JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[CriticalThought]

I don't think you understand how a turbine engine works. DSI only makes sure that air is available to engine in all phases of flight. It has nothing to do with how engine operates. You need to read before making such claims.

Here is a closeup of the engine from your video. The turning mechanism for the guide vanes is very clearly visible.

Now show me the mechanism in this picture of RD-93

 

[messiach]

What's being discussed? @razgriz19 @CriticalThought

 

[CriticalThought]

What's being discussed? @razgriz19 @CriticalThought

The point of contention is whether RD-93 has variable inlet guide vanes or not.

 

[razgriz19]

Here is a closeup of the engine from your video. The turning mechanism for the guide vanes is very clearly visible.

View attachment 440074

Now show me the mechanism in this picture of RD-93

View attachment 440075

It's behind the LP compressor. VIGV is used for the core so you won't see it in that photo.

 

[messiach]

That's one of the reasons for FADEC.

During that time Chinese were working on DSI for J20 program ,In my humble view RD93 being derivative of RD33 employs certain tools in manufacturing which are based on 60/70s technology and it is a crude but robust engine (having higher fuel consumption) also points out that its more then engine seals infact some how DSI /or intake has to be computer controlled at various profiles

@razgriz19 @CriticalThought
VIGV is absolute must. FADEC provides the control for VIGV on-board RD93. Look at my previous correspondence.

 

[Talon]

So 18 sqn ?? Or another will convert early 2018 and may be 14 single plus two dual seater will make its inventory??

Or it could be single dual seater kept at pac for potential customer flight of assigned to one of the two sqn there ??

Alan Warnes said the PAF will acquire an additional 12 JF-17 Block-IIs in 2018 to keep PAC warm while the JF-17 Block-III is completed. These additional JF-17s could possibly be JF-17B and transition No. 18 Sqn to JF-17 OCU.

18 sqn is the only proper ocu left of F7 so it will continue to operate F7 for now..

The Two crashes were of Block 1 or Block 2

1st one was blk 1 and 2nd was probably blk 2 as it was of black panthers(were at masroor those days) and they operate blk 2..

 

[razgriz19]

That's one of the reasons for FADEC.


@razgriz19 @CriticalThought
VIGV is absolute must. FADEC provides the control for VIGV on-board RD93. Look at my previous correspondence.

I already know that, Mr. Critical thought wouldn't accept that fact.
And btw last i heard RD93 doesn't have FADEC. It uses EEC as per one of the senior members here. Can you confirm about FADEC?

That's one of the reasons for FADEC.


@razgriz19 @CriticalThought
VIGV is absolute must. FADEC provides the control for VIGV on-board RD93. Look at my previous correspondence.

 

[messiach]

This would be repetition. Look at my relevant correspondence.

I already know that, Mr. Critical thought wouldn't accept that fact.
And btw last i heard RD93 doesn't have FADEC. It uses EEC as per one of the senior members here. Can you confirm about FADEC?

 

[Tempest II]

And btw last i heard RD93 doesn't have FADEC. It uses EEC as per one of the senior members here. Can you confirm about FADEC?

I want to think the BARK-93 is for the RD-93.

http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/automatic/acs/

The Klimov Company’s research centre and special manufacturing facility deal with the development, production and servicing of BARK electronic units for all types of existing and prospective engines.

PRODUCT QUALITY

The BARK units:

• extend the service life of the hot parts of the engine;
• improve the gas flow stability margin of the engine running in variable modes and during aircraft maneuvering;
• improve the accuracy and quality of engine control;
• adapt engine control to the ambient situation;
• compensate for the response time of gauges that measure controlled and monitored parameters;
• provide deep engine control to ensure condition-based operation;
• significantly reduce the weight and volume of electronic components of the system as well as connecting cables.

