JF17 Thunder's New More potent superior Engine

[Donatello]

I wouldn't say that just yet as Sukhoi has made the PAK-FA, which is in the class of the F-22 and uses the same engines and avionics as the Mig-29 OVT. Also the PAK-FA is being sold to India and possibly Iran. See what the USA is doing to Pakistan, only ripping it off with knock off avionics which are actually very primitive. See the incident of the F-117 nighthawk that got shot down over the USSR by a basic soviet missile, search: "Stealth F-117 destroyed by 1956 USSR technology" on google. For further readings, search "1960 U-2 incident", also on google search. Also, the Russians were masters of the aerospace industry for decades and even now, so give them some slack, did Pakistan send a man into space or make a space shuttle, I don't think so. So stop being soo Pro American and get your facts straight.

USA rips off everyone. But Pakistan is no longer dependent on them. We are getting what we get from their OWN cash, for WOT. Though Pakistan deserves way more than that.


PAK-FA going to Iran? Well, we heard about S-300 SAMs going to them, which now is kinda itself in trouble. Forget PAK-FAs and that too in 2017.


About Russian Aerospace industry, i would praise them and put them on a level as professional as any western, Indian, Pakistani and Chinese. The problem is, after the cold war ended, there was no use of spending money. Actually they didn't have any. So the funds dried up.

As an engineer i have learned a lot about Russian-Soviet engineers/scientists. Brilliant, from electromagnetism to aerospace to nuclear. The problem is funding of research. So it will take time for them to regain.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

How can someone place chinese, pakistanis and indians on the same level as the russian engineers---whereas russians are originators of many a technologies---the other three just can barely make copies.

I believe someone is giving too much credit to their engineering understanding capabilities.

 

[AUz]

And What about Pakistani Engineers/Scientists??? Can we be at the same level as Russian Engineers may be after 20 years?? What is the problem?? Funds??? Education system or what??

 

[ANG]

Hi, currently Pakistan does not have the funds, the equipment, R&D, and metallurgy to come up to the level of Russian or Western aerospace standards. Russia and the west have been building planes since pre-WW II times. Pakistan is assembling the JF-17, and in 2 years time it will only manufacture 58% of the JF-17 and not the engine. Pakistan has made a lot of progress in the avionics.

Pakistan's current lethargic economic growth cannot sustain any heavy investment in this type of industry. With the specter of default looming over Pakistan's debt obligations, I do not think they have the luxury to spend too much. Take care.

 

[Terminigger]

Thanks everyone for supporting my point. Personally, the Klimov RD-93 would be a better option due to the following reasons:

1) Soviet-built engines can start at sub zero temperatures (more durable then the Chinese)

2)The RD-93 is 400 kg lighter than the WS series engine, thes more speed and range for the JF-17

3) Thrust to Weight ratio is greater than the WS series engine

BTW, I am a Mech Engineering student, so I know what I am talking about.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Thanks everyone for supporting my point. Personally, the Klimov RD-93 would be a better option due to the following reasons:

1) Soviet-built engines can start at sub zero temperatures (more durable then the Chink ****)

2)The RD-93 is 400 kg lighter than the WS series engine, thes more speed and range for the JF-17

3) Thrust to Weight ratio is greater than the WS series engine

BTW, I am a Mech Engineering student, so I know what I am talking about.

First of all, the real specifications, the official specifications for WS-13 engine have not been told, only speculative, rumored specifications, thus based on rumored specification figures, we can't compare the WS-13 & RD-93 engines.

And as for your point 2 & 3, if we match the current available figures of both engines, there isn't much difference, not as much as you just said. 400KG difference, don't think so.

And as for point 1, well can't say till we see the real product in action.

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

How can someone place chinese, pakistanis and indians on the same level as the russian engineers---whereas russians are originators of many a technologies---the other three just can barely make copies.

I believe someone is giving too much credit to their engineering understanding capabilities.

In that case the Austrian and Germans will own everybody. For the fact that many fundamental scientific discoveries came from that region, circa 1900s to 1940s.


No need to be sarcastic for not everyone achieves same fame in their life.

The designer of the legendary F-16 jet passed away recently, how many people do you really think knew about the guy?

 

[MastanKhan]

In that case the Austrian and Germans will own everybody. For the fact that many fundamental scientific discoveries came from that region, circa 1900s to 1940s.


No need to be sarcastic for not everyone achieves same fame in their life.

The designer of the legendary F-16 jet passed away recently, how many people do you really think knew about the guy?

Hi,

The germans do own everyone in engineering designs----look at all tyhe missile designs----they are still within the same parameter than those of the ww11.

You see----you engineering prowess has to show at the grass roots level---your local machine shops and engineering wokrs need to come up with ideas of brilliance in some form of machine which has some practical purpose---and this thing is not happening.

You want to talk about german technology---have you read the news about the formula type Audi race car----it is a diesel---beating the pants of the other race cars RUNNING ON GAS / PETROL ENGINES---.

