JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[GURU DUTT]

No it was not a joke, I was being sarcastic if you didn't get it. The question you asked had been asked million times and answered zillion times, and mark my words, JF-17 will remain a JF-17 even after block 4, if there is ever a block 4.

F-16 came out in late 60's early 70's . It is still the same F-16 after four decades of technological leaps and bounds of aerospace industry, with limited upgrades in gadgetry, it didn't transformed in to F-35 or F-22. Same will be the case with subsequent blocks of Thunder, limited upgrades in gadgetry, and for three reasons. One- acute shortage of funding, two- total dependence on China, three- designed role of the aircraft.

If anyone thinks Thunder will transform into something totally different, then the answer is a BIG NO.

so good u aknowledged it mate but do you think JF 17 is enof for pakistan to force india to come on table for talk i guess it is too little too late pakistan shpould go for something like a eruofighter or maybe Grippen other wise as things are going you cantrt relay on F16 for too long specially after 2014 and till then the things in naiburhood will be quite diffirent and difficult for PAF to sustain a credible force ...any way good luck

 

[Zarvan]

No it was not a joke, I was being sarcastic if you didn't get it. The question you asked had been asked million times and answered zillion times, and mark my words, JF-17 will remain a JF-17 even after block 4, if there is ever a block 4.

F-16 came out in late 60's early 70's . It is still the same F-16 after four decades of technological leaps and bounds of aerospace industry, with limited upgrades in gadgetry, it didn't transformed in to F-35 or F-22. Same will be the case with subsequent blocks of Thunder, limited upgrades in gadgetry, and for three reasons. One- acute shortage of funding, two- total dependence on China, three- designed role of the aircraft.

If anyone thinks Thunder will transform into something totally different, then the answer is a BIG NO.

Sir Pakistan when starts new project it often names it with the older one JF-17 will have some better avionics and engine and some addition in Armament but JF-17 Block III will be completely new plane because it is stealth on which work has started their are high chance it will be named something else but for start they have named it JF-17 Block III

 

[Tempest II]

According to the latest Take-Off magazine (TO26) the Damocles POD on the Flankers performs as follows:

According to the official data at the Thales web site, the Damocles podded optronic system (the pod weighs 265 kg and is 2.5 m long) handles the surface search, target acquisition, identification and tracking, laser spot detectionand target ranging and designation for laser-guided weapons, including smart bombs.

To this end, it has the thermal imaging capability with the 3–5 micron wavelength as well as two laser channels: a 1.5 micron eye-safe ranging laser and a target illumination laser. The thermal imager’s extra-wide field of vision in the navigation
mode measures 24x18°, wide one – 4x3° and narrow one – 1x0.75°. The twofold electronic magnification (zoom) is possible.

The 3–5 micron infrared NAVFLIR navigation system has the front-hemisphere lookdown/lookup capability with the 24x18° optical field of view (the electronic zoom with 12x9° angle of view) and shows the resultant imagery on the HUD and/or MFDs. The acquisition and identification range for objects measuring 20x20 m is 10–12 km and those for 100x100 m objects is 22.5–50 km. The system, except the pod and cooling system, weighs mere 20 kg.

Data for the WMD-7 (here CHN - WMD-7 :: Targeting and Navigation Pods :: Special Weapon Systems and on brochure is

WMD-7
Suspended container screening and targeting with infrared, laser sensors, and television.
It is designed to search, recognize and identify targets day or night using infrared sensors, and television. It enables automatic target tracking, provides information about the distance and direction to the target shooting system for carriers. It is equipped with a laser designator and objectives to guide laser guided munitions. It provides visual information to assess the state of destination.

Length: 2.700 m
Score: 0.390 m
Weight: 280 kg

Operating range (target 12m x 12m x 10m):
ID: finding targets over 20 km, the identification of over 15 km
TV: Check the destination of over 22 km, the identification of over 17 km
Max. distance for a laser designator marking targets: over 13km

Note that on the Damocles, the range increasing 5-fold (from 10km to 50 km) for a 5-fold increase in size (from 20m x 20m ro 100m x 100m). By the same logic, (ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL) if the WMD-7 can detect a 12m x 12m target at 15km, then it will detect a 20m x 20m object at 25km and a 100m x 100m object at 125km.

