JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Bratva]

Hi,

Pac kamra does not have the ability to perform the research---it does not have the funds---.

This was a Catic project---and Catic cannot be taken out and that is by default----. They are the pioneers of manufacturing this aircraft and all the rights of upgrades and modifications rest with them.

We had a carte blanche that we could work as a team in a first rate fighter manufacturing industry shoulder to shoulder with Catic.

I think that it was a win win situation for kamra.

What I did not understand was--are the chinese refusing to develop this modification or what.

Because to develop this modification requires to divert resources from other projects to JF-17 which the are not willing to do.


Another think most of us forgetting is the radar development cycle of J-10. From PD Radar to PESA in B version to AESA in C version

What are the chances radar in block 3 would be PESA and then from batch 4 onward they will try the AESA radar ? Because more or less PAF is taking baby steps and will not make a direct jump from PD to AESA

And can we say Block-3 will be the real Block-1 if we had gotten the french avionics back in 2009

 

[MastanKhan]

Because to develop this modification requires to divert resources from other projects to JF-17 which the are not willing to do.


Another think most of us forgetting is the radar development cycle of J-10. From PD Radar to PESA in B version to AESA in C version

What are the chances radar in block 3 would be PESA and then from batch 4 onward they will try the AESA radar ? Because more or less PAF is taking baby steps and will not make a direct jump from PD to AESA

And can we say Block-3 will be the real Block-1 if we got french avionics ?

Hi,

I believe that there is no reason to go for the Pesa---. It must be and it should be aesa---.

The cycle of development for the J10 was due to a lack of aesa----. Otherwise---the J10 would have gone to aesa from the conventional.

And yes---if we did get the french electronics package---then the blk 3 would truly be the BLK 1 as envisioned originally-----but then my baby is not my baby anymore---it is already grown up.

 

[syed_yusuf]

I think blk3 should have aesa radar and should have some modern irst

 

[slayerAqib]

I have a question to all of you, and that is do you really think the jf 17 is a truly viable aircraft

In my opinion i don't because the jf-17 is only a 3rd generation fighter and that this project should be restarted to make a more advanced plane which would at least be acceptable for world standards


sorry for the lack of detail because i rushed this

 

[Quwa]

If you haven't already, I recommend you read some of my articles on the JF-17. It'll give you some background on why it was pursued, what it is capable of, and where it's going in terms of upgrades and changes in the coming years. You'll find an answer to your question.

http://quwa.org/2015/08/14/jf-17-series-1/

http://quwa.org/2015/08/21/jf-17-block-i-bvr/

http://quwa.org/2015/08/30/jf-17-iii-jf-17-block-3/

http://quwa.org/2015/09/04/jf-17-iv-tomorrows-weapon-systems/

http://quwa.org/2016/02/22/analysis-pakistans-fighter-modernization-roadmap-part-1/

http://quwa.org/2016/02/24/analysis-pakistans-fighter-modernization-roadmap-part-2/

 

[Jhon Smith]

U know what's the difference to drive Suzuki/Toyota cars and lamborghini car or German Mercedes/Audi cars??

today there a blog in dawn news, which explains what r our short coming to make a world standard fighter jet(blog did not mention jet but i am writing here to explain our attitudes towards science and tech). We can not produce even own car...




Pakistan is going backward almost all fields. Despite having nuclear technology Pakistan rank is 131- behind of Bhutan and Bangladesh whose rankings are 121 and 129 respectively- and well behind India,s 91.
read these lines from today's dawn paper
It's a pity that Pakistan was ranked at 131 out of 141 countries in the 2015 report of the Global Innovation Index — which explores the impact of innovation-oriented policies on economic growth and development.

The Ministry of Science and Technology, upon inquiry from the National Assembly, stated in a report that the reasons for the country's poor ranking include:

1) Low percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for science and development.

2) Low standards of science education in our educational institutions.

 

[I M Sikander]

sorry for the lack of detail because i rushed this

You already summarized it quite well dude.

 

[Viper0011.]

I have a question to all of you, and that is do you really think the jf 17 is a truly viable aircraft

In my opinion i don't because the jf-17 is only a 3rd generation fighter and that this project should be restarted to make a more advanced plane which would at least be acceptable for world standards

sorry for the lack of detail because i rushed this

Simply put, the JFT was a 3rd gen jet and it was designed to replace hundreds of 1st and 1.5 gen supersonic fighter / interceptors (older Mirage, F-7, A-5's in PAF's inventory). But the beauty is, the JFT does it by saving 40-50% of the cost to comparable platforms available from the West or elsewhere. BUT with either with the SAME or 90% of capability (compared to older Mirage 2k, older F-16's, Gripen, etc). BUT with 4th gen stuff also, like using longer range BVR's longer range radar, advance avionics, better defensive suit, and some other tech. Plus add no sanctions, and the ability to build and manage internally, helping the Pakistani economy, creating a modern jet manufacturing industry and saving billions of dollars in the long run, would outmatch any other option.

The advance / 4th and 4+ gen part, that's where the block III comes in. IMO, block III would be the baseline towards a true 4.5th gen jet. Later block III or IV, will have true characteristics of a true 4.5 gen. So you are just a few years away from seeing the real maturity of this program. Block IV, IMO should be VERY similar in capability to a J-10C or an F-16 block 52 and with an AESA.

All block I's will be upgraded to block II's. Which in direct comparison, will tell you that the PAF essentially replaced all of her 1950's and early 60's tech and design with an older but upgraded tech of the 21st century (BVR, Advanced Avionics, Defensive Suite, etc, etc). So if you ask the difference of capability between an older Mirage or an F-7, the JFT would seem like an Earth and Sky worth of gap, even with a few things that need improvement even in block I and II.

