JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[datalibdaz]

It says that JF 17 KLJ has a search range of 130 Km's for 3m2 target. That is quite a a very good range...

 

[Donatello]

It says that JF 17 KLJ has a search range of 130 Km's for 3m2 target. That is quite a a very good range...

Yes, that is why PAF is happy with it. A Su30 size target could be detected at 170km or so, plus the new SD10Bs will have range closer or beyond 100km. So all in all it is a very good package and alongside F-16s, it can take on anything currently flying in the subcontinent.

 

[Zarvan]

Yes, that is why PAF is happy with it. A Su30 size target could be detected at 170km or so, plus the new SD10Bs will have range closer or beyond 100km. So all in all it is a very good package and alongside F-16s, it can take on anything currently flying in the subcontinent.

Sir How many JF-17 and F-16 we could get because we need more than 400 Fighter Jets and we would have to retire F-7 and Mirages in coming years

 

[datalibdaz]

Yes, that is why PAF is happy with it. A Su30 size target could be detected at 170km or so, plus the new SD10Bs will have range closer or beyond 100km. So all in all it is a very good package and alongside F-16s, it can take on anything currently flying in the subcontinent.

Most of members were quoting 130 km for 5m2 target and somewhere 100 km's for 3m2 target...Yes you are right, JF17 will detect Su30 at 170 km or even beyond 180 km's..

 

[Donatello]

Sir How many JF-17 and F-16 we could get because we need more than 400 Fighter Jets and we would have to retire F-7 and Mirages in coming years

Well, the initial plan is to get 150 JF-17s and PAF is scooping around for more F-16s to bring total to 100. So that gives a punch force of 250 in the next 8 years. By that time, most MirageIII/V would be retired (with only ROSE surviving) and Some 50 odd F-7PGs since they are still useful due to their BVR weapons. So my conservative guess would be by 2020 PAF would have 150 JF-17s, 100 F-16s and 50-60 Mirage/F-7PG for a total of 300 Aircraft. But each JF-17 that is added gives a monumental boost over the vintage F-7s and Mirage. So there will be no one on one replacement. There are conflicting views coming in from different sources, like in some interview PAF personal looking at 200 JF-17s. Obviously more is better, but funds are the main issue.

Most of members were quoting 130 km for 5m2 target and somewhere 100 km's for 3m2 target...Yes you are right, JF17 will detect Su30 at 170 km or even beyond 180 km's..

There are conflicting reports everywhere. On Chinese forums and Pakistani ones. However, i guess the actual range will never be known, but from different interviews of PAF personal, it seems they are very happy with the current KLJ7, with room for upgrade. The good thing about radars is that they can be continuously upgraded and retrofitted to older aircraft as well.

 

[Zarvan]

Well, the initial plan is to get 150 JF-17s and PAF is scooping around for more F-16s to bring total to 100. So that gives a punch force of 250 in the next 8 years. By that time, most MirageIII/V would be retired (with only ROSE surviving) and Some 50 odd F-7PGs since they are still useful due to their BVR weapons. So my conservative guess would be by 2020 PAF would have 150 JF-17s, 100 F-16s and 50-60 Mirage/F-7PG for a total of 300 Aircraft. But each JF-17 that is added gives a monumental boost over the vintage F-7s and Mirage. So there will be no one on one replacement. There are conflicting views coming in from different sources, like in some interview PAF personal looking at 200 JF-17s. Obviously more is better, but funds are the main issue.



There are conflicting reports everywhere. On Chinese forums and Pakistani ones. However, i guess the actual range will never be known, but from different interviews of PAF personal, it seems they are very happy with the current KLJ7, with room for upgrade. The good thing about radars is that they can be continuously upgraded and retrofitted to older aircraft as well.

Sir only 300 Air Craft Sir that is not good number we need Sir more than 400 Air Craft Sir 300 is very less Sir

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

Sir only 300 Air Craft Sir that is not good number we need Sir more than 400 Air Craft Sir 300 is very less Sir

I think if we get any export order then we might be able to get 250 JF-17 otherwise it will be around 150 to 175...

100 F-16 look realistic in next 3 to 4 years.... But we need to bombard F-16 in tribal to get that..

 

[Chak Bamu]

I have serious reservation about 130 KM range for 3 sq M target. If we were to just believe it, we would be making the typical fan-boy mistake. The contents of this post (its not an article) rest on the reputation of the poster with username of jiaofly999. If he is known to be a careful poster who does not indulge in speculation, even then we should take these figures with a pinch of salt.

