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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

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SD10 has been fired from J8 and J10s if I am not mistaken. I gather work on weapons integration is on going in PAkistan, but there havent ben any pictures of it. I am not sure of this but there is news and perhaps a clip on You tube of Thunder firirng some missiles but not neceassarily the SD10. Ihope this helps.
Araz

Yes sir indeed it has been fired from the J-10(not sure about J-8) in China but i was asking precisely about Pakistan testing it on their platforms such as the JF-17 or the F-16.
 
Yes sir indeed it has been fired from the J-10(not sure about J-8) in China but i was asking precisely about Pakistan testing it on their platforms such as the JF-17 or the F-16.

i dont believe so as i have not heard anything. maybe ACM's interview with AFM may shed some light on PAF's BVR plans.
 
Is there any pics of JF-17 in PAF service available???
 
Is there any pics of JF-17 in PAF service available???

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ok webby will put new ones for you. There are tons of photos.
 
Views to share...
JF-17 Thunder: A Giant Leap
By Wg Cdr Abid Ali Khan / Sqn Ldr Ahsan Rafiqui

Pakistan's success in joint design and development of a fighter trainer, Karakoram-8 (K-8), was a stagger*ing achievement. This encouraged our policy makers to undertake a giant step that is, the design and development of a state-of-the-art aircraft. It was realized that an advanced fighter would be required by Pakistan Air Force in near future to narrow the rising gap of its advanced aircraft inventory as com*pared to India. It was also necessary to give the much needed boost to the nation's developing aviation indus*try. The Air Staff proposal of co‑designing, co-developing and co-manufacturing with the Chinese government the JF -17 Thunder was finalized in 1999. The aircraft was to be developed as planned replace*ment of aging fleets of A-5, F-7 and Mirage of Pakistan Air Force. In the development phase, five prototypes (PT) were planned to be manufac*tured for verification of the aircraft's performance through ground tests, flight tests and demonstrations.

JF-17 is jointly designed at Chengdu Aircraft Design & Research Institute (CADI) and the prototypes are being developed and manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC). In order to ensure effective transfer of technology and expertise, Pakistani experts remained associated with all aspects of design, development and manu*facturing in China. Most of the JF-17 aircraft planned to be inducted in PAF will roll out from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra. President of Pakistan laid the foundation stone for establishing the required infrastructure for this unique manufacturing facility at Kamra on May 5, 2005.The joint development of a new generation multi-role fighter aircraft called Super-7/FC-1 (Renamed later as Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) and code*named as "Thunder") formally started in 1999 to meet the objectives. Based on their mythology of dragons and fairies, the Chinese also call this fighting machine as "Xiao Long" (A small dragon). The first prototype flew its maiden flight in August, 2003, and the second fly worthy pro*totype took off from Chengdu in April, 2004. The joint flight test team has flown a number of verifica*tion sorties on the available prototypes and suggested various changes to enhance the aircraft's flight quali*ties, performance, structural integri*ty and the functionality of different systems. These recommendations have given a new look to the third flyable prototype. This new proto*type is planned to enter the skies in the first half of 2006.

JF-17's designers say that the strength of the Thunder lies in its advanced aerodynamics and state-of-the-art avionics. It is one of the only two current modern time fight*ers incorporated the latest research on intake design. In order to improve the aircraft's performance, study on diverterless supersonic intake has been in progress since 1999. Bump intake design on JF- 17 took almost two years with a number of intake models subjected to high and low speed wind tunnel tests. Analysis show that at high speeds, the bump works with forward-swept inlet cowls to give high performance, high total pressure recovery, low integrated distortion, and, good engine/intake matching. It redirects unwanted boundary layer airflow away from the inlets, essentially doing the job of heavier, more com*plex, and more costly approaches being used for because intake is one of the three major forward scatters of an aircraft (30%-35% contribution to aircraft forward Radar Cross Section (RCS)). In order to fully exploit the potential of the aircraft fly-by-wire system and improve the aircraft per*formance, JF-17 design has a wing fore body strike which is about 9% of the Wing area. This has resulted in better matching of the aerodynamic focus with the Center of Gravity (CG) and better harmonization of the air-to-air and air-to-ground CG vari*ations by taking advantage of the pitch digital fly-by-wire Flight Control Systems (FCS). This has improved not only the controllability but has also enhanced the performance through reduction of the supersonic drag. The salient features of "Thunder or Xia Long" enable it to outfit many competitors in the world. As a light weight, all weather, multi-role aircraft with maximum speed of Mach 1.6 (700 knots), high thrust*-to-weight ratio and hybrid flight con*trols, JF-17 gains comparative agili*ty and maneuverability in all regimes vis-a-vis fighters of the same class. Moreover, a state-of-the-art avionics package comprising modern concept of Man Machine Interface (MMI) with full Hands On Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) and glass cockpit make it comparable with even fourth generation fighters. This specific feature enhances its ability in all operational scenarios.