Here they say: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/litening.htm

Litening II can acquire targets altitudes of up to 40,000 feet, versus the 25,000 feet typical of the LANTIRN pod.

How can one understand/translate the given max altitudes to horizontal range? … … I know the object size is not given and also that atmospheric conditions mean the horizontal range is different from the vertical range. … … I am assuming though that the vertical range is greater (???) because the is less moisture and dust at higher altitudes … ???

40,000 ft and 25,000 ft translate to 12.192km and 7.62km respectively. The statement “up to 40,000 feet” suggest maximum range and would be for an object directly below the plane and or a relatively large size. I.e. they are advertising the maximum/optimum conditions.
My logic for the above is the WMD-7 is at least a 3rd Gen LDP and no inferior to the Litening II and its counterparts of that generation.

 

[Luftwaffe]

No it was not a joke, I was being sarcastic if you didn't get it. The question you asked had been asked million times and answered zillion times, and mark my words, JF-17 will remain a JF-17 even after block 4, if there is ever a block 4.

F-16 came out in late 60's early 70's . It is still the same F-16 after four decades of technological leaps and bounds of aerospace industry, with limited upgrades in gadgetry, it didn't transformed in to F-35 or F-22. Same will be the case with subsequent blocks of Thunder, limited upgrades in gadgetry, and for three reasons. One- acute shortage of funding, two- total dependence on China, three- designed role of the aircraft.

Nice Joke regarding F-16 can we continue serious discussion rather then funny "with limited upgrades in gadgetry".

 

[alimobin memon]

I was looking through the pics of Calender 2013 "PAF" i found in december 2013 calender that Jf17 is equipped with WMD-7 and Mutiple ejector racks equipped with Precision drop bombs ? is it fake or real ?

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

I was looking through the pics of Calender 2013 "PAF" i found in december 2013 calender that Jf17 is equipped with WMD-7 and Mutiple ejector racks equipped with Precision drop bombs ? is it fake or real ?

If you ask me, i don't even wana look at PAF Calendar 2013. They made it awfully Wrose.
Even though, when last time I checked it , it had no such image.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

When it comes to fighter jets,the goal is always to make progress with in the league.

JFT belongs to the 4th generation.It'll progress in the process of development from Block-1 to Block-3, to be called a 4th/4++ generation patform.If you say that a fourth generation JFT ended up being called a 5th generation as an upgraded version,then this involves some radical changes.And you'll be talking about another plane, not this one.
That's a no brainer.

• The Mig-29(4th) was a precursor to Mig-35.(4++)

• And SU-27(4th) was a forerunner for Su-35.

• Same applies to the F-16s and other platforms.

While saying that, our industry including that of chinese still has a lot of ground to cover to be able to match to that of the Russians.Limitations will always be there.

 

[Beast]

so good u aknowledged it mate but do you think JF 17 is enof for pakistan to force india to come on table for talk i guess it is too little too late pakistan shpould go for something like a eruofighter or maybe Grippen other wise as things are going you cantrt relay on F16 for too long specially after 2014 and till then the things in naiburhood will be quite diffirent and difficult for PAF to sustain a credible force ...any way good luck

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...ng-term-storage&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107

Twelve of the South African Air Force’s 26 Gripen fighter jets are in long-term storage, according to defence minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula, as the Air Force does not have the funding to fly them.

Thank God! PAF didn't go for Gripen or Eurofighter..

 

[Beast]

While saying that, our industry including that of chinese still has a lot of ground to cover to be able to match to that of the Russians.Limitations will always be there.

China probably needs to catch up the American but definitely not the Russian. China is the only country after American to run 2 parallel 5th gen fighter programs. While China J-20 level of finishing and design way surpass what Russian the best can muster like T-50,to match us.

Chengdu J-XX [J-20] Stealth Fighter Prototype / A Preliminary Assessment

Please read 1 - 15 from the above link.

China is the only country besides US to offer a fully workable attack advance UAV that can do surveilance, recon, dropping PGM and fire ATGM. Even the Russian recently needs to buy UAV from Israel to update their Airforce while China basically build all its own UAV ever since we stop buying harpy from Israel in the early 2000.