 

[ANG]

Hi, and not to digress from this topic, but the US and Soviet missile programs were run by captured Nazi/German rocket scientists. German engineering is the best relative to anyone else. If I recall correctly, Germany is the number one exporter in the world.

Pakistan just does not have the funds, resources, skilled personel, metallurgy knowledge and heavy industry capacity to produce a turbofan engine from scratch. This is even if they are given the designs to simply produce an engine. Moreover given its dismal economic scenario, it should not be spending money on this.

I personally hope the WS-13 engine does power the JF-17. I believe China is more reliable than Russia, but that is my personal opinion. No other country will supply Pakistan with this type of technology other that China. Take care.

 

[flyinghawkwings]

USA is still the best at engineering.

Germany, Russia, many European countries, Japan are a close second.

China, Taiwan, SKorea are a close third. All three groups should be called 1A, 1B, and 1C. They are all techologically advanced countries.

China eventually will be the leader because they have a huge population full of high IQ people.

Regarding Pakistan and India, they are probably behind these countries. They have potential but until these countries do it, it's not proven.

 

[cw2005]

USA is still the best at engineering.

Germany, Russia, many European countries, Japan are a close second.

China, Taiwan, SKorea are a close third. All three groups should be called 1A, 1B, and 1C. They are all techologically advanced countries.

China eventually will be the leader because they have a huge population full of high IQ people.

Regarding Pakistan and India, they are probably behind these countries. They have potential but until these countries do it, it's not proven.

I would rather say the USA is still the best at military engineering. Just look at how they use their money, resources and other packages to attract talents to USA and become American Engineers. You will likely find engineers from Pakistan, India, China as well as from Germany, UK etc. working in high and responsible places in American defence industries. At the end, Money, Research Facilities, Opportunity to perform and Career advancement do matter.

 

[flyinghawkwings]

We were comparing countries, not individuals. Sure, there are foreign engineers who work in America at American companies but that has nothing to do with the discussion.

You can make the case that Pakistani and Indian engineers have done well in America but how does that help Pakistan or India? Unless they all migrate back to their homelands, it doesn't help these countries very much.

 

[MastanKhan]

We were comparing countries, not individuals. Sure, there are foreign engineers who work in America at American companies but that has nothing to do with the discussion.

You can make the case that Pakistani and Indian engineers have done well in America but how does that help Pakistan or India? Unless they all migrate back to their homelands, it doesn't help these countries very much.

Hi,

No man is an island by himself---pakistani and indian engineers are just cogs in the wheel.

You see the problem with pakistan is that nobody takes pride in workmanship---that is the quality of workmanship---the fixups are half hearted and half ar-sed.

The private factor has to come forward---with a locally produced high end product---if they cannot do that then make the quality of assembled products better than their point of origin---.

Example being----honda accord----the ones made in the U S A are of higher quality of workmanshp and finishing than those coming from japan.

Even pride of workmanship in local assembly is not there---.

Engineering is not only a skill-----ENGINEERING TELLS YOU ABOUT TRUE THE CHARACTER of the engineer---the designer--the producer---the nation---andf its people---you ask why----because in an engineering design and the end product---the soul---mind---the true thinking---the character of the man comes out and reflects in the end product.

 

[cw2005]

We were comparing countries, not individuals. Sure, there are foreign engineers who work in America at American companies but that has nothing to do with the discussion.

You can make the case that Pakistani and Indian engineers have done well in America but how does that help Pakistan or India? Unless they all migrate back to their homelands, it doesn't help these countries very much.

My main point is:
1. Improve a country's economy
2. Invest in research
3. Provide chance for your talents
4. Provide career advancement.

Then you may attract and keep the good ones. Might as well even attract talents from other parts of the world to work in your country.

Once you set your target, anything that might brings you closer to the target, do it.

One good example - China. Deng knew it, he set the goal and executed it. The Chinese technologies in Military application advance quickly because China recruited engineers from former Soviet Union, bought technologies when it availabe and invest heavily in R&D. If China did not reform its economy, probably it is still producing J7s.

 

[Stealth_fighter]

Hi,

No man is an island by himself---pakistani and indian engineers are just cogs in the wheel.

You see the problem with pakistan is that nobody takes pride in workmanship---that is the quality of workmanship---the fixups are half hearted and half ar-sed.

The private factor has to come forward---with a locally produced high end product---if they cannot do that then make the quality of assembled products better than their point of origin---.

Example being----honda accord----the ones made in the U S A are of higher quality of workmanshp and finishing than those coming from japan.

Even pride of workmanship in local assembly is not there---.

Engeneering is not only a skill-----ENGINEERING TELLS YOU ABOUT TRUE THE CHARACTER of the engineer---the designer--the producer---the nation---andf its people---you ask why----because in an engineering design and the end product---the soul---mind---the true thinking---the character of the man comes out and reflects in the end product.

True saying sir...