JF17 Thunder's New More potent superior Engine

[Donatello]

thnks to russia for stoping RD-93 to Pakistan...atleast now we will have something more powerfull then that of before.

Not only it helps us and China, but they really killed their own Engine industry.


So now if JF-17 gets western avionics, MIG 29 is history. Before with RD-93 in the helms of JF-17 would have earned Russians some cash....but now even that is gone!


All thanks to Indians!

 

[Nahraf]

The lesson for Pakistan is to manufacture/assemble all parts of JF-17. The WS-13 engine when it is ready should be assembled in Pakistan with a license with transfer of technology.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I think you've not gone through JF-17 thread PAF plans to completely assemble/manufacture majority of parts/components avionics in Pakistan in coming years.

 

[Indian-Devil]

Not only it helps us and China, but they really killed their own Engine industry.


So now if JF-17 gets western avionics, MIG 29 is history. Before with RD-93 in the helms of JF-17 would have earned Russians some cash....but now even that is gone!


All thanks to Indians!

And would you care to explain, how you concluded this? You donot even know what are the capabilities of upgraded Mig-29 (SMT Level). But you are much sure abt the capabilities of some fighter jet whose upgrade details are not even clear , which never seen a single combat.

Well if you simply wana conclude that Mig-29 will be history if JF-17 gets western avoinics, only because Paf will be operating this, then good for you to be in ur dreams.

 

[khurasaan1]

then good for you to be in ur dreams.

Yea...but u cant even see those dreams...

 

[Nahraf]

I think you've not gone through JF-17 thread PAF plans to completely assemble/manufacture majority of parts/components avionics in Pakistan in coming years.

My point is that we have to accelerate the building of assembling and manufacturing facilities in Pakistan. You should not assume things.

 

[Nahraf]

Not only it helps us and China, but they really killed their own Engine industry.
So now if JF-17 gets western avionics, MIG 29 is history. Before with RD-93 in the helms of JF-17 would have earned Russians some cash....but now even that is gone!
All thanks to Indians!

Russia would use the facilities of RD-93 to manufacture new powerful engines. The only thing they would lose is the revenue from RD-93 which was pure profit since they have already recuperated the investments made during the development of this engine.

 

[SBD-3]

Just few Thoughts
RD-93 is definately more mature and PAF seems very happy with RD-93 performance...WS-13 on the other hand, is new born baby.....Given the two engines....PAF would definately like go for more reliable and matured engine i.e. RD-93. . regarding some members commenting on Russian blockade as being the reason...they should know that WS-13 is almost a decade old project in progress since 2000 IMHO, so Russian blockade decision would not be a reason for WS-13 as it was an engine primarily envisaged for JFT. I've read somewhere (may be over some threads here) that PAF is looking for RD-93M (an improved version) for powering Thunder......after all you can't put you're multimillion plane on the mercy of an immature engine.......Given the aversive nature of PAF, I think PAF wont mount WS-13 on its fighters uless it outperforms RD-93 or maybe expected RD-93M (just my 2 cents)

 

[Quwa]

I've read somewhere (may be over some threads here) that PAF is looking for RD-93M (an improved version) for powering Thunder......after all you can't put you're multimillion plane on the mercy of an immature engine.......Given the aversive nature of PAF, I think PAF wont mount WS-13 on its fighters uless it outperforms RD-93 or maybe expected RD-93M (just my 2 cents)

Yes...in fact, PAF was pleased with RD-93 and according to Usman Ansari (a credible source) it is interested in the RD-93M - basically a variant of the RD-33MK. It is possible that RD-93M will have higher thrust than RD-93 as well as possibly TVC. We'll see what happens, but the biggest advantage of WS-13 is that there would always be something to fall back on in case something fails...

That said, acquiring RD-93M might open some interesting doors with Russia - especially if IAF selects a Western supplier for the MMRCA. When the FC-20 program begins gather some momentum, the Russians might step up and offer the MiG-35 (or variant). Not saying that PAF would respond warmly to such an offer, but then again, it depends on whats on the table (local manufacturing? better deal on the engine? tie-in S-400?).

 

[niaz]

According to what I have read in the press, I have serious doubts that Russians will let PAF have the RD93M engines. India will surely object and Russians wouldn't want to displease India.

