UAVs.

It may well be a foreign pressure, otherwise did they purchase these drones without trying, testing and being blind of their performance? I don't think this is how countries purchase military hardware.

 

[Han Patriot]

So Chinese sources are not prone to Chinese biases? What exactly is your point in this matter?

I actually know from personal experience that Chinese products are lacking in quality on average, but if a high quality Chinese product will surface, I will give it a try. This is not predisposition of being against Chinese products, I simply do not judge a book by its cover.

I am not even quoting 'Chinese' sources. What has Chinese sources being biased got to do with Western sources being biased, both are still biased and different from your confidence in their trustworthiness and impartiality. It's like saying I can kill someone because China kills someone, so it's ok. =)

High quality products do exist, Huawei is a good example, Haier is a good example, DJI is a good example, you are talking from a biased lens, that's why I am not sure you are even Pakistani.

Check my reaction in this thread for instance: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saud...ology-from-china-report.622074/#post-11523893

But but but you will not rear your head for my seemingly pro-China reactions.

If a Pakistani product is bad, I will call out on it.
If an American product is bad, I will call out on it.

I am neutral in this, I did not assert that CH-4B is bad, but it is possible that Jordan wants something better.

YOUR PREJUDICES are a problem here, not me, you cannot bear criticism of any kind.

Great to know that, I am not saying you are anti China, I am just debating with you about this Jane's statement. Just because I like debating, does it make me think you are anti China? =). I don't mind criticism, but accepting blindly a 'Jordanian' statement without critical thinking is not thinking at all.

 

[LeGenD]

Nowhere does it mean you will discard equipment worth billions. Political considerations are only one aspect, limited options another however still it does not prove that equipment can be bought alone on mere political considerations specially when it would had been clear from day one that it would not perform as per the buyers wishes. I find it hard to believe that it was uncovered after induction and usage and not during trials.

Trials are important but only a battlefield provides real test for any type of hardware, and it is possible that Jordan is in search for something better than CH-4B.

Here is another source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ry-tries-to-sell-off-knock-off-chines-458706/

"However, its six CH-4B UAVs were reportedly delivered about two years ago. The RCAF told Shepard Media in November 2018 it was not happy with the aircraft’s performance and was looking to retire them."

 

[rott]

Strange logic. So if I am disappointed in a product. First I would tell the world that I dont like the performance and then put it up for sale. Right

You caught it right there.

 

[LeGenD]

I am not even quoting 'Chinese' sources. What has Chinese sources being biased got to do with Western sources being biased, both are still biased and different from your confidence in their trustworthiness and impartiality. It's like saying I can kill someone because China kills someone, so it's ok. =)

High quality products do exist, Huawei is a good example, Haier is a good example, DJI is a good example, you are talking from a biased lens, that's why I am not sure you are even Pakistani.


Great to know that, I am not saying you are anti China, I am just debating with you about this Jane's statement. Just because I like debating, does it make me think you are anti China? =). I don't mind criticism, but accepting blindly a 'Jordanian' statement without critical thinking is not thinking at all.

I knew about Huawei when it wasn't a household name, it used to be a supplier of networking gear in its early years - I recall Huawei-based usb devices of PTCL (returned one due to overheating issues). Huawei began to blossom when it decided to manufacture smartphones (starting with Mate series), but let us not overlook American and British technological input and collaborations in making Huawei a giant it is today.

Haier is also multi-national corporation with German technological roots.

Perhaps you are not aware but China make it compulsory for any company to provide its technological knowhow to the Chinese in order to gain access to Chinese markets. Due to this policy, numerous Chinese tech giants have surfaced in recent years. Now do not mistake this point for something negative because foreign companies were not blind (revenues + growth above everything else in the world of business).

Now they (Americans) are becoming weary of China after investing trillions of USD in China and transforming it to a global manufacturing hub. Strange people.

 

[Han Patriot]

I knew about Huawei when it wasn't a household name, it used to be a supplier of networking gear in its early years - I recall Huawei-based usb devices of PTCL (returned one due to overheating issues). Huawei began to blossom when it decided to manufacture smartphones (starting with Mate series), but let us not overlook American and British technological input and collaborations in making Huawei a giant it is today.

Nobody is denying the fact that we learned, copy, borrow, stole, and absorb so many western and even eastern technologies. The question is now, the quality and price of these products are good but yet you look at them in a biased lense. Huawei makes the best equipment nowadays, technologically superior to any competitor. You can't deny this fact. They didn't blossom from smartphones genius, it started from telecom equipment. Ppl were mocking Huawei phones 5 years back, 5 years back Huawei was already a leader in telecom gears world wide. I can tell you the problems with Cisco products too, but that's another debate. The debate today is whether Chinese products are good and affordable, if you want cheaper and lower quality we also produce those.

