JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[denel]

Very interesting read for all.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/06/thunderbird-pakistans-jf-17-ten-years-on.html

 

[Armchair]

Very interesting read for all.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/06/thunderbird-pakistans-jf-17-ten-years-on.html

Interesting comment in that link, seems by an Indian:

The Tejas vs JF-17 comparison seems to evoke memories about the Panzer vs T34. T34 was considered by the Germans to be too crude and simple. The Panzer on the other was highly sophisiticated and no doubt more lethal. But Stalin, true to his belief that “quantity has a quality of its own” overwhelmed the German army by producing the T34 in large numbers QUICKER, whihc means for every destroyed tank, the time to churn out its replacement was shorter. The Panzer on the other hand, due to it’s sophistication, took a much longer to time to assemble. The T34 was major factor in confounding Hitler’s plans. Let’s hope that Tejas doesn’t suffer a similar fate. MAKE ease of production AS PART OF THE SQRs.

 

[Mrc]

I never understand indian obsession in comparing every thing with tejas from fishing troller to cancer chemotherapy... tejas is superior to every thing and yet 40 years since it was conceived its yet to be operational....

So why tooo compare it to a mediocre aircraft which has been inducted up graded seen battle even shot down a uav and is being exported to several countries??

 

[ziaulislam]

Very interesting read for all.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/06/thunderbird-pakistans-jf-17-ten-years-on.html

typical bull shit and lack of professional reporting from india...
i understand doing a bad review but cant understand how you post wrong facts..
if you cant stomach it you can simply omit them...

 

[Cookie Monster]

Very interesting read for all.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/06/thunderbird-pakistans-jf-17-ten-years-on.html

Author's name "Mihir Shah"...that was my first clue that I shouldn't bother reading but then I gave it the benefit of the doubt and started reading...

Came across this right in the 1st paragraph
"It boasted neither the sleek lines of the F-16, nor the raw power of the MiG-29"


Sleek lines? Wtf...it's a jet not a Lamborghini. It's design was according to the role it was designed for.

As for comparing it to the "raw power of Mig29"...whatever the f*ck "raw power" means...engine perhaps?
In that case they are powered by the same engine(RD93 being a derivative of RD33)...if anything RD93 has slightly higher thrust.

The rest of the article is filled with such inaccuracies and utter lack of knowledge. It's less of an article and more of a wet dream. No one should bother reading...idk why u posted it.

 

[denel]

Author's name "Mihir Shah"...that was my first clue that I shouldn't bother reading but then I gave it the benefit of the doubt and started reading...

Came across this right in the 1st paragraph
"It boasted neither the sleek lines of the F-16, nor the raw power of the MiG-29"


Sleek lines? Wtf...it's a jet not a Lamborghini. It's design was according to the role it was designed for.

As for comparing it to the "raw power of Mig29"...whatever the f*ck "raw power" means...engine perhaps?
In that case they are powered by the same engine(RD93 being a derivative of RD33)...if anything RD93 has slightly higher thrust.

The rest of the article is filled with such inaccuracies and utter lack of knowledge. It's less of an article and more of a wet dream. No one should bother reading...idk why u posted it.

Well, i did not see it in the negative light everyone is making out to be.

Basic 101 of Project Management was adhered to, Scope creep was not entertained, flexibility to switch to alternative components; yes there are inaccuracies but it highlighted a very big positive - focus, and ontime delivery of prototype and various phases which are in front of us. The author also reflects well on alternatives which were there and also shifting priorities which doomed other projects. Form and function.

So, take it with a positive light which is well reflected.

Interesting comment in that link, seems by an Indian:

Yes, looks like Indian posts but as noted found positive insights which should be taken as a compliment.

 

[MastanKhan]

Very interesting read for all.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/06/thunderbird-pakistans-jf-17-ten-years-on.html

Hi @denel

Thanks for posting this excellent article---.

How miserable are the children of my motherland---how ill-informed and pathetic they are in understanding what is being written---. They are totally clueless as to the strategic value and importance of this article---.

This article---on the surface has put JF17 in the worst place possible for an average reader---and that is where the confusion is---.

My pakistani children are so stupid--they cannot comprehend the subtleties in the articles---these kids are simply duffers---.

Dig deeper into it---and the writer has lavished praise on the JF17 aircraft---. The utility that this aircraft was built for---is being praised openly---. The Teja is being lambasted as the sun is shining on a bright sunny day---.

Technical information they don't have---because most of it has not been disclosed---so an assumption of a lowest common technical advantage is being used to describe the technology of the aircraft---and that is only due to the reason that the Paf has kept a lid on it---.

Until and unless the chinese product s proven in war games with other nations---and a clearer picture comes out---the writer cannot be blamed for writing what he did---.

Next thing---the writer has been extremely tactical in his approach---he wants a reaction from the pakistani side to come out with the real stuff that the aircraft has.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Hi @denel

Thanks for posting this excellent article---.

