JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Pakistani Fighter]

Thunder having smaller RCS and MKI having bigger RCS is designed to have advantage of initial detection

Sir but MKIs radar's range is greater ryt. Dont u think if it has greater range so there is a possibility that it can lock Thunder first. Also if both's bvr are of same range then both need to come close to each other at max the max range of their BVRs.
SD 10A has a reported range of max 80km. R 77-1 have been obtained by IAF which have reported range of 110km

4 BVRs can be hanged by using dual racks.

Why haven't we seen them carrying then?

 

[My-Analogous]

The notion of a LIGHT WEIGHT fighter is it's practicality of weight in terms of ordinance/Weapon system package and the size of the aircraft over all, think of a light weight fighter as a designated fighting machine where it is used to fight off enemy fighter in considerable numbers and quick engagements hence a "practical machine".

In regards to the JF-17 Thunder, it is not a light weight fighter any more but has evolved into a multi role fighter which is a little more buffed than your usual light classified fighter. It is suppose to full fill our needs and be cost effective, JF-17 is doing our needs well and hence we need not to worry about more hard points, more production numbers or a changed air frame design. There are ways to make it better.

Su-30mki is a great "Heavy Fighter" capable of long range/endurance Combat Air patrol and out standing load characteristics "Heavy fighter" but with "14" missile it is not very realistic to fly it into combat because of 3 major factor.
1) HUGE RCS every one will know where it is
2) Heavy weight will severely affect its performance (all aspects)
3) Parasite drag

The Key to beat BVR missile is speed and that too at low altitude if you are high and slow you are DEAD but if you are at your optimal speed for maneuverability at the time of initial phase of defend and you can spool your engines ASAP to get to mach speeds you are pretty much good

The only heavy loaded beauty i like is

 

[The Accountant]

Sir but MKIs radar's range is greater ryt. Dont u think if it has greater range so there is a possibility that it can lock Thunder first. Also if both's bvr are of same range then both need to come close to each other at max the max range of their BVRs.
SD 10A has a reported range of max 80km. R 77-1 have been obtained by IAF which have reported range of 110km


Why haven't we seen them carrying then?

Yes, MKI has a bigger and powerful radar but also has a bigger RCS. MKI has a RC of 4 times of Thunder. It means it is detectable by even weaker radars much earlier. In past people have share technical data the conclusion of which was that thunder will detect and lock MKI first.

Plus maximum range of SD 10 A is 100 kms and not 80, and R77-1 has maximum range of 110 kms but it again depand on multiple factors. and no BVR can be launched at maximum range ... Furthermore, you are ignoring that thunder is also integrated with PL15 and there are rumors of 100 PL15 in Pakistani arsenal. They were delivered couple of days later of 27th Feb.

Last but not the least. 4 BVR is capability but why to use it in peace time? Missile flying hours is a cost. Missile life get decreased after each flying so why to take 4 missile for just patrolling in peace time? why to put extra strain on aircraft wings and missile life?

 

[khanasifm]

You are correct.
In case of PAF I think the reason why they usually only carry 2 SD-10s instead of 4 is probably because of its radar limitation of being able to guide only two missiles at a time. However with Block-3 we can expect this to change and have 4 BVR equipped loadout via multi rail as KLJ-7A (or the localized offshoot) stated to have the ability to guide 4 missiles at a time.

KLJ-7 V1 could only guide only guide 2 Missiles at a time. No idea on V2 but could be same.

LKF601E Air Cooled AESA (For JF-17 upgrades) is capable of guiding 4 missiles at a time.

KLJ-7A.
The upgraded KLJ-7A is an AESA radar with an reported range of 170km for a 3 m2 target and 200km for 5 m2, with the ability to track 15 targets and engage 4.
https://www.quora.com/How-good-is-KLJ-7A-aesa-radar-for-JF17

 

[JohnWick]

Why do you think thunders can't take on against MKI and Mig29 ? Thunders were designed after induction of MKIs and were specially designed to face MKI.

Modern war in its simplest form is see first kill first. Thunder having smaller RCS and MKI having bigger RCS is designed to have advantage of initial detection whereas BVR of both the aircrafts are of similar performance metrix therefore it is highly likely that in one on one Thunder will actually take down MKI.

Furthermore, thunder is based on the model sweden used to design Grippen. Gripen was also supposed to face Migs and Su and they had lower budgets than Russia, so the conceived a smaller agile fighter which is lower in weight class but is equivalent in terms of capabilities of avionics, missile systems and other sub-systems. Thunder is also based on similar principles.


4 BVRs can be hanged by using dual racks.

Yes in DCS world while in real life dual racks are still not being used in jft by PAF....
Since 2009....

F-16C Versus JF-17 Block-II: Max acceleration DCS World

It is as fake as f

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Furthermore, you are ignoring that thunder is also integrated with PL15 and there are rumors of 100 PL15 in Pakistani arsenal

But are Block Is and 2s capable of launching it due to its higher range?

View attachment 599176

150km is less. Shud be atleast 200km

 

[The Accountant]

Yes in DCS world while in real life fail racks are still not being used in jft by PAF....
Since 2009....


It is as fake as f

Who told you dual rack failed in real life ? And i dont play games so i dont know how thunder looks in DCS

But are Block Is and 2s capable of launching it due to its higher range?

Off-course.

 

[The Eagle]

Why do we need to flood JF-17 main threads with information for which, we already have separate threads? Can't we just make a little bit of effort to scroll down in section and post content in respective subjects like Extra Hard Point, another engine or DCS videos?

The next thing is that, members found posting off-topic content will be banned from thread for indefinite period.

Regards,

 

[Umar Nazir]

But are Block Is and 2s capable of launching it due to its higher range?

Even block-3 might unable to fire PL15 with 100% performance due to under power engine.

 

[ARMalik]

Even block-3 might unable to fire PL15 with 100% performance due to under power engine.

Who told you that the engine was under powered? Or was it one of your expert analysis?

 

[Umar Nazir]

Who told you that the engine was under powered? Or was it one of your expert analysis?

most of the people who have interest in fighter jets knew about it.

 

[denel]

Even block-3 might unable to fire PL15 with 100% performance due to under power engine.

Umar it has nothing to do with engine power. The two are unrelated.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Umar it has nothing to do with engine power. The two are unrelated.

Does electric power in jets works similar to like in vehicles where a separate generator is used???

 

[Umar Nazir]

Umar it has nothing to do with engine power. The two are unrelated.

you knew much better than me about thrust to weight ratio . More thrust mean fighter jet can carry more load which means more PL-15. One or 2 PL-15 will not be enough for BVR fight

 

[denel]

you knew much better than me about thrust to weight ratio . More thrust mean fighter jet can carry more load which means more PL-15. One or 2 PL-15 will not be enough for BVR fight

no no umar. if you read the posts you need to clarify; you are discussing how much can be carried not that pl-15 cannot be used. they are different things.