JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[Titanium]

China to Re-Export Russian Jet Engine

The Russian Federal Military Technology Cooperation Service has permitted China to re-export Russian RD-93 fighter jet engines as part of FC-1 Chinese-Pakistani planes to six countries, including Algeria, which, until now, has only bought Russian jets. Besides Pakistan and Algeria, the countries that will receive the planes are Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia.

The presence of Algeria on the list was unexpected. It is the third-largest buyer of Russian military hardware and has only purchased coast guard boats and Kalashnikov plants from China so far. Russia signed a contract with Algeria in March 2006 for the delivery of 28 MiG-29SMT and 6 MiG-29UB planes. However, the Algerian government complained about the quality of the planes immediately after the first deliveries. Russia offered to replace two of the planes, which were manufactured by the Sokol plant in Nizhny Novgorod after Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika wrote to Russian President Vladimir Putin, but Algeria did not respond to that suggestion. Observers say that the country's interest in the FC-1 may be due to its disappointment with the MiGs, although the FC-1 is much less militarily effective.

The FC-1 (known as the JF-17 in Pakistan) is the first Chinese multifunctional fighter jet created for the foreign market. Design of the aircraft began in the early 1990s by Chengdu Aircraft Industry. Pakistan paid for about half of the design costs ($75 million). The Russian RD-93 engines for it were designed by the Klimov company and are manufactured by Chernyshev Moscow Heavy Machinery Enterprise. Rosoboronexport struck a $238-million deal for the first 100 engines for the craft in 2005.

Pakistan is the only country that has signed a for the purchase of the aircraft so far. Besides the countries that plan to sign contracts, Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka have expressed interest in it.

 

[EagleEyes]

It is a Russian news source. Why would it not say that it is less effective fighter. One thing the officials of the air forces around the world do realize is that the JF-17 is the most cost effective and modern solution!

 

[araz]

China to Re-Export Russian Jet Engine

The Russian Federal Military Technology Cooperation Service has permitted China to re-export Russian RD-93 fighter jet engines as part of FC-1 Chinese-Pakistani planes to six countries, including Algeria, which, until now, has only bought Russian jets. Besides Pakistan and Algeria, the countries that will receive the planes are Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia.

The presence of Algeria on the list was unexpected. It is the third-largest buyer of Russian military hardware and has only purchased coast guard boats and Kalashnikov plants from China so far. Russia signed a contract with Algeria in March 2006 for the delivery of 28 MiG-29SMT and 6 MiG-29UB planes. However, the Algerian government complained about the quality of the planes immediately after the first deliveries. Russia offered to replace two of the planes, which were manufactured by the Sokol plant in Nizhny Novgorod after Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika wrote to Russian President Vladimir Putin, but Algeria did not respond to that suggestion. Observers say that the country's interest in the FC-1 may be due to its disappointment with the MiGs, although the FC-1 is much less militarily effective.

The FC-1 (known as the JF-17 in Pakistan) is the first Chinese multifunctional fighter jet created for the foreign market. Design of the aircraft began in the early 1990s by Chengdu Aircraft Industry. Pakistan paid for about half of the design costs ($75 million). The Russian RD-93 engines for it were designed by the Klimov company and are manufactured by Chernyshev Moscow Heavy Machinery Enterprise. Rosoboronexport struck a $238-million deal for the first 100 engines for the craft in 2005.

Pakistan is the only country that has signed a for the purchase of the aircraft so far. Besides the countries that plan to sign contracts, Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka have expressed interest in it.

Again a news item with some vested interest.It is a pity that our journalists dont learn to project the image of Pakistan and all things Pakistani a bit better. the bottom line is that JF17 is the only fighter plane designed at the express requests of an airforce. It is untried, but the interest shown in it has got a lot of countries, including the Russians worried. If people are showing interest, then it must be good. However the proof will lie in the pudding---ie how many countries actually end up buying the plane.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[IceCold]

If russia seems to be having problems selling its migs as compared to the JFs, they might turn to plan B which is to block the sale of RD-93 for export. Which will be a set back to the whole programe until ws-13 gets into final development phase.