 

[Thorough Pro]

and a

2% increase in front fuselage with re-designed J-20 style nose & air inputs, 10% increase in wing area, AESA radar, more composite ratio, RAM Coating, RD-33MKV engine & canards. Semi-stealth 5th gen JF-17X.

A 40 cubic feet refrigerator, 65 inch flat screen TV and a 5 seat leather covered sofa........ohh yes a coffee table too

How do you know that we are even asking for it?

What I did not understand was--are the chinese refusing to develop this modification or what.

 

[Viper0011.]

What are the chances radar in block 3 would be PESA and then from batch 4 onward they will try the AESA radar ? Because more or less PAF is taking baby steps and will not make a direct jump from PD to AESA

And can we say Block-3 will be the real Block-1 if we had gotten the french avionics back in 2009

PESA is the last option if the J-10C AESA can't be miniaturized with the same or may be less than 10-20% performance deviation. But for block III, AESA is it about 80% confirmed.

It would make no sense to create a PESA based technical team of experts, spend millions on establishing a center to repair and manage this tech and then a year or two after, go to an AESA, which is a LOT different technology set altogether and requires brand new learning and experiment / internships to learn and experiment how the tech works. Not feasible nor smart, in fact very costly option to do this two staged implementation.

And can we say Block-3 will be the real Block-1 if we had gotten the french avionics back in 2009

The block III IMO and by understanding some details, would be the REAL baseline jet, towards a 4th-4.5 gen tech - machine combo. Upgrades to block III or later, a block IV would provide true 4th and semi 4.5 gen capability. The remainder of existing JFT's will be upgraded to block II and eventually with HMS and an AESA later (problems are there due to small nose cone, so it will be a retro frontal nose cone modification at a later time, once the numbers are enough, flying and fully deployed).

 

[nang2]

PESA is the last option if the J-10C AESA can't be miniaturized with the same or may be less than 10-20% performance deviation. But for block III, AESA is it about 80% confirmed.

It would make no sense to create a PESA based technical team of experts, spend millions on establishing a center to repair and manage this tech and then a year or two after, go to an AESA, which is a LOT different technology set altogether and requires brand new learning and experiment / internships to learn and experiment how the tech works. Not feasible nor smart, in fact very costly option to do this two staged implementation.



The block III IMO and by understanding some details, would be the REAL baseline jet, towards a 4th-4.5 gen tech and a machine. Upgrades to block III or a block IV would provide true 4th-semi 4.5 gen capability. The remainder of existing JFT's will be upgraded to block II and eventually with HMS and an AESA later (problem due to small nose cone, so it will be a retro frontal nose cone modification at a later time, once the numbers are enough and deployed).

The key is to train as many staffs as possible to become proficient in the best weapons you can afford and acquire. In a war, what are valuable are people and weapons in hand.

 

[nang2]

Calculation is simple. Pak pilots need planes to fly. Give your boys and girls the best planes you can afford. Period.

 

[MastanKhan]

PESA is the last option if the J-10C AESA can't be miniaturized with the same or may be less than 10-20% performance deviation. But for block III, AESA is it about 80% confirmed.

It would make no sense to create a PESA based technical team of experts, spend millions on establishing a center to repair and manage this tech and then a year or two after, go to an AESA, which is a LOT different technology set altogether and requires brand new learning and experiment / internships to learn and experiment how the tech works. Not feasible nor smart, in fact very costly option to do this two staged implementation.



The block III IMO and by understanding some details, would be the REAL baseline jet, towards a 4th-4.5 gen tech and a machine. Upgrades to block III or a block IV would provide true 4th-semi 4.5 gen capability. The remainder of existing JFT's will be upgraded to block II and eventually with HMS and an AESA later (problem due to small nose cone, so it will be a retro frontal nose cone modification at a later time, once the numbers are enough and deployed).

Hi,

The aesa in JF17 BLK 3 is the reason paf did not want to go for the J10's last year.

But issue now is the lack of the F16's to fillup their top tier hole---we will be left 60-70 birds less than our ideal numbers.

And to top it off---we need another 190 aircraft to fill in the upcoming vacancies.

The bottomline is that the paf has dug itself into a very deep hole one more time---by not listening to what was happening in the U S.

The Paf needs to change its ' DEVIL'S ADVOCATE '. This person is not doing the job right.

So---here was paf waitng for the JF17 BLK 3 with aesa----it was also shopping for a top tier heavy air superiority aircraft---and it was looking for more F16's.

This the begining of some serious problems one more time.

That is what happens when you do not do your home work in time---either you are in school or college---or if you are running the paf.

 

[HAIDER]

I have a question to all of you, and that is do you really think the jf 17 is a truly viable aircraft

In my opinion i don't because the jf-17 is only a 3rd generation fighter and that this project should be restarted to make a more advanced plane which would at least be acceptable for world standards


sorry for the lack of detail because i rushed this

Yes it worth ....its first time in PAF history they have base platform to learn building a airframe

 

[Zarvan]

I have a question to all of you, and that is do you really think the jf 17 is a truly viable aircraft

In my opinion i don't because the jf-17 is only a 3rd generation fighter and that this project should be restarted to make a more advanced plane which would at least be acceptable for world standards


sorry for the lack of detail because i rushed this

JF-17 is a 4th Generation Air Craft not a third Generation. Those Jets called third Generation by Chinese are considered 4th Generation by west. China also calls F-16 and Euro Fighter and J-10 C third generation Jets.