Haier were given 1980s german tech and failed in QC, the Germans left the venture halfway, you are comparing that to 2019 Haier QA/QC controls? Mr. Zhang is now a textbook study in Harvard because he took a hammer to smash shitty fridges to enforce quality. So please learn some history.

Perhaps you are not aware but China make it compulsory for any company to provide its technological knowhow to the Chinese in order to gain access to Chinese markets. Due to this policy, numerous Chinese tech giants have surfaced in recent years. Now do not mistake this point for something negative because foreign companies were not blind.

Now they (Americans) are becoming weary of China after investing trillions of USD in China and transforming it to a global manufacturing hub. Strange people.

Of course I am aware. it's a strategy, copy, learn, steal, buy, beg, absorb innovate. Now we are near a point where we are the source of technology because frankly speaking, except fro semiconductors and jet engine, we pretty much learnt every thing. If you think it's as simple as foreign know how, then India would be in our position today, the technology you see China produce today were created after a decade of R&D my friend. You don't see our hard work and simplify it to just 'stealing', you think reverse engineer is easy my dear Indian Bhai?

China was not created by US, nor did US invest trillions, please genius at least google. We transformed ourselves by building proper infrastructure, working hard and be competitive for the past 40 years. We created new technology and systems, and policies. We reformed out system. You sound more and more like an Indian now. =)

 

[LeGenD]

Nobody is denying the fact that we learned, copy, borrow, stole, and absorb so many western and even eastern technologies.

Your honesty is appreciated.

The question is now, the quality and price of these products are good but yet you look at them in a biased lense. Huawei makes the best equipment nowadays, technologically superior to any competitor. You can't deny this fact. They didn't blossom from smartphones genius, it started from telecom equipment. Ppl were mocking Huawei phones 5 years back, 5 years back Huawei was already a leader in telecom gears world wide. I can tell you the problems with Cisco products too, but that's another debate. The debate today is whether Chinese products are good and affordable, if you want cheaper and lower quality we also produce those.

Do you think I live in a cave? As if I do not have exposure to well-known brands such as Huawei and Haier.

Huawei is a Chinese brand only in name, it have a multi-national supply chain and deeply rely upon foreign components and software eco-system to provide quality goods.

Huawei became a household name due to its smartphones, not due to its networking gear. When I was in retailing business, I used to notice and be a part of sales of networking gear of TP-Link and D-Link in record numbers throughout Lahore (2nd largest economic zone of Pakistan). Huawei was also providing its networking gear but mainly through PTCL here.

At present, of-course, Huawei is one of the largest and most popular companies in existence.

Regardless, I am not interested in discussing Huawei here because this discussion will continue to branch-off in different directions.

And please excuse me for not singing songs about the greatness of Chinese products due to a long history of bad experiences with them. My 1 ton Haier AC failed just like any other near drainage.

Haier were given 1980s german tech and failed in QC, the Germans left the venture halfway, you are comparing that to 2019 Haier QA/QC controls? Mr. Zhang is now a textbook study in Harvard because he took a hammer to smash shitty fridges to enforce quality. So please learn some history.

Haier is good but nothing extraordinary in cutting-edge, not even close.

Of course I am aware. it's a strategy, copy, learn, steal, buy, beg, absorb innovate. Now we are near a point where we are the source of technology because frankly speaking, except fro semiconductors and jet engine, we pretty much learnt every thing. If you think it's as simple as foreign know how, then India would be in our position today, the technology you see China produce today were created after a decade of R&D my friend. You don't see our hard work and simplify it to just 'stealing', you think reverse engineer is easy my dear Indian Bhai?

China was not created by US, nor did US invest trillions, please genius at least google. We transformed ourselves by building proper infrastructure, working hard and be competitive for the past 40 years. We created new technology and systems, and policies. We reformed out system. You sound more and more like an Indian now. =)

Chinese strategic ingenuity and hard-work is not in question here, no country will prosper in the absence of these qualities, you do not need to explain to me the obvious. However, foreign investments were crucial to Chinese growth because they provided knowhow of numerous crafts to the Chinese which were instrumental in making WESTERN bloc prosperous and tech-savvy in the first place.

This is good read: https://www.jstor.org/stable/655292?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

American FDI in China at a glance: https://www.statista.com/statistics/188629/united-states-direct-investments-in-china-since-2000/

Now that China have become a superpower, it does not surprise me that Chinese nationals will try to re-write history and take full credit of their growth. Narrative-building >> Facts, Figures and Honesty.