 

[gpit]

Maybe this is Russian's best option.

Given the fact that WS-13 has been certified, if the Russians would refuse the re-export, within a few years, they don't even have a chance to sell their RD engines.

 

[gpit]

China to Re-Export Russian Jet Engine

...

... Observers say that the country's interest in the FC-1 may be due to its disappointment with the MiGs, although ...

...

Sounds like Russia pissed off a lot of its clients.

 

[ejaz007]

I don’t think Russia stands to loose anything. JF-17 has not yet won any contract by beating Russian MIG’s and no regular Russian client has shown interest in JF-17 other than perhaps to some extent Algeria. They too showed interest because MIG supplied to them had some technical problems.

The only country other than Pakistan that is going to include JF-17 most likely is going to be China. China has not placed any order for MIG or even for Flankers lately. So Russians are not going to loose any order. However, if they block the sale of engines approximately around 250 of which shall eventually be ordered than they stand to loose a lot financially. The only harm JF-17 program is going to suffer is to be delayed by some years if engines are not available but ultimately replacement engine shall be available and the program back on track.

Therefore now I don’t see any major hurdle being created by Russians.

 

[ahussains]

Well its seems to be a nice achivment by the Chinees and Pakistan engineer who are invoolved in this project and so far every thing goes extremly fine and hope so it also goes fine in the future

 

[thefox]

don't think it will make russian's loose any customer's.
anycase looks a neat plane to me,fc-1 that's.

 

[ahussains]

What are the configuration for the other countries how differ they are with the PAF models ..

 

[EagleEyes]

What are the configuration for the other countries how differ they are with the PAF models ..

I am pretty sure that configurations will remain same at the most, but sure they might have a choice between radars and package they would like.

We still have to see that however.

 

[EagleEyes]

According to a reliable PAF source on our sister site. Here is an update for you guys from PakDef.

Some more interesting news. We are aware of many of them. But thought that let me share what I heard recently.

We have seen the controversy regarding the JF-17 engines but now this matter is amicably resolved. And as result Pakistan has received the small batch of two (SBP) this year and doubts subsided. Before the end of this year, another six similar fighters are expected to arrive in Pakistan together with arms and the whole system within this month.

According to plan, the first installment of Pakistan produced- JF-17 next year will have air refueling capability with further improvements in the design. The new production JF-17 will be inducted in 2009. By 2015 Pakistan Air Force plans to replace all the A-5C (strong 5 - C), Mirage 3 and 5, and F-7 - P / PG.

In addition, the activities with and by foreign buyers has already started and a number of countries have shown strong interest in the JF-17.

In regards to the engines, Pakistan is not involved in the Sino-Russian RD-93 engine contract, but the Russians have made an oral commitment to Pakistan that it will not stop the transfer of RD-93 engines.
Taking into account the development of engine technology in the next RD-93 may be the new RD-93B replacement. The new engine thrust will have 10% increase. At the same time China is also developing its own aircraft engine and it may actually produce the RD-93B in China and that will ensure the supply of Jf-17 engines in the long run.

My Pakistani sources say that the new engine’s performance is superior to RD-93. More composite material will be added to the Fuselage. JF-17's Thrust-Weight Ratio will increase with increase in thrust.

The new engine will also provide China and Pakistan with advantage and will enable JF-17 to compete directly with the Russian MIG-29OVT

JF-17 in other areas have also been improved. Aerodynamic improvements have increased their mobility, as well as the ability to engage in a variety of tasks. The small batches manufactured JF-17 is likely to represent the ultimate models of aircraft body Design. Particularly noteworthy is the central fuselage of DSI inlet used in the JF-17 has brought some stealth capability. Other improvements include reduced body weight, through redesigned interior more space has been created, an increase of the fuel carrying capacity, and increased range. Aircraft will achieve speed of 1.8 Mach. After the the improved engine, aircraft’s performance will further be enhanced. The new information shows that the current design will be frozen for the next three years before some further changes are introduced.

