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JH7B As Buddy Refueller:----

@MastanKhan The OBOG - On Board Oxygen Generator of the JF-17 has a limit of 3 hours, or so has been mentioned on this forum. If this holds true, then a buddy refueling system can't really be that effective, or can it?
 
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@MastanKhan The OBOG - On Board Oxygen Generator of the JF-17 has a limit of 3 hours, or so has been mentioned on this forum. If this holds true, then a buddy refueling system can't really be that effective, or can it?

Hi,

Very well observed----You are right----well then at least 2 hours and 45 minutes of flight time---which is more than twice its regular 1 hour loiter time.

It is always good to throw ideas around---you never know what you have missed and what someone else can come up with----.

It is always about the small and simple things that are overlooked that makes or breaks a design.

So with the 3 hours of oxygen---then it may be assumed that the JF 17 with refuel probe is targeted to loiter around for 2 3/4 hours---. Not bad at all.

Buddy refueling has its own strength-----. It is not about how many times it can refuel a plane---it is about at what critical time and location it can refuel a plane and at what cost.

Now the interesting question would be---if the air force decides to go for a buddy refueling system----would it also want to upgrade its oxygen generation system for longer flight duration in the future.

Would it be like a stair step progression---once you reach a certain plateau---then you want to climb a little higher---.

Again---you have brought out the most crucial and important point in the discussion---you are toying with me like a teacher cajoling a student-----:lol:---so this brings us back to the drawing board again.

Now we need to look at if the 3 hours of oxygen is enough---I think that target and goal needs to be of a system that can supply oxygen for around 4--4 1/2 hours so that you can have at least 3 1/2 -- 4 hours of loiter time.

You need to understand my position---where I am coming from---I am a car salesman by profession----. I have a customer come in wanting 300 dollars a months payment---I need him to be at 400 a month---so I start at 495 a month and come down to 398 a month so that he is happy and I have done my job.

Shoot for the stars----you might get the moon---but if you shoot for the moon---it might only be the moon dust in the eyes.
 
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Just put missiles on the existing IL-76...

Take apart a usual JF-17 and put all of its components in the ilyushin....problem solved.
 
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Just put missiles on the existing IL-76...

Take apart a usual JF-17 and put all of its components in the ilyushin....problem solved.

Hi,

Eh tay phir " Munh bheda bund Gawa ho gaya ".
 
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@HRM YANG, thanks for the correction bro. Appreciate it :tup:

@MastanKhan
Hello sir. . . Hope you're doing well. I've been following your posts and discussions for quite a long time and, at times I've been your great admirer while other times, a great critic. Both silent of course but, this is my first time tagging you for a general quarry. Hope you won't mind and I won't make a fool out of myself.

My question is very simple that how do you weigh/see the procurement of a heavy deep strike aircraft in light of Indian acquisition of S-400 system?

Your thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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@HRM YANG, thanks for the correction bro. Appreciate it :tup:

@MastanKhan
Hello sir. . . Hope you're doing well. I've been following your posts and discussions for quite a long time and, at times I've been your great admirer while other times, a great critic. Both silent of course but, this is my first time tagging you for a general quarry. Hope you won't mind and I won't make a fool out of myself.

My question is very simple that how do you weigh/see the procurement of a heavy deep strike aircraft in light of Indian acquisition of S-400 system?

Your thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi,

It should not stop the procurement----but rather speed it up.
 
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I would dare to say Su-35 with its massive payload can carry enough fuel to refuel a few thirsty birds of PAF and still knock IAF ducks and crows off the sky :) :)

PAF does not operate Su-35s
Headlines aside I do not expect the PAF to acquire them
 
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It appears the PLA Navy might favor the J-16 over JH-7B; this means that the latter may not enter production unless foreign users order them.
 
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jf17a.jpg
jf17b.jpg
@MastanKhan @Indus Falcon
The IFR probe on this aircraft is pretty much useless if you have the OBOG restriction. So I'm sure the OBOG will be upgraded, otherwise they wouldn't be seriously looking at adding an IFR probe.

