JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[araz]

Simply since the JH-7B is dead, not even the PLAAF introduced it ... I really don't understand why this again and again pops up as an option.

Because people simply refuse to learn from what has been said and rehash old topics to keep their importance level and audience and consequently ego levels up.
A

 

[air marshal]

http://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder-Block-2/1529

 

[Silicon0000]

Simply since the JH-7B is dead, not even the PLAAF introduced it ... I really don't understand why this again and again pops up as an option.

Probably because there is a marketing and sales mind behind it

 

[MastanKhan]

why PAF not entrusted to induct JH-7B as a long range fighter or bomber...

Hi,

There is a term HORSES FOR COURSES---.

Because the Paf was ruled by the F16 fighter mafia---. They wanted everything to be doing 9G's---turning twisting on a dime---.

The JH7A is basically not a fighter----it basically is a mach 2 bomber that is capable of low flight---.

 

[Nasr]

Simply since the JH-7B is dead, not even the PLAAF introduced it ... I really don't understand why this again and again pops up as an option.

It is probably because some feel that Pakistan Air Force isn't going to have a viable "like for like" replacement for its Mirage bomber fleet. But that's just what I understand it to be.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Hi,

There is a term HORSES FOR COURSES---.

Because the Paf was ruled by the F16 fighter mafia---. They wanted everything to be doing 9G's---turning twisting on a dime---.

The JH7A is basically not a fighter----it basically is a mach 2 bomber that is capable of low flight---.

Entering into battlefield at low speed,dumping tons of guided munitions and exiting at super sonic speed.

 

[messiach]

While CATIC is working expeditiously on two key group of technologies bedrock to future fighters, our planners & force wheelers&dealers are toying with their own shallow ideas, cannot see beyond their noses and perhaps not beyond their own pockets. Disappointed with sofar how they are playing with PAF future fighter programme.

the criticism of the winglets of the J20 and other items on these two aircraft has given the chinese enough experience and knowledge from the critics to correct any shortcomings for future aircraft in the making---.

 

[MastanKhan]

While CATIC is working expeditiously on two key group of technologies bedrock to future fighters, our planners & force wheelers&dealers are toying with their own shallow ideas, cannot see beyond their noses and perhaps not beyond their own pockets. Disappointed with sofar how they are playing with PAF future fighter programme.

Hi,

As I have stated many a times----there are not too many bright shining stars in the Paf future planning division---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

As I have stated many a times----there are not too many bright shining stars in the Paf future planning division---.

You should have applied for the job years ago

 

[Nasr]

Our Chinese friends offered us J-10s back in the 2000s when the aircraft J-10As were out. It was hoped that PAF was waiting on the evolved J-10Bs. But even they didn't go for it. Instead they went for F-16s and bought more second hand ones from Jordan. Now the J-10Cs are available for export, yet they drag their feet. In spite of America spitting in our faces when they said that Block-52s will be sold at full price. 70+ Vipers would do us no good at times of war, if we have no spare parts, engines, or missiles to continue fighting the war. And that leaves all the work left on Thunder's shoulders. Had J-10s been bought back in 2000s in small numbers, PAF would have managed to fully absorb technology transfer of the J-10s over a period of 10 years. By the time J-10CEs were ready, we would've moved into SDK assembly stage and have engine MRO facilities established. This could've even been done beside the Viper MLU program. Today PAF could've had 50 or so MLU Vipers, 90+ J-10s (B/C) and 100 JF-17s Bl-l/lls. Through diversification, PAF could've easily had two frontline fighters on which they would've had mastery over in A2A combat, aside from the usual one (F-16s).

 

[GriffinsRule]

Our Chinese friends offered us J-10s back in the 2000s when the aircraft J-10As were out. It was hoped that PAF was waiting on the evolved J-10Bs. But even they didn't go for it. Instead they went for F-16s and bought more second hand ones from Jordan. Now the J-10Cs are available for export, yet they drag their feet. In spite of America spitting in our faces when they said that Block-52s will be sold at full price. 70+ Vipers would do us no good at times of war, if we have no spare parts, engines, or missiles to continue fighting the war. And that leaves all the work left on Thunder's shoulders. Had J-10s been bought back in 2000s in small numbers, PAF would have managed to fully absorb technology transfer of the J-10s over a period of 10 years. By the time J-10CEs were ready, we would've moved into SDK assembly stage and have engine MRO facilities established. This could've even been done beside the Viper MLU program. Today PAF could've had 50 or so MLU Vipers, 90+ J-10s (B/C) and 100 JF-17s Bl-l/lls. Through diversification, PAF could've easily had two frontline fighters on which they would've had mastery over in A2A combat, aside from the usual one (F-16s).

How much did the 18 F-16, the 2nd hand RJAF F-16s and the MLU of our existing fleet cost us each? Once you have those numbers, how much does a new J-10B/C costs? Then we can do the comparison to see whether what PAF did made sense or not.

 

[MastanKhan]

Because people simply refuse to learn from what has been said and rehash old topics to keep their importance level and audience and consequently ego levels up.
A

Hi,

If you had the technical ability to answer it---I would have talked to you---. But as you don't---I can't play the flute in front of you.

Simply since the JH-7B is dead, not even the PLAAF introduced it ... I really don't understand why this again and again pops up as an option.

Hi,

Guy----Give a technical & strategical answer--- JH7A or JH7B---whatever.