This multi-role, third generation air*craft is designed to be highly maneuverable with fly-by wire flight controls in pitch axis and stability augmentation system in the "Role and Yaw" axis. It will have the capa*bility to perform air defence, inter*diction, airfield strike, precision strike, and escort missions. It will allow long Combat Air Patrol (CAP) time at low level, thus affording large radius of action and thereby exceeding the PAF Air Staff require*ments in surface attack mode.

The aircraft is powered by reliable RD-93 engine, which like any other modern aircraft engine, is equipped with a Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC). Besides enhancing the engine performance, this makes engine handling carefree under all conditions and at all altitudes. Low Specific Fuel Consumption (LSFC) turbofan engine and low drag aero*dynamic design ensure its longer endurance and range. Because of its single point pressure refueling sys*tem, the aircraft has overall reduced turn around time. Modular mainte*nance design of the aircraft makes accessibility of the components quick and easy. All maintenance panels and components are installed at man's height for ease of mainte*nance. Computer-controlled fault diagnosis and analysis system not only reduce maintenance cost but also introduces the concept of "maintenance on fault only".

Long range radar and Active aircraft Beyond Visual Range (Active BVR) missile through effective integration with on board avionics provide pilot with a first shot capability. An elec*tro-optical self-protection suite with Missile Approach Warning system (MAWS) enhances its survivability under combat situations. Tactical datalink, with Track-While-Scan (TWS) and Dual Target Track (DTT) modes of the radar provide the pilot, an excellent Situation Awareness (SA) in all conditions. An integrated IFF interrogator along with colored displays provides easy cues for criti*cal decision-making.

JF-17's air combat capability is aug*mented by helmet-mounted display and all-aspect missiles affording high off-boresight launches. With its embedded data link and secure radios, the aircraft is expected to remain viable in future hostile bat*tles, and would prove to be an effec*tive low-cost high performance air defence fighter. It provides an affordable and efficient air-to-air mission capability. On the other hand, due to its advanced aerody*namic design, weapons carriage capability and avionics suite, it can strike the enemy, where it hurts him most in an offensive counter-air campaign. JF-17 thus would not only be lethal but will also be highly survivable

Long range radar with multi-track and multi-target capabilities make Thunder a good choice for strike escort role. It can target the CAP air*craft while pushing the enemy away from the strike package. Its fire and forget capability reduces time on tar*get and thus ensures better surviv*ability. With the integration of AEW&C, JF-17 will have excellent SA even in enemy area to make crit*ical engagement and exit decisions. Furthermore, under hostile conditions, automated self-protection sys*tem of the aircraft affords high sur*vivability rate.

Large Radius Of Action (ROA) of Thunder and its weapon system capability make it an excellent light surface attack aircraft. Ring Laser Gyro (RLG) based Inertial Navigation System (INS) with embedded Global Positioning System (GPS) provides the capability of precision navigation over the entire ROA. It can carry multitude of external stores including conven*tional general purpose bombs, clus*ter bomb units, anti-runway bombs, anti-ship missiles and precision guided weapons that exist today. JF-*17 provides employment flexibility to suit the tactical conditions. JF-17's payload options make it airfield, pre*cision or maritime strike capable. It can be employed even for interdic*tion, armed reconnaissance, battle*field interdiction and close support roles.