VERSIONS

The following models have been developed for various types of engines:

• BARK-19 — for the TV7-117K marine gas turbine engine;
• BARK-12 and BARK-57 — for TV7-117V/VM/VK turboshaft engines;
• BARK-60 — for the VK-1500 turboprop engine;
• BARK-65 — for the TV7-117 family of turboprop engines;
• BARK-78 — for the TV3-117 and VK-2500 family of turboshaft engines;
• BARK-42 and BARK-93 — for the RD-33 family of turbojet engines.

SERVICE AND SUPPORT

The Klimov Company offers a full range of servicing for the BARK automatic control systems that it develops and manufactures.

FACTS

• digital control systems improve reliability, reduce fuel consumption and the total weight of the power plant
• development of BARK units started in 1998

 

[khanasifm]

18 sqn is the only proper ocu left of F7 so it will continue to operate F7 for now..


1st one was blk 1 and 2nd was probably blk 2 as it was of black panthers(were at masroor those days) and they operate blk 2..

20 sqn with pg acting as mini ocu for pg has moved to mm Alam ( Allan new paf book) base not sure why would 18 continue with f-7s if the aircraft are on borrowed life extensions

Anyway guessing here 18 will re eqpt with jf PGS will take over full time ocu ie 20 sqn all pilot will got to 20 ocu and 22 ocu after k-8 no 1 sqn

A year or two later they move to sqn 14 running f-16 ocu and 26 sqn jf ocu

 

[volatile]

Oem states developed in 85 ?? May be development was completed in 85

The Klimov RD-33 is a turbofan jet engine for a lightweight fighter jet that is the primary engine for the Mikoyan MiG-29 and CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder. It was developed in OKB-117 led by S. P. Izotov from 1968 with production starting in 1981. Wikipedia

design is based on 68 work and after that final production started in 1981 but all design work is out 70

DSI was created specifically to avoid the control surfaces for a variable intake.

I beg to differ as i have studied fluid dynamics and on similar behaviour of air as fluid the DSI provides certain profiles to air

which work together to divert boundary layer airflow away from the aircraft's engine. This eliminates the need for a splitter plate, while compressing the air to slow it down from supersonic to subsonic speeds. The DSI can be used to replace conventional methods of controlling supersonic and boundary-layer airflow.
some reference taken form wikipedia but it has defined splendidly well the phenomena .

 

[CriticalThought]

The Klimov RD-33 is a turbofan jet engine for a lightweight fighter jet that is the primary engine for the Mikoyan MiG-29 and CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder. It was developed in OKB-117 led by S. P. Izotov from 1968 with production starting in 1981. Wikipedia

design is based on 68 work and after that final production started in 1981 but all design work is out 70


I beg to differ as i have studied fluid dynamics and on similar behaviour of air as fluid the DSI provides certain profiles to air

which work together to divert boundary layer airflow away from the aircraft's engine. This eliminates the need for a splitter plate, while compressing the air to slow it down from supersonic to subsonic speeds. The DSI can be used to replace conventional methods of controlling supersonic and boundary-layer airflow.
some reference taken form wikipedia but it has defined splendidly well the phenomena .

Yes, this is correct. I was misled earlier about VIGV because there is no obvious control mechanism on the outside, but @razgriz19 says it is used in internal stages.

 

[razgriz19]

Yes, this is correct. I was misled earlier about VIGV because there is no obvious control mechanism on the outside, but @razgriz19 says it is used in internal stages.

You guys are not even trying to understand are you?
VIGV responds to pilots throttle input. It has nothing to do with what happens to air before the engine. This whole thing started because of black smoke debate

 

[messiach]

Correct.

VIGV responds to pilots throttle input. It has nothing to do with what happens to air before the engine.

 

[CriticalThought]

You guys are not even trying to understand are you?
VIGV responds to pilots throttle input. It has nothing to do with what happens to air before the engine. This whole thing started because of black smoke debate

My only confusion was regarding the location of VIGV and whether it is actually used in RD-93. I have always known that modern engines control airflow through VIGV. When it happens depends on a complex optimization function that takes into account throttle input amongst many other variables. So you can't say throttle input always leads to change in VIGV position in modern engines.