JF-17 Thunder production facility at Pakistan Aeronautical complex Karma

[Pak_Sher]

Pakistan needs to train in the aeronautics and aviation, so we can have solid engineering programs in all universities of the country. Chinese are sincere and have helped Pakistan develop many defence capabilities.

 

[luckyyy]

deleted.......

 

[muse]

Pakistan needs to train in the aeronautics and aviation, so we can have solid engineering programs in all universities of the country. Chinese are sincere and have helped Pakistan develop many defence capabilities.

This why we have consistently argued for building more and more schools, with specialist and advanced training, and mandatory advanced degrees as a requirement for promotion at the Major level or civilian equivalent, for all, everyone involved with development of defense related technologies and industrial capabilities.

The Navy needs uniformed personnel who can not only maintain engines but design them, and manage the manufacturing of them, can design and manage the manufacturing of sensors - The same with the army, in particular with propulsion, and technologies that some may not have thought would be part of the Pakistani arsenal - the same for the Air Force.

It is conceivable that officers with such training will have a second career in the defense production facilities.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan has a weak Educational System

10% creme of crop always shines , out of which 5% goes to Middle east , and 3 % goes to US/Canada/Europe 2% stays in Pakistan.

But the other 90% , is dull as a goat they can't even write a letter for leave of absence from school , or articulate their opinion

The weakness is CRITICAL between classes grade 7-10 , this sector has the worse available teachers for this age group , so the students that emerge are also sub par

Most Parents the middle class ones , hire private instructors for their kids during this phase but the other poorer students do not have this luxury so they end up failing and repeating over and over or giving up.

Finally the emerged 2% that stays in Pakistan the Universities in Pakistan

a) Do not have 1-2 Million USD funding needed to build students for future
b) They do not have equipment
c) There is no system where aluminis contribute to University life after graduation
d) Lack of grand vision is missing


People who go into Aeronautical Engineering, need places of learning where there is funding
where they can experiment their ideas , where they have ability to read books and libraries where they can find other research by other universities.

1) There is lack of leadership quality development
2) Lack of courses that teach design and engineering
3) Also lack of local firms that give them jobs with this degree/education

Why would any kid want to have this degree if they know they will not get a job in Pakistan ?


We do not have a grand vision - out mentality is

a) Ah our kids can speak fluent english wah wah ...
b) Oh our kids can play cricket wah wah ...
c) Our kids is going to become a doctor or an engineer (just two professions)
d) Ok worse come to worse he can be IT person

Untill we understand importance of designers , architects , and Research and development (Aeronautical engineering) - we will have trouble

Musharaf's approach to bring back pakistanis to Pakistan is the right approach - hire back CEO and leaders

The other day I read in Pakistan there are 1-2 Neurological Specialists , can you imagine 180,000,000 (180 MILLION PEOPLE) and just 1-2 specialist

 

[Jango]

army does train designers and such if i am not wrong, my father was an aeronautical engineer in the army aviation corps and he was at kamra and UET karachi. He said hat there were some designers there who had some bright ideas with little faults. But a start is a start though

 

[Black Widow]

Actually,pak and china design jf17 together and it was a joint effort from pac and cac . It is the same with we learned a lot from the PAF's experience using F16 .

Totally wrong: I am following PDF since last couple of years, In no thread I found that Pakistani engineers contributed in FC1.. some report suggest the design is obtained from Scrap russian project... I don't want to go into this..

I do agree It was a good learning for Pakistani engineers. They must have learn lot of things bout developing aircraft, I also hope that in future they will come with something better... But as per today There is no contribution of Pakistani engineers in FC1. Where as Chinese engineers , they are very good in learning, I am sure that they have learnt lot of things from F16 or any American technology which is in pakistan..

To all indians remember. Aircraft has three major parts.
1. Engine.
2. Airframe.
3. Avionics.

Now all indian should remember that after 30 years and billions spent what your LCA has.
1. Engine= American.
2. Airframe=French assistance.
3. Avionics= Isreali Radar, French, Russian and so on.

Now what we have is almost same but in less time and with less money spent. So whose more successful i think nuetral people can decide better.

Lets not make is LCA vs FC1 thread... Assume what you have written here is right, then the question is "Where it (LCA) is made?" Isn't LCA is developed in India??? There are many subsystem of LCA where Idnian engineers contributed and mastered it.. If you want to discuss more, lets come in LCA thread...

@topic: I still don understand what this topic all about, I can't understand chinese, and no one here talking on topic... can some one please summarize it for me...

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

This why we have consistently argued for building more and more schools, with specialist and advanced training, and mandatory advanced degrees as a requirement for promotion at the Major level or civilian equivalent, for all, everyone involved with development of defense related technologies and industrial capabilities.

The Navy needs uniformed personnel who can not only maintain engines but design them, and manage the manufacturing of them, can design and manage the manufacturing of sensors - The same with the army, in particular with propulsion, and technologies that some may not have thought would be part of the Pakistani arsenal - the same for the Air Force.