It is designed to ensure effective MMI in all types of missions. Its efficient HOTAS controls and col*ored Smart Multi-Function Displays (SMFDs) provide ease of comprehension and control. The aircraft has a wide 24 degree Field Of View (FOV), Smart Head-Up-Display (SHOD) and Helmet-Mounted Display (HMD) provide the requisite menu based controls and displays to the pilot. The symbologies are designed to ensure high SA of the pilot both in air-to-air and surface attack missions. Its Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) interrogator for both air-to-air and air-to-surface applications is available to avoid fratricide in hostile conditions. This advanced MMI concept affords com*puter-controlled capability diagnosis and failure monitoring system to reduce the pilot's work-load. Therefore, the performance index of JF-17 is much higher than that of a second or third generation aircraft, both in air-to-air and air-to-surface scenarios. It would therefore not only meet the objectives for which it is being developed but would also truly prove to be a "Giant Leap" for our progressing aviation industry, thus paving the way for future growth in related fields.

Published in 2005/2006 60th Anniversary Special Hilal Magazine Issue.
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Few more recent comments about French RC400..
Pakistan has been working hard to find a suitable, non-Chinese radar and missile package for its newly completed JF-17 Thunder fighter jet, co-produced with China. In August of last year, my sources had reported that the French were proving to be troublesome in negotiations and that South Africa was emerging as a likely supplier for a package. Last week however, the French government finally authorized its defense industry to sell the Thales RC-400 radar and MBDA’s Mica Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (MRAAM) to Pakistan

The French change of heart can likely be attributed to the new Sarkozy government in Paris and a recent Pakistani decision to purchase German submarines over French ones. Whatever the reason, this authorization could result in a significant boost for both the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and France’s market position in Pakistan.

A Lethal Combination
By allowing Thales and MDBA to compete in Pakistan’s open tender for a radar/missile package for the JF-17, the French have significantly raised the bar for the plane as well as for competitor bids.

The RC-400 is an airborne radar that can detect, track, and fire upon multiple targets at long ranges simultaneously. It employs the use of electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM - essentially, anti-jamming) and other advanced features such as SAR. The radar is more capable than the standard Chinese-made avionics that will be equipping the first production batch of JF-17’s.

The Mica is a medium range missile that has a range of approximately 60 km (~ 40 miles) meaning it’s capable of engaging targets beyond visual range (BVR). It includes advanced features such as thrust vectoring (TVC) allowing it to make drastic changes in direction at immense speeds.

To some of you, this may just be a long list of acronyms and technical jargon. In sum, it essentially translates into the Thunder becoming a true multi-role fighter with the capability to target land, air and sea targets in all conditions, day or night, at stand-off ranges.

It also forces other major suppliers who are or are considering participation in the open tender - such as Raytheon (US), Denel (South Africa), and FIAR (Italy) - to provide comparable packages at competitive prices. This will help Pakistan as it engages in commercial negotiations over the cost of a French package.

France’s Foothold
France and Pakistan have historically had very strong military ties. France has often supplied Pakistan with advanced weaponry when others wouldn’t. Today, Pakistan operates the largest fleet of French-made Mirage fighter aircraft outside of France, and to date, all of Pakistan’s submarines have been of French origin.

Recently however, defense ties between the two have been strained. Starting in 1998, with Pakistan’s nuclear tests, the French briefly withheld delivery of the first of three advanced Agosta 90B submarines Pakistan had purchased under transfer of technology (ToT) terms. Shortly thereafter, 11 French engineers working on the remaining Agosta’s were killed in a bombing of the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi, putting the program’s future in doubt for a short while.

After 9/11, Pakistan once again began relying heavily on US supplied weaponry while the French attempted to woo the Indians in the hopes of scoring large deals. In the process, the French alienated Pakistan and lost the loyalty of a longtime buyer. This was exhibited this past September when Pakistan opted to purchase German-made U-214 submarines over the French Marlin, despite France having authorized its sale.