 

[Luftwaffe]

nahraf...go through JF-17 thread ok?

 

[SBD-3]

According to what I have read in the press, I have serious doubts that Russians will let PAF have the RD93M engines. India will surely object and Russians wouldn't want to displease India.

Yes indeed Indians will try their level best for PAF not to have this..but having said this...PAF will no be dealing directly with Russia but rather through a more influential intermediary China. Eventhough Russians were very harsh towards China due to J-11 affair but finally they had to extend a warm hand towards China cuz after loosing Indian market to US or Europe, They can't afford to lose their biggest Client China. So I think If China is interested, we may see RD-93M whether Russians or Indians like it or not

 

[SBD-3]

.That said, acquiring RD-93M might open some interesting doors with Russia - especially if IAF selects a Western supplier for the MMRCA. When the FC-20 program begins gather some momentum, the Russians might step up and offer the MiG-35 (or variant). Not saying that PAF would respond warmly to such an offer, but then again, it depends on whats on the table (local manufacturing? better deal on the engine? tie-in S-400?).

Russians offering us MIG-35?....I dont think so we need to be that positive....even if they do, I suspect PAF will not respond positively as we already have a handsome (infact more than handsome) numbers of MRF which Mig-35 is....if PAF goes with expected ToPT for FC-20, I dont think PAF would like to take the headache of building more infrastructure for a new project i.e. Mig-35. Engine Manufacturing, well i don't know whether Russians have offered such to any other countries (not even India and China) so I wont place my hopes on this option as well....and lastly S-400, No to that too as Russians are hesitant to provide this prime system to even China...so where does Pakistan Stand, I leave it upto you

 

[Quwa]

According to what I have read in the press, I have serious doubts that Russians will let PAF have the RD93M engines. India will surely object and Russians wouldn't want to displease India.

Here's the thing...there are no press reports about RD-93M (i.e. upgraded RD-93), this was solely reported by Usman Ansari or at best, is a PakDef thing only. Yes the Indians have an issue with RD-93 being sold to PAF, but time and time and time and time and time and time again the PAF said the engines are not a problem and the Russians agreed to sell. Basically what is happening is that the Indians are beating a dead horse (engine rumours) in order to scuttle JF-17's export hopes...but that too will fail once WS-13 is fully available.

Russians offering us MIG-35?....I dont think so we need to be that positive....even if they do, I suspect PAF will not respond positively as we already have a handsome (infact more than handsome) numbers of MRF which Mig-35 is....if PAF goes with expected ToPT for FC-20, I dont think PAF would like to take the headache of building more infrastructure for a new project i.e. Mig-35. Engine Manufacturing, well i don't know whether Russians have offered such to any other countries (not even India and China) so I wont place my hopes on this option as well....and lastly S-400, No to that too as Russians are hesitant to provide this prime system to even China...so where does Pakistan Stand, I leave it upto you

Firstly, an export variant of the S-400 is being developed but won't be available for at least another few years. Its a matter of actually having the money and illustrating the fact that other viable options are available. Were you around to see the kind of beating I'd get in 2003-2004 when I said PAF could get Block-52+? You decide.

Secondly, the MiG-35 (if offered) would be in contention to the FC-20: Simply put, FC-20 is a bigger fish than even the F-16s and depending on the circumstances, PAF can acquire up to 150 FC-20. The Russians aren't going to let such a lucrative possibility slide that easily, especially if India plans to reduce its reliance on the Russians by going Western for MMRCA. The technical merits are on the table...engine commonality with JF-17; solid high performance fighter when appropriately equipped (not an issue for PAF); and fleet potential 120~150 would include a local manufacturing offer. In fact, a bunch of Indians once reported that PAF officials were talking to the MiG-delegate about MiG-35 at some air show, and were noted to have shown a lot of keen interest.

As for engines, the Russians won't leak everything, but when an air force operates 300 to 400 fighters using the same engine, the client state can certainly make a decisive case. Even if the Russians released up to a limited point, that is still a gain and form of contribution to the indigenous R&D - i.e. something to work with. At the end of the day, its about making a concrete case and coming up with the money, if accomplished, the Russians aren't that much of a problem.

 

[Super Falcon]

what about the thrust vectoring in that engine to give JF 17 more faster turn rate how many JF 17 in PAF now fully operational