I don't give two hoots about me sounding more and more like Indian to you because you are prejudiced anyways. Keep your insecurities with Americans to yourself.

This thread was about Jordan not being satisfied with Chinese HQ-4B UAV, and I solved the mystery in post # 35: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jordan-puts-chinese-uavs-on-sale.622144/page-3#post-11524948

 

[Turan09]

Trials are important but only a battlefield provides real test for any type of hardware, and it is possible that Jordan is in search for something better than CH-4B.

Here is another source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ry-tries-to-sell-off-knock-off-chines-458706/

"However, its six CH-4B UAVs were reportedly delivered about two years ago. The RCAF told Shepard Media in November 2018 it was not happy with the aircraft’s performance and was looking to retire them."

They just brought this drones 2 years ago?! And they Wanna get rid of them?! God what a waste... they have just throw their money to trash bin...

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

They just brought this drones 2 years ago?! And they Wanna get rid of them?! God what a waste... they have just throw their money to trash bin...

Well It's their money, Chinese CH Rainbow series UAVs and Wing Loong series UAVs have received too much orders from several dozens countries such as Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Nigeria, Algeria...... and production factories are overloaded and p roduction plan has been set to year 2024, It's can not be simple, if you through away or resell Huawei P 30pro, why would I care?!!

 

[Turan09]

Well It's their money, Chinese CH Rainbow series UAVs and Wing Loong series UAVs have received too. much orders and production factories are overloaded and peoduction plan has bee set to year 2023, It's can not be simple, if you. through away or resell Huawei P 30pro, why would I care?!

Actually China should care, this are military equipment not just some phones... And Jordan wants to get rid of them after only 2 years... Of course you just take their money, but if chinese drones reputation damages this way, no one would buy another drone from you and you might lose your market share... Of course the good thing for you is arabs dont have any alternative today, Maybe until America (Trump) starts to sale Reapers...

Reputation is an important thing in this kind of sales, lose it once, and all of your market share will be damaged.

 

[055_destroyer]

Its published by Janes. Are you doubting their credibility?

Indeed. Jane is a lapdog of American and western military media. It will not say a good thing about China military. Their report is extremely biased about China. Becos China not oriental on western.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Actually China should care, this are military equipment not just some phones... And Jordan wants to get rid of them after only 2 years... Of course you just take their money, but if chinese drones reputation damages this way, no one would buy another drone from you and you might lose your market share... Of course the good thing for you is arabs dont have any alternative today, Maybe until America (Trump) starts to sale Reapers...

Reputation is an important thing in this kind of sales, lose it once, and all of your market share will be damaged.

CH -4B are the best among its kinds and you did not even check the news sources.

So, are they disappointed with CASA-235, C130-B and Hawk-63 too?

Jordan army is selling its 29 units UAVs, suddenly , the 6 units CH-4b of CHINA are the only issue, give us Chinese a break will you?
Let us have some judgement capacity when indians or Western brainwashing medias make some fake or misleading news !

There were news saying they were under US pressure to sell it. Jordan don't even have the opportunity to use it like the Saudis and Emiratis or the Iraqis, those were all battle proven UCAVs. Not sure how you can evaluate it's capabilities when you are not even using it in battle.

I mean the Iraqi air forces and Egyptian air force, with CH and Wing Loong UAVs, they shortened the mission duration which they expected would be much longer. I am proud of those battle proved UAVs made in CHINA, no wonder Saudi Arabia alone bought more than 300 units and even the production line.

Is there any crash data available for Chinese UAVs?
Any operational constraint mentioned by other users?
These things aren't as simple as they seem. It depends on the specific mission and Jordanians expectations from the said UAVs. I think Pakistan should evaluate these drones and get them if possible.

Iraqi air force has made offer to those excellent CH -4B drones, already , I doubt Pakistani air force can win against Iraqi air force on2 purchasing those 6 CH -4B, after all , Iraq is just bordered by Jordan and their have CH UAVS special forces for years.

 

[Turan09]

CH -4B are the best among its kinds and you did not even check the news sources.

So, are they disappointed with CASA-235, C130-B and Hawk-63 too?

Jordan army is selling its 29 units UAVs, suddenly , the 6 units CH-4b of CHINA are the only issue, give us Chinese a break will you?
Let us have some judgement capacity when indians or Western brainwashing medias make some fake or misleading news !

This other pieces are old equipment so it is understandable that they are selling them... But chinese drones are only 2 years old. And Jordan selling this 2 years old drones because they are not satisfied with its performance. Btw Pakistan crashed one of your model in trials if I am not mistaken, so you see... Perfomance...