How miserable are the children of my motherland---how ill-informed and pathetic they are in understanding what is being written---. They are totally clueless as to the strategic value and importance of this article---.

This article---on the surface has put JF17 in the worst place possible for an average reader---and that is where the confusion is---.

My pakistani children are so stupid--they cannot comprehend the subtleties in the articles---these kids are simply duffers---.

Dig deeper into it---and the writer has lavished praise on the JF17 aircraft---. The utility that this aircraft was built for---is being praised openly---. The Teja is being lambasted as the sun is shining on a bright sunny day---.

Technical information they don't have---because most of it has not been disclosed---so an assumption of a lowest common technical advantage is being used to describe the technology of the aircraft---and that is only due to the reason that the Paf has kept a lid on it---.

Until and unless the chinese product s proven in war games with other nations---and a clearer picture comes out---the writer cannot be blamed for writing what he did---.

Next thing---the writer has been extremely tactical in his approach---he wants a reaction from the pakistani side to come out with the real stuff that the aircraft has.

Actually my issue isn't that the author showed it in negative light or positive light. In fact I would have no issue if the author stated FACTS and based on those facts JF17 turned out to be the worst aircraft in the history of mankind. I m not the kind of person who lets nationalism blind me to reality.

I understand that it's not a top of the line aircraft...I also understand what the author wrote about its utility and how it can add numbers for a relatively low price, which can do wonders in a net centric environment when it plays well in the presence of AWACS and other assets. That's not the point though...my issue is that the author has blatantly glanced over actual KNOWN FACTS about the platform and then only goes on to "praise" it just a little after backhanded/sly comments just to sound balanced perhaps

Anyone writing about jets or any defence equipment should try to stay objective rather than letting emotion/nationalism prevail in their article. So I can careless for that praise or bashing...bcuz the author's emotions are entangled with the objectiveness in the article as a whole.

Well, i did not see it in the negative light everyone is making out to be.

Basic 101 of Project Management was adhered to, Scope creep was not entertained, flexibility to switch to alternative components; yes there are inaccuracies but it highlighted a very big positive - focus, and ontime delivery of prototype and various phases which are in front of us. The author also reflects well on alternatives which were there and also shifting priorities which doomed other projects. Form and function.

That right there is my main issue with the article. I don't care if JF17 turns out to be the worst fighter jet on earth based on FACTS...as long as that conclusion is based on FACTS. There's no shortage of articles comparing JF17 and Tejas...most of them are based on emotions...and I don't care for them.

 

[araz]

Well, i did not see it in the negative light everyone is making out to be.

Basic 101 of Project Management was adhered to, Scope creep was not entertained, flexibility to switch to alternative components; yes there are inaccuracies but it highlighted a very big positive - focus, and ontime delivery of prototype and various phases which are in front of us. The author also reflects well on alternatives which were there and also shifting priorities which doomed other projects. Form and function.

So, take it with a positive light which is well reflected.


Yes, looks like Indian posts but as noted found positive insights which should be taken as a compliment.

I agree about the positives. The JFT is a utility fighter on a budget. It has worked beyond people's expectations. It can work wonderfully well in a net centric environment. Ithink his lamentations about Tejas are poignant and relevant. We cannot expect objective views and reviews all the time but even with coloured glasses if someone finds positive things to write it is a positive thing.
A

 

[denel]

I agree about the positives. The JFT is a utility fighter on a budget. It has worked beyond people's expectations. It can work wonderfully well in a net centric environment. Ithink his lamentations about Tejas are poignant and relevant. We cannot expect objective views and reviews all the time but even with coloured glasses if someone finds positive things to write it is a positive thing.
A

Absolutely correct, it can be equated not to a Lada but rather a Corolla and will continue to evolve with experience and as more technologies suites become matured. The article praises it for its values and agility of its deliver to deliver fitness to purpose whilst shedding a very negative light on their own methodologies, failures and creation of proverbial white elephants. @MastanKhan points are very valid. You need to be proud of the fact there is a very worthy mention; if you scroll further down towards the commentary to read further inputs. Negative criticism are part of every rivalry so take it as that.

 

[Mrc]

So the fighter does not have raw power of mig 29 although RD 93 is more powerful upgrade of RD 33 which powers mig 29....

This piece should be recomend for novel price of literature on just stating raw and honest facts


And si shud be @mastaan

 

[Armchair]

I just want to say that the author did a good job. He gave merits and demerits. Maybe held the JF-17 to a lower standard than deserved, but overall a great effort for an Indian.

And remember, to be praised by your enemy is an ultimate honor.

There is another good Indian author I like reading - Prasun Sengupta. Worth a look imho.

 

[Windjammer]

Logo of the newest PAF unit, No 28 Phoenix squadron.

 

[Armchair]

Nice JF-17 aerobatics

 

[Imran Khan]

Logo of the newest PAF unit, No 28 Phoenix squadron.

View attachment 478076

now its 6 month old news please shear what next squadron will be got thunders