JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[danger007]

russian tech is not that good i mean look at how many crashes IAF had Syria is getting blown to pieces all they have is russian hardware and Indian home made engine failed but General ELectric Came to rescue and gave them the TOT for the same engine which Gripen Used and achieved Supercruise But LCA failed (i guess Design Flaws on the aerodynamics) I mean we can buy Same thing From FRANCE since their are no sanctions or even Sweden or Ukraine which will also Help China Gain Technical Advantange in their Engine Department given these Countries are willing to ToT and The Money problem can be solved by using Some of that War on TERROR AID money From the USA to fianace these projects its definatley do able

funny thing is all the chinese fighters based on the Russian tech...

 

[bigzgvr4]

funny thing is all the chinese fighters based on the Russian tech...

Yea based on Russian TECH not russian TEch huge difference and All Russian Planes are Based on American TEch but are not AMerican TECH see the difference Stay on topic if you qoute and want to add some thing please do but also share your thoughts about the topic at hand so it does not drift

I think france will be able to give us TOT of mirage 2000 engines or a hybrid for Jf-17 better then 2000 considering no one is buying their Planes and countries are stalling them I think PAF is reluctant to buy more jf-17 because of the problems they faced in the intial test with the Russian Engine which they had to fix by adding DSI and other goodies which was a positive but Paf should seriously look for different engine source

 

[Luftwaffe]

@INDIAISM, The subject is not IAF take it to appropriate section.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I think france will be able to give us TOT of mirage 2000 engines or a hybrid for Jf-17 better then 2000 considering no one is buying their Planes and countries are stalling them I think PAF is reluctant to buy more jf-17 because of the problems they faced in the intial test with the Russian Engine which they had to fix by adding DSI and other goodies which was a positive but Paf should seriously look for different engine source

Are you kidding us, China could not produce replica of AL-31 up till now all Engines Types are under evaluation and limited in production, it has been 10 Years after RD-93 purchase for JF-17/FC-1, they still did not give a go ahead for the production of WS-13. Even with complete transfer of technology PAF can't and won't develop SNECMA M53, you need to absorb enough information on engine development before you jump into this field.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Gosh.. I dont know what some people think of BVR?
Its seems that everything in "Aerial Battlefield" has ended up and only BVR has remained. For God sake, uptill now largest numbers of kill are owned to WVR missiles. From desert storm-1 to desert storm-2, Bosnian air campaign and so for. If i remember correctly there are only 6 or 7 kills owing to BVR and that too of slow moving undefended aircrafts not fighters.

BVR engagement is not as a duel, which we used to see in wild west American movies. Its not that 2 planes coming straight into each other, at same height, shoot BVRs at each other. If that would have been the case sure, Indians will win every time. But the reality bites really hard. There is no such thing as magic wand nor the wars are like we see in movies.

In bvr engagements, dozens of factors are involved. Speed, height, ECM, Ground radars, SAMS cover, number of air crafts and above all pressure of war. Fear of dying. No one ever could replicate that in words, only those knew who are in that scenario for real.

Discussing bvrs will be out of context, but for one second just tell me, if 2 planes coming towards each other with mach 1 speed. They are let suppose at 80kms apart. How much time will pass before they are within visual range? Dear its matter of seconds not even minutes. At least up till now, days of dog fights are not over. IF that would have been the case WVRs and Guns in 4+++ generations would not have been in existence.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

If paf is to maintain current fleet strength of 22 to 26 sqnsthere only option very cheap jf17 or grant aid f16 from USAy

JF-17 was never meant to be the sole aircraft of PAF. If you really want to quantify JF-17, compare it on following terms:

A-5 with JF-17
Mirage III/V with JF-17
F-7 with JF-17

These are the planes, PAF wanted to replace. Compare the specs of JF-17 with these planes and then calculate the %age improvement in PAF's operational capabilities. The number of aircraft/squadrons will remain constant.
If someone is comparing JF-17 with medium or heavy multirole fighters, he is on the wrong thought.

 

[Gentelman]

As far as FBW is concerned, I have read the reports and it is not complete FBW system. Anyways , if other reports of achieving speed of Mach 2.0 with increased load of 0.3 ton is true, then it's really impressive. But I would request you to provide link for this as I have not heard anything about it.

And compared it to J-10 is simply not accepted. Multi-role word in itself is vague. It's about the overall capability of a fighter in achieving different tasks. And J-10 is way ahead of Jf-17.

