JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[araz]

Sir, if you notice, the Russians don't have any single engine fighter - at all. The IAF does have single engine fighters on the other hand. Loiter time and combat radius can be increased through refueling. The twin engines on Russian fighters represent their air warfare doctrine. Imagine SU-35 with integrated AESA and IRST. It wouldn't need a jamming pod. They actually will carry all those missiles. With those twin engines, they can remain nimble and agile with 12 A2A missiles. But Russian tactics involve firing a salvo of missiles at a single target with multiple warheads to maximize the probability of kill. At the same time, all that muscle gives them energy superiority which makes any missile that much more lethal because it will have higher kinetic energy. For WVR, they have a very lethal combination of HOBS+HMD/S and super-maneuverability.

For the Thunder Block 2, BVR with SU-30 can be won if we take advantage of its much bigger size, the radar signature of all those missiles hanging off it, and if we can overcome its radar jamming capabilities to shoot first and kill first. Wvr will be suicidal. HOBS+HMD/S can improve Thunder's chances but a lot would depend on pilot skills as well.

Given all this, J-10 would actually be a disadvantage because of its bigger size. The Thunder's smaller size is a strength and an asset in air 2 air combat. This is something which fanboys on the forum fail to appreciate. Even with all this explanation, a few days later, there will be someone else posing as an innocent cluebie, yet 'authentically' making statements about 11 hard points. It's a cult/gang/mafia out there.

Bhai.
Look at the land mass of Russia vis a vis Pakistan. The doctrine was of cold war days requiring war across Europe. All of that went down the drain with the collapse of the USSR. The US has maintained single engined jets on the other hand as their engine technology is far more advanced allowing economical fuel usage.
A

 

[raahaat7]

View attachment 409093Pakistan Moves ahead with plan for an indigenous facility for the manufacture of 5th Generation Aircraft.
ACM Sohail Aman said while inaugurating Aviation City Kamra that a facility will be built for the indigenous production of 5th Generation fighter aircrafts. Details for the Fifth generation aircraft are still undisclosed whether it'll be an already available aircraft or will it be a joint venture or will it be an indigenous design.[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

That is a wonderful news. Hope they speed up the work on an indigenous engine.

 

[messiach]

No idea.

Hi,

Share something about a potent EW package---. Thanks.

 

[AFlover]

You need to understand what a typical configuration for air to air confrontation is going to be like before you can critically comprehend what the JFT Provides. No one in their right minds is going into an A2A configuration with more missiles than are needed and at best a4BVR+2aWVR plus drop tank is all you are going to need. Once you have offloaded your missiles it will be back to base ASAP. No one is going to stick around in that environment for long. So I dont understand what the infatuation with 11 or 13 Hardpoints is. Please understand that the additional hardpoints are for Pods rather than weapons station. It will be down to pilot ratio, quality of missiles, and faster turn atounds that the next confrontation will be based. The reason IAF is supporting twin engines is to increase the distance from which it can operate rather than bomb trucks plus the larger land mass.
A

Thanks a lot brother
I m not an airforce professional rather an airline. Airforce is my passion that's y I have been stick to the forum for so many years and have been learning.
I think people here didn't take it easy to read 11HP to which I already mentioned that it was mentioned by another senior member who was replying my post.
I understand in engagement term higher nos of missiles may make it difficult for a fighter in quick turn back o also understand a huge advantage of JF17 due to its smaller size with excellent weapons package along to face SU30. But so far every single person is explaining a defensive strategy to deny IAF in our airspace but I haven't find anyone explaining to us with thunder or F16 how r they going to do a counter attack strategy and in that case don't u think a larger aircraft with higher numbers of missiles r needed to face enemy aircraft in their airspace
Plus in the past somebody mentioned that what if IAF attack with a massive strength all togather e.g. With 2-3 squadron to achieve their objectives
I also know there is a big disparity in numbers
There is no deep striker in the scene for next many years

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks a lot brother
I m not an airforce professional rather an airline. Airforce is my passion that's y I have been stick to the forum for so many years and have been learning.
I think people here didn't take it easy to read 11HP to which I already mentioned that it was mentioned by another senior member who was replying my post.
I understand in engagement term higher nos of missiles may make it difficult for a fighter in quick turn back o also understand a huge advantage of JF17 due to its smaller size with excellent weapons package along to face SU30. But so far every single person is explaining a defensive strategy to deny IAF in our airspace but I haven't find anyone explaining to us with thunder or F16 how r they going to do a counter attack strategy and in that case don't u think a larger aircraft with higher numbers of missiles r needed to face enemy aircraft in their airspace
Plus in the past somebody mentioned that what if IAF attack with a massive strength all togather e.g. With 2-3 squadron to achieve their objectives
I also know there is a big disparity in numbers
There is no deep striker in the scene for next many years

We have a standoff crusie missiles and Ballistic missile for this pupose

 

[MastanKhan]

We have a standoff crusie missiles and Ballistic missile for this pupose

Hi,

They don't work---.