But one thing we can be sure of from that post (and no reason to doubt it) is the level of give-and-take between J-10 & FC-1 programs. So, as we have discussed the issue of not desperately needing J-10, there is a lot of basis for that.

@Zarvan, please rest easy, we can not have 400 aircraft just like that. We do not have the economy for it. Even getting to 300 would be a struggle. I do hope for 320+, but that is just me.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

We need nano technology for radar....

 

[hussain0216]

Sir only 300 Air Craft Sir that is not good number we need Sir more than 400 Air Craft Sir 300 is very less Sir

Our intial order for JF17's is 150 & we will have atleast 100 F-16's

We will also have for the next decade or two atleast 50-100 Mirages and F7's (once we retired alot of the ones we have at the moment). These will be fine for area defence and support but eventually all will be phased out

So In total by 2020 we will have 300-350 anyway


We will go for a 5th gen option at some point and after a period of time (depending on how far we go with JF17 development) we will stop getting the F-16's


JF-17 production will continue past 150, whenever we retire the older planes I expect Pakistan to keep adding JF17's in small batches and I wouldnt be suprised if in the end we had between 200-250 JF17's. This is OUR fighter that we can build and modify with no strings attached. The real question will be how close JF17 Block 3/4/5 etc will be to the performace of the F-16
If it can match it or in some cases exceed it in the coming years then we are all set to make the JF 17 our all round, multi role all weather fighter which we will supplement with 5th gen air craft.

There is also a chance that we may go for a 3rd fighter (personel opinion) if for whatever reason the future JF17's blocks are lacking in anyway or are not suitable for a specific role e.g naval we may go for a moderate number of an alternative fighter just to cover the intended role and give us more punch

 

[Tempest II]

I have serious reservation about 130 KM range for 3 sq M target. If we were to just believe it, we would be making the typical fan-boy mistake. .

I am skeptical too but what about this? ... ... What is the typical RCS for an F-16 which here is detected around 120km.

 

[Informant]

I have serious reservation about 130 KM range for 3 sq M target. If we were to just believe it, we would be making the typical fan-boy mistake. The contents of this post (its not an article) rest on the reputation of the poster with username of jiaofly999. If he is known to be a careful poster who does not indulge in speculation, even then we should take these figures with a pinch of salt.

But one thing we can be sure of from that post (and no reason to doubt it) is the level of give-and-take between J-10 & FC-1 programs. So, as we have discussed the issue of not desperately needing J-10, there is a lot of basis for that.

@Zarvan, please rest easy, we can not have 400 aircraft just like that. We do not have the economy for it. Even getting to 300 would be a struggle. I do hope for 320+, but that is just me.

100-110km for 3 square meters.

 

[datalibdaz]

I am skeptical too but what about this? ... ... What is the typical RCS for an F-16 which here is detected around 120km.

it depends, for Clean F16 RCS is 1.5m2, for Loaded it ranges between 3-5m2

 

[Bilal.]

Is the RD-93MA coming with block II?

 

[sancho]

I am skeptical too but what about this? ... ... What is the typical RCS for an F-16 which here is detected around 120km.

Typical target size for puls doppler radars is 5m² and that's also the size that the KJ 7 manufacturer states:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/SlZR_OtAy3I/AAAAAAAAAzw/6KlQvpDYNfY/s1600/JF-17+Thunder's+MMR.JPG

If the radar got some improvements as often shown here, a detection of 130Km against a 5m² target would indeed be pretty good, but the target size remains the same.

Does not matter. They can use Migs to kill their own people to their heart's content. I can not forget what happened in Egypt on 14 August 2013.

The article is wrong, they are interested in Mig 29SMTs and Mi 35 combat helicopters, which some media reports simply mixed up to Mig 35s. However, loosing out against Mig 29SMT on that marked would be a blow for Pakistan and for JF 17.

What is difference between rd93 and rd93ma????

The earlier is based on the old RD 33-3 series (older Mig 29s), the latter on the more modern RD 33MK (latest Mig 29K and Mig 35). It has more afterburner thrust, slight advantages in dry thrust, but also longer engine life and finally is not smoking anymore, like the older versions still do.