And do you have any official link(not wiki) stating ITR, STR, AoA,etc capability of Jf-17. If yes, please provide it to me.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/71435-jf-17-thunder-information-pool-30.html
chk out info about PT-04
well usually such things are disclosed and who know till now how many things are disclosed……
well J-10 is something else and JFT is something else so both should not be compared……
and yeah J-10 can't be compared coz of its payload and AESW radar but it has engine issues……

 

[INDIAISM]

As you may have noticed from the failed Indian attempts and the inconclusive results of the various Chinese ventures, engine technology is not easy to come by. You need advanced metallurgy and expertise in other fields which we dont have. If you think Russia will give you the engine technology you are gravely mistaken. Your only bet maybe Ukraine or China but even then the cost qould be unaffordable. The befter thing might be simple overhaul service which may have been discussed at the last meeting between PAF and the russian guests.
Araz

Sir you are talking about Engine Technology here and No country in this world is going to give you that technology if needed you yourself will have to earn this technology by investing in your R&D their is no shortcut in this Tech....India and China both has realised that.....Damm you can't fly your own jets without Russian or American Engine....

 

[fatman17]

JF-17 was never meant to be the sole aircraft of PAF. If you really want to quantify JF-17, compare it on following terms:

A-5 with JF-17
Mirage III/V with JF-17
F-7 with JF-17

These are the planes, PAF wanted to replace. Compare the specs of JF-17 with these planes and then calculate the %age improvement in PAF's operational capabilities. The number of aircraft/squadrons will remain constant.
If someone is comparing JF-17 with medium or heavy multirole fighters, he is on the wrong thought.

i would add India's LCA and MiG-29 to this list also.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

If paf is to maintain current fleet strength of 22 to 26 sqnsthere only option very cheap jf17 or grant aid f16 from USAy

With limited budget PAF replacing those aging fighters with BVR capable Jf17's, Generation ahead of it's predecessors. Chinese AeW&C linked with J17's can prove tricky in securing airspace. cost effective solution

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Pp

Silly argument, a big heavily loaded plane just makes for a bigger target for AMRAAMS or SD 10s fired from small and nimble F16s or JF17s. The surviving Mkis will, most probably, will not have airbases to go back to as they would be taken out by missiles. You don't know what multiple role means. Try getting into a dog fight with a full load of bombs.

In simple words, Su30Mki use brute force, One or More ELTA El/M-8222, powerful radar, Loaded with BVR salvos is the answer. Thread is Not For Mki vs PAF, don't quote

 

[hurt]

funny thing is all the chinese fighters based on the Russian tech...

PLZ tell me what the Russian tech are J-10,J-20 and J-31 base on ?

 

[Viper0011.]

In simple words, Su30Mki use brute force, One or More ELTA El/M-8222, powerful radar, Loaded with BVR salvos is the answer. Thread is Not For Mki vs PAF, don't quote

Two SU-30's loaded with 10 bvr's each.....find two JF-17's on the other end. The locks are made and bvr's away. JFT's fire two BVR's per SU-30, getting a hit on both. SU-30's also fire bvr's (how many??? 10 for each JFT?) and take down the JFT's. Let's do the math who took a cost hit ten times more than the other????
In Indo-Pak's scenario, the 300-400 KM radar is ONLY sufficient if it used for AEW purposes. Outside of that, all 4th gen planes will see each other and can lock onto each other at relatively the same time. The missile - bomb truck concept of SU-30 isn't applicable here due to the short distance between airbases around the border in India and Pakistan's case.

The scenario above was on the offense. But defensively, the same two SU-30's can provide CAP and can probably target 10-20 incoming boggies. But that's defensive. Due to this, the other side is focusing more on precision, rocket powered and missile based munitions so they can launch them from 50-100 km away and not having to directly make contact with the defensive SU-30 team.

 

[Jango]

Keep Indian airforce and comparisons out of this thread.

 

[danger007]

Two SU-30's loaded with 10 bvr's each.....find two JF-17's on the other end. The locks are made and bvr's away. JFT's fire two BVR's per SU-30, getting a hit on both. SU-30's also fire bvr's (how many??? 10 for each JFT?) and take down the JFT's. Let's do the math who took a cost hit ten times more than the other????
In Indo-Pak's scenario, the 300-400 KM radar is ONLY sufficient if it used for AEW purposes. Outside of that, all 4th gen planes will see each other and can lock onto each other at relatively the same time. The missile - bomb truck concept of SU-30 isn't applicable here due to the short distance between airbases around the border in India and Pakistan's case.

The scenario above was on the offense. But defensively, the same two SU-30's can provide CAP and can probably target 10-20 incoming boggies. But that's defensive. Due to this, the other side is focusing more on precision, rocket powered and missile based munitions so they can launch them from 50-100 km away and not having to directly make contact with the defensive SU-30 team.

so u r saying SU-30 is defensive while JFT is offensive? lol funny claim... so u think JFT with 2 bvr missile will get down MKI and move away? what if JFT miss the fire?