 

[Army research]

Hi,

They don't work---.

Wait , you're being satirical right ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Wait , you're being satirical right ?

Hi,

I am not being satirical---. You need heavy strike aircraft. Cruise missiles are not a solution.

Just look at the last tomahawk strike on the syrian air base---.

 

[AFlover]

We have a standoff crusie missiles and Ballistic missile for this pupose

How much it will be effective in the presence of Israelis arrows or AMD to deny our cruise missiles or if enemy lay off missile sights before our doctrine strategy could actually be executed So pure AF offensive strategy I need to explore may be someone can explain it in more details as to how will achieve our objectives
To all plz remember I presented these scenarios just to know how we could tackle the threat

 

[MastanKhan]

How much it will be effective in the presence of Israelis arrows or AMD to deny our cruise missiles or if enemy lay off missile sights before our doctrine strategy could actually be executed So pure AF offensive strategy I need to explore may be someone can explain it in more details as to how will achieve our objectives
To all plz remember I presented these scenarios just to know how we could tackle the threat

Hi,

To overcome the problem that you have envisioned---you need a complete package of weaponry---.

And the most important part of that is heavy strike aircraft in our arena---.

What it gives is the flexibility of the direction of attack from standoff distances---which the missiles do not under the current scenario amongst other things.

Basically---the current setup is a failure scenario---.

Look thru the perspective of history---. All the PUNJABI & PASHTUN warriors and the SINDHI & BALUCHIS have failed over the centuries due to their defensive mindset---.

The Punjabi sikhs had an offensive mindset and look what they accomplished---.

Defensive mindset is a national character and a genetic heritage of pakistan now---.

 

[alibaz]

Why don't Pakistan sends 50 planes to Palestinian Authority and base these in Saudi Arabia since Israel is supplying some advance weaponry to India

Lets take care of ourselves first and avoid unnecessary messing with others.

 

[AFlover]

Hi,

To overcome the problem that you have envisioned---you need a complete package of weaponry---.

And the most important part of that is heavy strike aircraft in our arena---.

What it gives is the flexibility of the direction of attack from standoff distances---which the missiles do not under the current scenario amongst other things.

Basically---the current setup is a failure scenario---.

Look thru the perspective of history---. All the PUNJABI & PASHTUN warriors and the SINDHI & BALUCHIS have failed over the centuries due to their defensive mindset---.

The Punjabi sikhs had an offensive mindset and look what they accomplished---.

Defensive mindset is a national character and a genetic heritage of pakistan now---.

Thanks a lot
Yes you r right we need a heavy strike fighter but I m sure the top brass has been planning something according to their capacity, available options and budget.
Actually i m eager to know for many many years what many members disclosed that PAF will shortly acquire EF or negotiation r under way for SU35
But so far no news.
SU30 despite its largest RCS IAF aware of its drawbacks and I m sure they have already worked out some counter measures to get upper hand
I m confident that PAF training part has huge advantages over IAF despite their superior technology
But shorter airspace span and may be two fronts attack from easy and west will be a real test for our PAF

 

[MastanKhan]

Thanks a lot
Yes you r right we need a heavy strike fighter but I m sure the top brass has been planning something according to their capacity, available options and budget.
Actually i m eager to know for many many years what many members disclosed that PAF will shortly acquire EF or negotiation r under way for SU35
But so far no news.
SU30 despite its largest RCS IAF aware of its drawbacks and I m sure they have already worked out some counter measures to get upper hand
I m confident that PAF training part has huge advantages over IAF despite their superior technology
But shorter airspace span and may be two fronts attack from easy and west will be a real test for our PAF

Hi,

You don't get it yet---the air force generals have no plans at all---. They have sold out pakistan---either thru incompetence---or for jobs after retirement.

 

[My-Analogous]

NOTE: I am a layman just like you. But Dr. Google tells me FSDT stands for First order Shear Deformation Theory. It predicts how an object will deform when impacted by shearing forces. They probably applied it to the wings and then selected materials/joining and welding techniques/structural design to reduce the deformation while allowing more load to be carried. Remember JF-17B is said to have a lower wing loading. This is the magic that enabled it. It comes under the general category of structural engineering.

I object, it is not Dr. Google but his original name is Google Baba

 

[Army research]

Hi,

I am not being satirical---. You need heavy strike aircraft. Cruise missiles are not a solution.

Just look at the last tomahawk strike on the syrian air base---.

Ah right but they do work , just not as effective as twelve runway shredders on six heavy fighters