It appears the PLA Navy might favor the J-16 over JH-7B; this means that the latter may not enter production unless foreign users order them.
I think the whole point of considering the JH-7B was, that it does 80% of the J-16's job, at half or less, of the price of a J-16.

But would the J-16 be up for export IF the PAF wanted it, and more importantly how much would it cost per aircraft?
 
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View attachment 270448 View attachment 270449 @MastanKhan @Indus Falcon
The IFR probe on this aircraft is pretty much useless if you have the OBOG restriction. So I'm sure the OBOG will be upgraded, otherwise they wouldn't be seriously looking at adding an IFR probe.


I think the whole point of considering the JH-7B was, that it does 80% of the J-16's job, at half or less, of the price of a J-16.

But would the J-16 be up for export IF the PAF wanted it, and more importantly how much would it cost per aircraft?


Hi,

I don't see any reason why Paf cannot get this aircraft-----. The only one on hold would be the J20----but after some time---that would also be available...


Here is a nice article on the J16

Chinese Air Force Takes Delivery of New J-16 Strike Fighters
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer Posted May 7, 2014
<img typeof="foaf:Image" alt="" data-src="http://www.popsci.com/sites/all/modules/bonnier/post_social/theme/post_icon_24.png" src="http://www.popsci.com/sites/all/modules/bonnier/post_social/theme/post_icon_24.png" /> 25
By the end of April 2014, the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has taken delivery of a regiment of J-16 multirole fighters, with an expected initial operational capability in late 2014. Marrying the survivability and air combat power of the Russian Su-30MKK airframe with the Xian JH-7A's versatile arsenal, the Shenyang J-16 strike fighter is notable for its full suite of fully indigenous Chinese guided munitions. While the Su-30MKK was restricted to firing only Russian-made antiship and bunker busting bombs, the domestically designed JH-7A carried a full range of Chinese super and subsonic anti-ship missiles, air to air missiles, satellite guided bombs, cruise missiles and electronic countermeasure (ECM) jammers. However, the JH-7 did not have radar guided air to air missiles, which makes it vulnerable to other fighters common in the region such as the F-16.

J-16%201601%20-%2031.12.13.jpg
<img class="full-width" style="" typeof="foaf:Image" width="1000" height="667" alt="" data-smsrc="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....t/2014/J-16 1601 - 31.12.13.jpg?itok=nCHW0duc" data-medsrc="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....t/2014/J-16 1601 - 31.12.13.jpg?itok=L6HKl07g" data-lgsrc="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....t/2014/J-16 1601 - 31.12.13.jpg?itok=6ID-XaEj" src="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....t/2014/J-16 1601 - 31.12.13.jpg?itok=L6HKl07g" />
Enlarge
J-16

Goneless via www.top81.cn

J-16, with production number #1601 painted on the right side of the cockpit, is the first production J-16 delivered to the PLAAF. The J-16 provides China with a comprehensive aerial combat and precision bomber capability in one airframe.


Publically available photos of the J-16 are hard to come by, given the work of Chinese censors. What we do know is that despite their similar missions, the J-16 is actually built on a different Su-27 Flanker airframe than the Su-30MKK (notable differences include the J-16's cropped vertical fin tails vs. the Su-30MKK's square topped vertical fin tails). The J-16 is the strike version of the J-11BS, a twin seat version of the Su-27K. The most important upgrade to the J-16 is an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, which is more powerful than the slotted array radars that the Su-30 and JH-7A have. The AESA radar allows the J-16 to intercept enemy aircraft at longer ranges than either of its predecessors, and to attack multiple surface targets simultaneously. The AESA radar would also be datalinked to other Chinese platforms, including unmanned vehicles, to increase their situational awareness.
J-16%201612.jpg
<img class="full-width" style="" typeof="foaf:Image" width="1000" height="667" alt="" data-smsrc="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....ublic/import/2014/J-16 1612.jpg?itok=0GuFsk_m" data-medsrc="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....ublic/import/2014/J-16 1612.jpg?itok=f440rgPk" data-lgsrc="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....ublic/import/2014/J-16 1612.jpg?itok=-F4xRD5n" src="http://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci....ublic/import/2014/J-16 1612.jpg?itok=f440rgPk" />
Enlarge
J-16 Multirole Fighter

lt.cjdby.net

The J-16 strike fighter is based off of the Su-30MKK Flanker. Having a two person crew allows for a dedicated weapons sensor officer, seated in the cockpit's rear, to focus on finding targets, managing electronic warfare and controlling precision guided munitions.