Plus the the number of new type of AEW (Y-AEW)and AWACS(KJ-200, KJ-2000) introduced into the PLAAF and PLANAF, its something Russian has hardly can keep up with us.

 

[alimobin memon]

If you ask me, i don't even wana look at PAF Calendar 2013. They made it awfully Wrose.
Even though, when last time I checked it , it had no such image.

http://www.pafwallpapers.com/PAF_calendar/pakistan_air_force_paf_wallpaper_calendar_2013_12.jpg

u can see in left im talking about that.

 

[Thorough Pro]

What else would you call that, in reality block 50/52 is more radar observable due to angular spine as compared to original block 15/16. Regarding physical appearance, there are no significant changes in airframe and most upgrades are limited to equipment only.

And this is serious discussion, what is serious for you Thunder transforming into super stealth platform with super cruise, T/W ratio of 2.5, 13 hard points, AESA Radar capable of 360 coverage out to 600 nautical miles?

Nice Joke regarding F-16 can we continue serious discussion rather then funny "with limited upgrades in gadgetry".

 

[Thorough Pro]

You are stating these rumors as hard facts as you know them first hand? If you do know about block III, how come you are asking questions about IFR on block II? As a passionate patriotic Pakistani, I too want to see Pakistan advancing in this field, but while I dream for the stars, I keep my feet planted on the ground, and ground reality is there will only be equipment upgrades, we don't have financial or technical resources to accomplish the dream world stuff you mentioned, We don't have the capability to turn Thunder in to stealth and China will not do it for us, cause they have their own multiple programs for stealth jets. Stealth jets are designed as stealth from the beginning, they need new technologies to be built for them, you can not just grab any conventional platform and transform it into stealth, if it was possible, Us would have transform F15, F16, and F18 into stealth instead of wasting billions on F117, F22, and F35. Russia would have done the same with Mig29 or Su30, instead of investing on PAKFGFA, China would have done the same with J10, instead of J31, etc.

We have not yet succeeded in making an operational armed UCAV despite technical collaboration with many countries and comparatively low investment requirement and you are talking about Stealth program.

Sir Pakistan when starts new project it often names it with the older one JF-17 will have some better avionics and engine and some addition in Armament but JF-17 Block III will be completely new plane because it is stealth on which work has started their are high chance it will be named something else but for start they have named it JF-17 Block III

 

[Thorough Pro]

I acknowledged what? Where did you barged into this discussion?

Why would Pakistan need to force india to come to table?

Why can't we rely on F16 after 2014, do they expire after that?

Nothings changing in the neighbourhood, the scum would remain a scum. It doesn't make any difference if an impotent scum sleeps with a ***** or princesses, I don't think you'll be able to comprehend this one, so I'll make it easy for you, whether IAF pilots fly Mig21 or SU30MKI or Rafael, they are the same for PAF.

so good u aknowledged it mate but do you think JF 17 is enof for pakistan to force india to come on table for talk i guess it is too little too late pakistan shpould go for something like a eruofighter or maybe Grippen other wise as things are going you cantrt relay on F16 for too long specially after 2014 and till then the things in naiburhood will be quite diffirent and difficult for PAF to sustain a credible force ...any way good luck

 

[genmirajborgza786]

What else would you call that, in reality block 50/52 is more radar observable due to angular spine as compared to original block 15/16. Regarding physical appearance, there are no significant changes in airframe and most upgrades are limited to equipment only.

And this is serious discussion, what is serious for you Thunder transforming into super stealth platform with super cruise, T/W ratio of 2.5, 13 hard points, AESA Radar capable of 360 coverage out to 600 nautical miles?

oh bhai ,are you here to discuss or fight ?
this is an important thread, talk to your seniors with respect

 

[Kompromat]

I have some Questions........,
Is the rumor true that the 4th SAAB-2000 Erieye AWACS of PAF was destroyed during Terrorist Attack on Kamra ?

How many Thunders are finished, and is the First 50 batch completed already or yet awaiting delivery of final Units ?
Its April 6, 2013 today.....If the 50 Units are delivered then where is the 3rd Squadron ?

Don't have any ans for that yet.