JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[pkd]

Interesting comments about JF-17 at 11:20 onwards.

@MastanKhan

 

[khanasifm]

Interesting comments about JF-17 at 11:20 onwards.

@MastanKhan

It was not just that lm dropped price and made f-16 cheaper and more attractive Adv version plus more external af will buy unless usaf had bought so it killed f-20

 

[mshan44]

No 26 Black spiders new design patch ️

 

[MastanKhan]

Interesting comments about JF-17 at 11:20 onwards.

@MastanKhan

Hi,

Thank you for posting that video---.

In a few years from now---when pakistan is well off & independent---the truth about the design of the JF17 being based on the F20 and the f18 would come out---.

The truth about how the Paf engineers helped the chinese upgrade the J10---J20 into a better and a finer machine would also be a big surprise for the many of them---when the information comes out---maybe in another decade or so---.

 

[Figaro]

Hi,

Thank you for posting that video---.

In a few years from now---when pakistan is well off & independent---the truth about the design of the JF17 being based on the F20 and the f18 would come out---.

The truth about how the Paf engineers helped the chinese upgrade the J10---J20 into a better and a finer machine would also be a big surprise for the many of them---when the information comes out---maybe in another decade or so---.

These sound like very outlandish claims ... what are your thoughts @Deino

 

[MastanKhan]

These sound like very outlandish claims ... what are your thoughts @Deino

OOOOOhhhh---I am shaking---you called the "show me the link" police on me---.

 

[Figaro]

OOOOOhhhh---I am shaking---you called the "show me the link" police on me---.

If you provide a claim, especially as extreme sounding as this one, the least we would expect of you is to show some basic evidence. Is it wrong to ask for substantiation?

 

[PakFactor]

If you provide a claim, especially as extreme sounding as this one, the least we would expect of you is to show some basic evidence. Is it wrong to ask for substantiation?

Well we also have to take into considering besides Russian equipment Chinese can always look into and replicate, Pakistan is their sole input of what Western equipment is capable of and how it operates.

 

[MastanKhan]

If you provide a claim, especially as extreme sounding as this one, the least we would expect of you is to show some basic evidence. Is it wrong to ask for substantiation?

Hi,

I am not making a claim---. I am making a statement---. I never make claims---.

Watch the Air Vice Marshall Latif's interviews---you will hear it.

By the way---this is a defense world---not a computer show---.

Intel agencies spend their lives chasing ghosts---while computer junkies pressing buttons asking for links---.

Chinese had no exposure to the western stuff other than what the israelis sold them---the Lavi design---.

 

[The Raven]

Hi,

Thank you for posting that video---.

In a few years from now---when pakistan is well off & independent---the truth about the design of the JF17 being based on the F20 and the f18 would come out---.

The truth about how the Paf engineers helped the chinese upgrade the J10---J20 into a better and a finer machine would also be a big surprise for the many of them---when the information comes out---maybe in another decade or so---.

The JF-17 was based on the Mig-33 concept of a lightweight fighter based around a single RD-33/93. Mig was actually involved with helping Pakistan and China redesign that concept from having a single ventral intake to lateral intakes. You can also see that the Russians were trying out different LERX designs in the Mig-33, including the large elongated version, which eventually ended up in the JF-17 from PT-04 onward. The F-18 and F-20 had nothing to do with the JF-17. The rest of the your post about J-10/20 is complete BS.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

These sound like very outlandish claims ... what are your thoughts @Deino

Well, Pakistan did lose nearly all interest in the FC-1 program in the 1990s as the PAF thought Chinese were incapable of building a quality fighter comparable to the F-16. That is until ACM Shahid Latif took over the project. He explained to the Chinese what PAF wanted out of the JF-17 program, not what the Chinese were offering.

Later, when the joint venture was offered to Pakistan on the J-10 around 2001-2002, again ACM Shahid Latif rejected it and identified at least 50 faults with the J-10 years later when it was offered for sale.

