JF-17 trumps the Viper in certain domains

[Mrc]

You have raised a number of points here. Though I am no expert on nuclear war related issues, I think two points are relevant here:

1. India is a massive country. At this time I do not think PAF or PA can hope to cover it all the bases for the above scenario to be realistically possible.

2. While both Pakistan and India are growing their nuclear stockpile, there would come a point when it would be unthinkable to attempt a pre-emptive attack, since enough of the devices would escape destruction that a retaliatory attack would be devastating to own population.

What is not covered with cruise can be covered with ballistics with tactical

Its an un thinkable scenario but if it does happen... we need to strive to win... as surviving alone is not acceptable...

We need to keep it real... war happens when weakness is perceived

 

[Chak Bamu]

What is not covered with cruise can be covered with ballistics with tactical

Its an un thinkable scenario but if it does happen... we need to strive to win... as surviving alone is not acceptable...

We need to keep it real... war happens when weakness is perceived

I think that threat of massive damage to enemy should be enough. Otherwise this competition is a bottom-less pit. Just see how many nukes China has in comparison to USA & Russia. Threat is enough, because even in a weaker position Pakistan can inflict unacceptable damage to India.

 

[CriticalThought]

Hi,

You had an extremely 'dumb' response to the oil leak issue of the JF17---and you had even dumber response to the heavies and how they maybe utilized---.

That comment of yours regarding the oil bearing leak---that was beyond stupid youngman---specially when an experienced poster in that area was defining it with an example---.

I mean to ask---is there a limit to your stupidity----when a poster who has worked on airplanes is explaining the science behind it---and you are excercizing your " personal ' explanations about the issue---?

You are clueless about modern aerial warfare.

 

[Dazzler]

You usually do what you expect the least!!!!


I hope it's Turkish!!!!!!

I am afraid it is not, rather it is Spanish, from Indra.

After all, nothing could suit the LPI capable ALR-400 RWR onboard the jf-17 better than this guy.

Say hello to the ALQ-500P advanced multimode ecm pod.

https://www.indracompany.com/sites/default/files/indra_alq_500p_v_1017_ing_b.pdf

 

[Windjammer]

Credit as per title.

 

[war&peace]

You have raised a number of points here. Though I am no expert on nuclear war related issues, I think two points are relevant here:

1. India is a massive country. At this time I do not think PAF or PA can hope to cover it all the bases for the above scenario to be realistically possible.

2. While both Pakistan and India are growing their nuclear stockpile, there would come a point when it would be unthinkable to attempt a pre-emptive attack, since enough of the devices would escape destruction that a retaliatory attack would be devastating to own population.

Aside from the above two considerations, I think that war with India is unthinkable (and for India war with Pakistan is also unthinkable). The most we need to do is to have them understand that we would do immense and unacceptable damage if they attack Pakistan - deterrence in short. For that we do not necessarily need heavies. JF-17 & F-16 are quite enough when backed with force multipliers & missiles. We can work on a 5th generation acquisition as our resources allow. Lusting after heavies would break our back.

These are all nice points but not realistic because "unthinkable" has every chance of happening because a few miscalculation on India's the part who have always been the aggressor be it 65 or 71. Right now india is on shopping spree and buying all fancy toys including S-400 ADS, when India has procured enough of those in addition deploying its own ABM and acquisition of two squadrons of Rafale, India will fancy its chances especially if some incident happens on its land.

 

[CriticalThought]

These are all nice points but not realistic because "unthinkable" has every chance of happening because a few miscalculation on India's the part who have always been the aggressor be it 65 or 71. Right now india is on shopping spree and buying all fancy toys including S-400 ADS, when India has procured enough of those in addition deploying its own ABM and acquisition of two squadrons of Rafale, India will fancy its chances especially if some incident happens on its land.

And so the logical step for us is to create an impregnable fortress of air defence against both aircraft and missiles. Our troubles lie both in East AND in West and we cannot have enough LO heavy fighters.

 

[ziaulislam]

Very good but F-16 can use JASSM for stand off weapons with range of 370~1000 km What JF-17 still lacking.

This is related to PAF falcons

 

[khanasifm]

I am afraid it is not, rather it is Spanish, from Indra.

After all, nothing could suit the LPI capable ALR-400 RWR onboard the jf-17 better than this guy.

Say hello to the ALQ-500P advanced multimode ecm pod.

https://www.indracompany.com/sites/default/files/indra_alq_500p_v_1017_ing_b.pdf

I think block iii may do away with external pod base ew eqpt and like block 52 an internal jammer is carried like the bludge on b model jf at base of vertical tale

 

[MastanKhan]

This is related to PAF falcons

Hi,

That is only available to the USAF I believe---any other air force that can use it---plz share---.

 

[war&peace]

And so the logical step for us is to create an impregnable fortress of air defence against both aircraft and missiles. Our troubles lie both in East AND in West and we cannot have enough LO heavy fighters.

I would say that if the nation has to, literally, eat grass, we need to get an ADS no less than S-400 and in numbers that covers the whole country plus a credible air capability to strike targets deep inside the enemy territory. A strong conventional capability adds a thick layer to the deterrence and raises the threshold for going nuclear. It is easy for some so called planners to offload all the responsibility on strategic force but believe you me after press the red button there is no going back... It has to be all or nothing.

I think that threat of massive damage to enemy should be enough. Otherwise this competition is a bottom-less pit. Just see how many nukes China has in comparison to USA & Russia. Threat is enough, because even in a weaker position Pakistan can inflict unacceptable damage to India.