This addition offers a wider set of options for Chinese military planners. Multirole fighters like the Tornado IDS, F-15E Strike Eagle and now the J-16 are well suited for the challenges of high tech conventional warfare, by combining the air combat capability of fighters with the guided munitions capability of bombers. The J-16's survivability and long range means it can match and even outnumber enemy fighters before going on to bomb their airfields, command centers and ships. And on the defensive, the J-16 can switch to a full air to air missile load to defend Chinese airspace against enemy aircraft.

View attachment 270448 View attachment 270449 @MastanKhan @Indus Falcon

The IFR probe on this aircraft is pretty much useless if you have the OBOG restriction. So I'm sure the OBOG will be upgraded, otherwise they wouldn't be seriously looking at adding an IFR probe.

?

Hi,

Please explain in layman's term----. Thank you.
 
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Hi,

Please explain in layman's term----. Thank you.

I'm not an expert on aircraft's, but this is my understanding. The OBOG - OnBoardOxygenGenerator of the JF-17 has a limitation of 3 hrs. Now the JF-17 can already stay in the air for 3 hrs with external tanks, so what good is an IFR probe?

Obviously, I'm missing something here, that being, either the OBOG does not have a limitation of 3 hrs. OR the JF-17 will get an upgraded OBOG, with a greater capacity with the IFR probe.

Hope I've made sense.
 
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I'm not an expert on aircraft's, but this is my understanding. The OBOG - OnBoardOxygenGenerator of the JF-17 has a limitation of 3 hrs. Now the JF-17 can already stay in the air for 3 hrs with external tanks, so what good is an IFR probe?

Obviously, I'm missing something here, that being, either the OBOG does not have a limitation of 3 hrs. OR the JF-17 will get an upgraded OBOG, with a greater capacity with the IFR probe.

Hope I've made sense.

Hi,

Seems like the loiter time for the JF 17 during strike mission is around 45 minutes to an hour----around 400-500 KM and in air superiority mode around 700-750 km.

If it is 3 hrs of loiter time---then God bless the PAF---I would offer my apology to everyone that I offended
 
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Hi,

Seems like the loiter time for the JF 17 during strike mission is around 45 minutes to an hour----around 400-500 KM and in air superiority mode around 700-750 km.

If it is 3 hrs of loiter time---then God bless the PAF---I would offer my apology to everyone that I offended

Well I could be wrong but a OBOG restriction of 3 hours means, the pilot only has 3hrs of Oxygen, or he flies below 10,000ft. SO a loiter time of 3hrs might not necessarily hold true, it could be less than that, you have to take into account transit time to station as well.
 
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I think there is difference between Oxygen Regulation System Vs. On Board Oxygen Generating (OBOG) system, one uses bottle oxygen the other generates it

First batch blk 1 had 3 hours oxygen based (bottle) regulator while block II has new environmental system including OBOG (as i understand)


Food for thoughts

"French Oxygen Regulation System" vs new environmental system including OBOG\

http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/com..._Brochures-documents/Life_Support_Systems.pdf

JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool | Page 44

PAC Environment Control System and Oxygen System
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra - JF-17 Thunder Aircraft
 
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I think there is difference between Oxygen Regulation System Vs. On Board Oxygen Generating (OBOG) system, one uses bottle oxygen the other generates it

First batch blk 1 had 3 hours oxygen based (bottle) regulator while block II has new environmental system including OBOG (as i understand)


Food for thoughts

"French Oxygen Regulation System" vs new environmental system including OBOG
Abey aik chuut main dalnain waley Indian kabhi aik black chuut se Bahar daal ke Dekh. Chuut Kay nai bhosri Ka . . . .
 
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