There's a detailed thread on this matter in the forum.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/identifying-50-issues-with-j-10a-for-paf.638650/

 

[Figaro]

Well, Pakistan did lose nearly all interest in the FC-1 program in the 1990s as the PAF thought Chinese were incapable of building a quality fighter comparable to the F-16. That is until ACM Shahid Latif took over the project. He explained to the Chinese what PAF wanted out of the JF-17 program, not what the Chinese were offering.

Later, when the joint venture was offered to Pakistan on the J-10 around 2001-2002, again ACM Shahid Latif rejected it and identified at least 50 faults with the J-10 years later when it was offered for sale.

There's a detailed thread on this matter in the forum.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/identifying-50-issues-with-j-10a-for-paf.638650/

Judging by this thread, there were no clarifications on any of the 50 issues, with numerous posters questioning the OP's post or pointing out the issues were minor. AFAIK, the main issue why Pakistan did not buy the J-10 in the past was because of the Russian engine. I would assume this stems from Pakistan not wanting to have a repeat of the JF-17 with the RD-93 engine ... which is very reasonable. Now, there is much greater interest in the J-10C because they are finally being mass produced with Chinese engines. This alone is enough to completely reverse the export prospects as the lack of a domestic engine was a huge barrier to export.

 

[The Eagle]

View attachment 660383

No 26 Black spiders new design patch ️

Net centricity, interoperability, far reach, unseen web (not easy to be detected), long bows (weapons) see mid fuselage, trap the prey and kill it.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Judging by this thread, there were no clarifications on any of the 50 issues, with numerous posters questioning the OP's post or pointing out the issues were minor. AFAIK, the main issue why Pakistan did not buy the J-10 in the past was because of the Russian engine. I would assume this stems from Pakistan not wanting to have a repeat of the JF-17 with the RD-93 engine ... which is very reasonable. Now, there is much greater interest in the J-10C because they are finally being mass produced with Chinese engines. This alone is enough to completely reverse the export prospects as the lack of a domestic engine was a huge barrier to export.

You maybe right. But PAF would not purchase the J-10 if it was not technologically at least equal to the F-16s in the PAF inventory.

 

[Armchair]

MK watched all his videos. He gives some good basic aerodynamics lessons quite simply and in a meaningful manner.

I think the point about not properly area ruling the wing-fuselage of the JF-17 is true. But then this is offset by the side intakes, the bulge just immediately after the intake and the LERX, all of which compensate but perhaps not 100% (meaning better area ruling would help the Jeff).

I think the commenter also has his biases, he loves delta canards and can't really see another design choice as a true counterpart. For him, the delta canard gives 20% superior performance (which is open to debate on exactly what parameters that is true).

Truth of the matter is that the JF-17 does an amazing job with the limited resources and is, in terms of actual combat capability, competitive in BVR and WVR against any 4.5 gen fighter. The only issue that Pak has to worry about is the advanced EW of the Rafale. Pak has not faced high tech EW so far against India.

Rafale's advanced active cancellation and aircraft masking are serious concerns, but the Youtuber in another of his videos says we should take that Rafale capability with a bit of salt, so perhaps I am overplaying this. The Meteor is the other concern and Pak has already countered that.

With the recent acquisition of high tech radars, Rafale's active cancellation and other EW capabilities will be significantly diminished. I hope this works to Pak's advantage.

In terms of aerodynamics, the Rafale is not optimized like the Eurofighter for high-high performance. So it will have an advantage but a marginal advantage. The only concern is when this marginal advantage is combined with the Meteor and the EW, it may (or may not) become a bigger advantage.

All this of course if India can do a great job (an not an average job) of operationalizing the Rafale.

Hi,

The acknowledgement from the best analyst on fighter aircraft design structure utility---.

Some of his comments were eye popping---just slipped them right thru---.

What do you think @Armchair---?