By granting Pakistan access to an advanced radar and MRAAM, France is trying to regain lost footing in the Pakistani market. Ever the astute business people, the French are also undoubtedly eyeing the JF-17’s export potential, though many of the plane’s export targets will likely opt for an all-Chinese package.

Caveat Emptor
The French have a propensity to sell weaponry to Pakistan and then sell similar or better weapons to India (or vice versa), fuelling the existing arms races and their revenues. The most recent example of which was when after having agreed to supply Pakistan with the Agosta 90B submarine, they sold the newer Scorpene submarine to India. The very same could happen with the RC-400 radar and Mica MRAAM if a deal comes to fruition.

However, this sort of risk is inherent in any defense deal when there are two rivals engaged in an arms race. It doesn’t change the fact that even at a premium this package is far and away Pakistan’s best available option for the JF-17.

The Big Picture
The JF-17 is meant to be Pakistan’s unsanctionable, low-cost mainstay fighter, replacing aging Mirages and F-7’s (Chinese MiG-21’s) that constitute the bulk of the PAF fleet. With production expected to total 250, the JF-17 will form the medium component of the PAF’s mix of medium and high technology aircraft; the high component formed by the F-16 and the Chinese J-10 (Pakistani designation: FC-20).

The JF-17 will mark a quantum leap for the PAF in light of the aircraft it will be replacing. With the exception of a handful of upgraded Mirages, none of the planes in Pakistan’s current fleet have BVR capability; not even US-supplied F-16’s which are awaiting upgrade. The lack of BVR capability places Pakistan at a severe disadvantage vis-à-vis India whose air force operates multiple aircraft types that are BVR capable.

This will all change with the JF-17 which will have BVR capability and many other features currently unavailable on Pakistan’s Mirages and F-7’s. Not including its flight range and payload, the JF-17 is considered to be on par with if not superior in some aspects (e.g. avionics, thrust-to-weight ratio, etc.) to earlier versions of the F-16. In essence, the PAF will be replacing the bulk of its entire fleet with F-16-like planes, all equipped with BVR.

The JF-17’s induction, coupled with the purchase of brand new F-16’s and force multipliers such as Swedish and American Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) systems, marks a return to quality for the PAF, which in recent years had begun to rely on quantity having been crippled by sanctions. Though adopting all these new systems and developing new tactics will take time, it will give the PAF the confidence it needs to take on a much larger Indian Air Force (IAF).

For the global community, a confident and capable conventional military in Pakistan is vital - it raises Pakistan’s threshold for the use of nuclear weapons if ever a conflict were to break out between India and Pakistan.

Let’s hope we never have to test that threshold.
 
wats the current radar fitted on JF-17??

Is that BVR capable?
 
It is a question whether the Indian BVR options are more worth then PAF. They do not have anything like AMRAAM C5 and surely have no input in SD10... They do have Russian equipment and we know how well that performs in he hands of arabs and Indians... Not that good.
 
DAWN of today Sunday is reporting....

"pakistan and china are set to sign a contract for serial production of the 1st batch of 42 JF-17 thunder a/c after 10 months of deliberations and configuration of different components of the aircraft....and added that the production of the 42 a/c will be completed by the end of 2010 (so 29 a/c will be available in 2009 (8+21) and 21 a/c in 2010)(my comments)

it further adds...

the JF-17 is powered by the russian RD-93 powerplant but PAF was searching for a western powerplant for the new batch of a/c. the life-span of the russian engine is estimated to be 1/4th of that of any western sourced engine....the french were now willing to offer airborne radar RC-400, mission computer and other equipment for the JF-17. the PAF was currently evaluating the french offer....

pls note interview with ACM T.Mahmood on DAWN NEWS-TV at 1430 hrs on sunday afternoon (today)
 
JF-17 with Western engine will be awesome.
 
JF-17 with Western engine will be awesome.

well what options are there?

P&W = NIL
GE = NIL
RR = MAYBE
SNECMA = POSSIBLE
CZECK = MAYBE
CHINESE = LOOKS LIKE NO
 
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