Other internal changes that are taking place include the introduction of entire telex control and a more advanced electronic equipment. The new batches will include an IRST. The JF-17 has the all-glass cockpit as we already know, and the first 50 JF-17 will be installed with KLJ-10 radar. Pakistan Air Force is very satisfied with the performance of this radar

In fact there is a reason for making the KLJ-10 radar development very important as it will be put into the first batch of JF-17 for launch of SD-10 giving them the BVR capability. Pakistan Air Force has sought this core capability for a long time, and the JF-17 will be able to shoulder the huge air defense burden. Though there has benn some recent talk of Rc-400 and they may be integrated with the 2nd batch production, Pakistan Air Force ultimately will choose a more advanced AESA radar and the negotiation are already underway with Western suppliers unless China who has been working to develop one can come up with the AESA soon. PAF has not made a decision yet, but it is believed that with the second batch of JF-17 military service, the issue will be resolved .

Finally, the Pakistan Air Force will also use the data chain technology to achieve communication between different platforms for safety data transmission. In 2009 PAF expect to have Saab 2000 ready and gain the ability to use data links, JF-17 will also possesses advanced electronic warfare system, which is still in shrouds, New aircrafts will also have the missile attack Early Warning System (MAWS) sensors. With the new improvements in electronic warfare capability, PAF bekieves that the JF-17 once put into service will be second only to the F-16C BLOCK 52.

Domestic production JF-17

In 2008, Pakistan is confident of producing annualy 15 aircrafts, and gradually increase to an annual 25 to 30. Pakistan may double the production capacity if pAF wants the replacement of existing inventory on rapid and enhanced time table.

Pakistan is also hoping that 50% of the electronics and fuselage will be locally produced in Pakistan.

 

[EagleEyes]

Most of the stuff we already know. But highlights we may call them?

There is something interesting about engine. RD-93B, the one which earlier reported with the "engine problem articles" that if Russia approves engine to Pakistan. The Russian company will help the Chinese to build an improved version of RD-93 (Now version B) with improved thrust..under license, which will definitely make a difference in the maneuverability of the JF-17, and we may assume that it will fix the smoke problem (not to say that in the actual RD-93 it may not have been fixed).

Its definitely a milestone as far as powering of the JF-17 is concerned. Just the radar/weapons package is left.. and the beast is here to serve the PAF for years to come.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Very, very, very good developments and a very informative post Webby!

Pakistan Air Force ultimately will choose a more advanced AESA radar and the negotiation are already underway with Western suppliers unless China who has been working to develop one can come up with the AESA soon. PAF has not made a decision yet, but it is believed that with the second batch of JF-17 military service, the issue will be resolved .

Finally, the Pakistan Air Force will also use the data chain technology to achieve communication between different platforms for safety data transmission. In 2009 PAF expect to have Saab 2000 ready and gain the ability to use data links, JF-17 will also possesses advanced electronic warfare system, which is still in shrouds, New aircrafts will also have the missile attack Early Warning System (MAWS) sensors. With the new improvements in electronic warfare capability, PAF bekieves that the JF-17 once put into service will be second only to the F-16C BLOCK 52.

The above part here is quite interesting. AESA eh? And that EW suite, and the possibility of data linking with the Eeriye

 

[roadrunner]

unless China who has been working to develop one can come up with the AESA soon.

This will be good for the JF-17. I think they are near to developing AESA.

PAF bekieves that the JF-17 once put into service will be second only to the F-16C BLOCK 52.

More or less where I think too. But obviously I don't know what PAF know. The question on my mind is where would this place the J-10? At least Block-52, or 52+ surely?

To be a competitor of the OVT is quite good. That's the TVC one I think, of the fourth generation. At least those not so tuned individuals who thought the JF-17 to be second generation can have some humble pie.