Pakistan's biggest fear is naval strike on its installations in karachi---gwadar---pasni---. What heavy naval strike aircraft do they have that can fly out 500 miles---carries two heavy AshM---and keep the enemy away a 1000 miles---.

Paf has always acted like a traitor when it comes to the defence of pakistan navy---its naval installation and karachi---.

Plaaf has gone that way---because it has spent billions on new toys---so that is what it would show---to justify its expenditure---.

 

[The Accountant]

How much did the 18 F-16, the 2nd hand RJAF F-16s and the MLU of our existing fleet cost us each? Once you have those numbers, how much does a new J-10B/C costs? Then we can do the comparison to see whether what PAF did made sense or not.

This is not about the cost only ... f16s were not totally free ... they were reimbursement of expenses we were incurring on behalf of US ...

Didnt we opted to be bitten by same snake of sanction as it bitten us in 80s in the name of pressler amendment ... thise reimbursement could have been use in any other procurement ...

Now look where we are ... our frontline fighter is now going to be jf17 block 3 ...

A greater fighter but with no uogrades and spares in case of war is no good as compared to a medium fighter with future upgrades and no restriction at time of war ...

If cost is the criteria then fighter aircraft are expensive ... we should stop buying them at all ...

 

[GriffinsRule]

This is not about the cost only ... f16s were not totally free ... they were reimbursement of expenses we were incurring on behalf of US ...

Didnt we opted to be bitten by same snake of sanction as it bitten us in 80s in the name of pressler amendment ... thise reimbursement could have been use in any other procurement ...

Now look where we are ... our frontline fighter is now going to be jf17 block 3 ...

A greater fighter but with no uogrades and spares in case of war is no good as compared to a medium fighter with future upgrades and no restriction at time of war ...

If cost is the criteria then fighter aircraft are expensive ... we should stop buying them at all ...

First of, any war between India and Pakistan is unlikely to go beyond 10 days to two weeks at the max. We will be able to fly all our assets for the duration. The sanctions will impact the serviceability after the fact, but wont have any impact on the war itself.

Its also easy for people to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. You can bet your bottom dollar, had it been Pakistan that had caught and handed over OBL, our relationship with the US would be at a completely different level. Lets also not forget, the F-16s were ordered in 2006, and is still our most capable fighter. And the Block 3 is going to be coming circa 2021, that is 15 years after we ordered the new F-16s. That is a long time gap to be without a high end fighter. 18 F-16s for under $1.5B, 60 MLU kits for another $1.3B only is still an awesome bang for the buck. Cost might not be the only thing but its a huge part of it for a broke country.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.co...es-upgrades-weapons-for-pakistans-f16s-02396/

Another thing to keep in mind is we have no other precision strike aircraft bar the F-16s until just last year when we placed an order for targeting pods for the JF-17. We are also not under any sanctions, and our relationship with the US has its eb and flows. Most likely in the next decade we will be upgrading our Block 52s to the Block 70 standard and that bird will be in PAF colors till 2040. So learn to live with it as theres a long way to go.

Btw, has the PAF set up any overhaul facilities for the RD-93 at Kamra yet? There were talks about it in 2015-2016 but havent read anything concrete since then. Thus in the time of war, its not just the F-16s we have to worry about but we are also dependent on the Russians for the engines for our most numerical fighter.

 

[The Accountant]

First of, any war between India and Pakistan is unlikely to go beyond 10 days to two weeks at the max. We will be able to fly all our assets for the duration. The sanctions will impact the serviceability after the fact, but wont have any impact on the war itself.

Its also easy for people to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. You can bet your bottom dollar, had it been Pakistan that had caught and handed over OBL, our relationship with the US would be at a completely different level. Lets also not forget, the F-16s were ordered in 2006, and is still our most capable fighter. And the Block 3 is going to be coming circa 2021, that is 15 years after we ordered the new F-16s. That is a long time gap to be without a high end fighter. 18 F-16s for under $1.5B, 60 MLU kits for another $1.3B only is still an awesome bang for the buck. Cost might not be the only thing but its a huge part of it for a broke country.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.co...es-upgrades-weapons-for-pakistans-f16s-02396/

Another thing to keep in mind is we have no other precision strike aircraft bar the F-16s until just last year when we placed an order for targeting pods for the JF-17. We are also not under any sanctions, and our relationship with the US has its eb and flows. Most likely in the next decade we will be upgrading our Block 52s to the Block 70 standard and that bird will be in PAF colors till 2040. So learn to live with it as theres a long way to go.

Btw, has the PAF set up any overhaul facilities for the RD-93 at Kamra yet? There were talks about it in 2015-2016 but havent read anything concrete since then. Thus in the time of war, its not just the F-16s we have to worry about but we are also dependent on the Russians for the engines for our most numerical fighter.

Thats not hindsight but a Dejavu ... We were hit by pressler's amendment back in 80s as soon as Russia got defeated in Afghanistan ... We again got sanction on reimbursement of expenses incurred on behalf of US as soon as Taliban became weak ...

Right it down ,,, the moment Taliban got defeated or US leaves Afghanistan they will throw us like tissue paper ... You can keep on dreaming that F16s will be allowed to upgrade ...

Even if they will be allowed upgrade it will be upto the extent of ensuring that India don't get annoyed ...

Regarding RD 93, you can always get the spare engine in an expected war situation the real issue is of ammunition ... Which you can get from China ... or alternatively you can try to get an overhaul facility but in case of F16s you have no alternative ... They don't allow you to do anything to aircraft without permission ...