It is conceivable that officers with such training will have a second career in the defense production facilities.

- - And I think we have only one university for aeronautics and that is CAE (College of Aeronautical Engineering). And for Navy we only have PNEC (Pakistan Naval Engineering College). Don't know about CAE but as far as PNEC is concerned; it knows only to maintain and repair marine techs. They don't have the manufacturing stuff in them right now.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Chinese are proud to show off their designed a/c FC1 being assembled in pac. Kudos to China

Aaahhhhh, the typical Indian mentality.

Before commenting on us, kindly see to your own products and then comment.

 

[muse]

- - And I think we have only one university for aeronautics and that is CAE (College of Aeronautical Engineering). And for Navy we only have PNEC (Pakistan Naval Engineering College). Don't know about CAE but as far as PNEC is concerned; it knows only to maintain and repair marine techs. They don't have the manufacturing stuff in them right now.

Our position was that begin with a small number and really, we just don't have that many qualified to begin with, anyway, begin with a small number, get them to a Phd level, and be fair, not all of these will want that for themselves and may be content at the Masters level, have them train train 4 times the number of instructors --- we can have thousands in time but we don't need to start with thousands -- Look we already have a model withthe nuclear program, like some one pointed out, it takes a determination but it also takes political will, to continue to be loyal to a grand vision over time

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Our position was that begin with a small number and really, we just don't have that many qualified to begin with, anyway, begin with a small number, get them to a Phd level, and be fair, not all of these will want that for themselves and may be content at the Masters level, have them train train 4 times the number of instructors --- we can have thousands in time but we don't need to start with thousands -- Look we already have a model withthe nuclear program, like some one pointed out, it takes a determination but it also takes political will, to continue to be loyal to a grand vision over time

hmm. . Well we have determination. If they offer some charm on the Aviation and Naval side (on civilian level), many will join. And as you talk about nuclear program, well in Pakistan we have a very good charm on atomic side. 4 years at PIEAS and you have a confirm job in PAEC with a very nice salary and facilities, and if you have the determination to study more your Masters, M. Phil and Ph.D is free by PAEC not only from PIEAS but from abroad also (USA, UK, Germany, France, Belgium etc). . Facilities like these are offered on Aviation and Naval Engineering side is what we need.

 

[t_for_talli]

SU 30 MKI IS ENTIRELY RUSSIAN JET CUSTOMER MADE FOR INDIA.HAL IS ASSEMBLING THOSE JETS N THE TECH IS TRANSFERRED FROM RUSSIA.SO U CANT CALL IT A JOINT VENTURE AS INDIA HAS A VERY LITTLE OR NO ROLE AT ALL IN ITS MANUFACTURING.RECENTLY INDIANS HAVE ASKED RUSSIANS TO UPGRADE THEIR SU 30S.

Thats wat i m saying Su30 MKI is not a joint venture...read my previous post again
Ok i will put this in simple words Indian contribution to MKI is more or equal to pakistani contribution to Jf17 ......how is it joint venture?

 

[bc040400065]

Lets not make is LCA vs FC1 thread... Assume what you have written here is right, then the question is "Where it (LCA) is made?" Isn't LCA is developed in India??? There are many subsystem of LCA where Idnian engineers contributed and mastered it.. If you want to discuss more, lets come in LCA thread...

@topic: I still don understand what this topic all about, I can't understand chinese, and no one here talking on topic... can some one please summarize it for me...

JFT is also developed in pakistan as per your logic. I don't want to continue this nonsense so you better see this PAC site and see for your self how much sub systems are produced in pakistan.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

on a side note do visit this F16 related page as well.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

 

[Black Widow]

JFT is also developed in pakistan as per your logic. I don't want to continue this nonsense so you better see this PAC site and see for your self how much sub systems are produced in pakistan.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

on a side note do visit this F16 related page as well.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

"living in denial" is neither a Stand nor an argument, Its just a state of mind, which is difficult to change.. Either you know the truth or U don't want to know it...

In both cases I am helpless.. If you really want to know truth then Go thru Wikipedia for both LCA and FC1.. More important you go through the links given at the end of page. I do agree that Wiki page is editable, but the same time truth is, "The link given below" are not editable..

@ Topic: can any one let me know what this topic all about?

 

[houshanghai]

indians could't even carefully see this videos.

PAC chairman have given the best answer to some indians who troll in this thread .

 

[PWFI]

"living in denial" is neither a Stand nor an argument, Its just a state of mind, which is difficult to change.. Either you know the truth or U don't want to know it...

In both cases I am helpless.. If you really want to know truth then Go thru Wikipedia for both LCA and FC1.. More important you go through the links given at the end of page. I do agree that Wiki page is editable, but the same time truth is, "The link given below" are not editable..

@ Topic: can any one let me know what this topic all about?

No comment!!