Sir but threat perception is a variable and not a constant. It evolves as per the circumstances. And as the evergreen saying goes "offence is the best defence". Q: which country we should learn from? Ans: Israel.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Sir but threat perception is a variable and not a constant. It evolves as per the circumstances. And as the evergreen saying goes "offence is the best defence". Q: which country we should learn from? Ans: Israel.

We can look at many different countries to learn how they deal with their security challenges. But we have our own particular circumstances, which are unique.

Israel differs a lot from Pakistan, and therefore it does not offer a suitable analogy. For starters, it is a country with high HDI, much higher GDP / person, surrounded by unfriendly states, mandatory army service for all citizens, strong and well-developed defense industry, and more... How can Pakistan emulate Israel? I do not see it happening.

Pakistan's biggest challenge is very low HDI and results are for everyone to see. Taliban, proliferation of seminaries offering parochial & sectarian education, low growth, atmosphere of intolerance, & many other challenges are precisely because of low HDI. While Pakistan has to grapple with these and many more challenges, India has been on a higher growth trajectory primarily because of its superior HDI & stable institutions. If you find any other reason for this disparity, please let me know. If Pakistan continues to ignore this disparity and educated people continue to support unhealthy, anti-system internal dynamics, then it soon would not matter what Pakistan does with its nuclear program or what successes PAF / PAC chalks up in JF-17 program. Pakistan would be relegated to a secondary status and lower importance within South Asia. To correct this balance, Pakistan can not push India off its growth track to pull them back - the consequences would be severe. Pakistan would have to improve internal dynamics and try to attain a higher growth trajectory - neither of which would be possible without investment in HDI (schools, colleges, universities, research institutions, better social services, & quick adoption of industry best practices across the board). Lusting after weapons for the sake of security would not help Pakistan improve and grow. The gap would only widen with time.

Pakistan has to choose stability, institutional maturity, & investment in HDI. That is the only hope for future. Buying expensive weapons would keep Pakistan from making these choices. Security obsession would push Pakistan closer to North Korea than Israel.

 

[CriticalThought]

We can look at many different countries to learn how they deal with their security challenges. But we have our own particular circumstances, which are unique.

Israel differs a lot from Pakistan, and therefore it does not offer a suitable analogy. For starters, it is a country with high HDI, much higher GDP / person, surrounded by unfriendly states, mandatory army service for all citizens, strong and well-developed defense industry, and more... How can Pakistan emulate Israel? I do not see it happening.

Pakistan's biggest challenge is very low HDI and results are for everyone to see. Taliban, proliferation of seminaries offering parochial & sectarian education, low growth, atmosphere of intolerance, & many other challenges are precisely because of low HDI. While Pakistan has to grapple with these and many more challenges, India has been on a higher growth trajectory primarily because of its superior HDI & stable institutions. If you find any other reason for this disparity, please let me know. If Pakistan continues to ignore this disparity and educated people continue to support unhealthy, anti-system internal dynamics, then it soon would not matter what Pakistan does with its nuclear program or what successes PAF / PAC chalks up in JF-17 program. Pakistan would be relegated to a secondary status and lower importance within South Asia. To correct this balance, Pakistan can not push India off its growth track to pull them back - the consequences would be severe. Pakistan would have to improve internal dynamics and try to attain a higher growth trajectory - neither of which would be possible without investment in HDI (schools, colleges, universities, research institutions, better social services, & quick adoption of industry best practices across the board). Lusting after weapons for the sake of security would not help Pakistan improve and grow. The gap would only widen with time.

Pakistan has to choose stability, institutional maturity, & investment in HDI. That is the only hope for future. Buying expensive weapons would keep Pakistan from making these choices. Security obsession would push Pakistan closer to North Korea than Israel.

Let me rephrase this. If any terrorist incident happens in India, they have the sword of CSD on our heads. Thus, they are enjoying unrestricted economic growth and prosperity. On the other hand, India sponsors terrorism within Pakistan, and we lamely bleat about 'fixing our own house'. This is cowardice and insecurity on our part. And we are so inept, we couldn't even fix our own house, thus needing to invite China to fix it for us. Let this be clear: no shining knight in armor is going to come in and fix your condition for you. Our problem is mental slavery and limited foresight, NOT madressahs and whatever else you have constructed as perceived problems. More than madressash spreading intolerance, we are at risk from politics of linguistics, provinces, ethnicities. By the way, who started the discussion on Madressash being the source of trouble? Oh, I remember, it was America in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. And now they have the likes of you, parroting their agenda and arguing for their cause. The way the country is being run shows utter lack of self-respect, dignity, and leadership.

 

[MastanKhan]

I would say that if the nation has to, literally, eat grass, we need to get an ADS no less than S-400 and in numbers that covers the whole country plus a credible air capability to strike targets deep inside the enemy territory. A strong conventional capability adds a thick layer to the deterrence and raises the threshold for going nuclear. It is easy for some so called planners to offload all the responsibility on strategic force but believe you me after press the red button there is no going back... It has to be all or nothing.


Sir but threat perception is a variable and not a constant. It evolves as per the circumstances. And as the evergreen saying goes "offence is the best defence". Q: which country we should learn from? Ans: Israel.

Hi,

Retaliation can be instantaneous to a certain act that the opponent may think has crossed the threshold of " patience " or has damaged their integrity---their honor and dignity---.

As I have stated many a time---" anyone who state that there will be no war between the two countries and has prepared as such---is the enemy of pakistan ".

A war may not happen is a different thing----than it will not happen---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I think that threat of massive damage to enemy should be enough. Otherwise this competition is a bottom-less pit. Just see how many nukes China has in comparison to USA & Russia. Threat is enough, because even in a weaker position Pakistan can inflict unacceptable damage to India.

They believe in conjectures not the TRUTH....