JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]
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Muradk
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Electrical engineer ki zarorat hai?
Iwill get you the list of the openings in this project , they want pakistani men and women instead of hiring foreigners.
fatman17
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Russia, Ukraine spar over rights to MiG-29's RD-33 engine
Reuben F Johnson Correspondent - Kiev
A conflict over the licensing rights and certification for the Russian Aircraft Corporation (RSK) MiG MiG-29 and its major components is turning into more than just a competition over the upgrade and overhaul market for the Russian-made fighter aircraft.
This issue is now expanding to the market for defence products in China, which is Moscow's traditional and largest customer.
The head of Moscow's Chernyshev machine-building enterprise, Aleksandr Novikov, has used Russian media to accuse Ukrainian firms of carrying out unlicensed overhauls and upgrades.
Specifically, he referred to work performed on the MiG-29's Isotov/Klimov RD-33-2S model turbofan engines by a Ukrainian overhaul plant in Lutsk.
The Lutsk plant has combined with nine other Ukrainian defence enterprises to form a consortium called Aviaremont; a consortium official rejected the Russian claims and said Ukrainian facilities had a history of supporting the engines.
"The Lutsk enterprise engaged in the overhaul of the RD-33 even during the time of the former USSR. Therefore all technical questions, including the guarantee that the overhauls would be of the highest possible quality, have been resolved long ago," the official said.
"The situation is one," he continued, "where after the break up of the Soyuz [USSR] the design and development of aviation equipment is located in one country [Russia], where series production takes place, and the overhaul factories are located in another [Ukraine]."
The problem that exists, and the reason that the two countries cannot come to an agreement on full licensed authority, "is of a political nature and is not a technical one", the official said.
RSK MiG officials have countered that during the Soviet era Ukrainian plants were only certified to work on Sukhoi Su-27 Lyulka AL-31F-series engines and the only involvement with the RD-33 was the rebuild of small components.
However, a new and more significant issue is that Russian representatives claim that the Ukrainian plant is now trying to sell off the technical knowledge of the RD-33 design to Chinese industry.
In co-operation with Pakistan, China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation produces the FC-1/JF-17 fighter aircraft, which is powered by a single-engine variant of the RD-33, designated the RD-93. Chinese aerospace concerns would like to become self-reliant in production of the RD-93 and - with the help of Lutsk - be able to copy the RD-93 as they have already manufactured copies of the Su-27, as demonstrated by previous efforts in the field.
China's aerospace industry has a history of co-operation with Lutsk, with the People's Liberation Army Air Force and industrial specialists having spent several years at the Ukrainian facility learning how to service and overhaul the AL-31F engines for their large fleet of Su-27/30 aircraft.
Russia, Ukraine spar over rights to MiG-29's RD-33 engine
Reuben F Johnson Correspondent - Kiev
A conflict over the licensing rights and certification for the Russian Aircraft Corporation (RSK) MiG MiG-29 and its major components is turning into more than just a competition over the upgrade and overhaul market for the Russian-made fighter aircraft.
This issue is now expanding to the market for defence products in China, which is Moscow's traditional and largest customer.
The head of Moscow's Chernyshev machine-building enterprise, Aleksandr Novikov, has used Russian media to accuse Ukrainian firms of carrying out unlicensed overhauls and upgrades.
Specifically, he referred to work performed on the MiG-29's Isotov/Klimov RD-33-2S model turbofan engines by a Ukrainian overhaul plant in Lutsk.
The Lutsk plant has combined with nine other Ukrainian defence enterprises to form a consortium called Aviaremont; a consortium official rejected the Russian claims and said Ukrainian facilities had a history of supporting the engines.
"The Lutsk enterprise engaged in the overhaul of the RD-33 even during the time of the former USSR. Therefore all technical questions, including the guarantee that the overhauls would be of the highest possible quality, have been resolved long ago," the official said.
"The situation is one," he continued, "where after the break up of the Soyuz [USSR] the design and development of aviation equipment is located in one country [Russia], where series production takes place, and the overhaul factories are located in another [Ukraine]."
The problem that exists, and the reason that the two countries cannot come to an agreement on full licensed authority, "is of a political nature and is not a technical one", the official said.
RSK MiG officials have countered that during the Soviet era Ukrainian plants were only certified to work on Sukhoi Su-27 Lyulka AL-31F-series engines and the only involvement with the RD-33 was the rebuild of small components.
However, a new and more significant issue is that Russian representatives claim that the Ukrainian plant is now trying to sell off the technical knowledge of the RD-33 design to Chinese industry.
In co-operation with Pakistan, China's Chengdu Aerospace Corporation produces the FC-1/JF-17 fighter aircraft, which is powered by a single-engine variant of the RD-33, designated the RD-93. Chinese aerospace concerns would like to become self-reliant in production of the RD-93 and - with the help of Lutsk - be able to copy the RD-93 as they have already manufactured copies of the Su-27, as demonstrated by previous efforts in the field.
China's aerospace industry has a history of co-operation with Lutsk, with the People's Liberation Army Air Force and industrial specialists having spent several years at the Ukrainian facility learning how to service and overhaul the AL-31F engines for their large fleet of Su-27/30 aircraft.
IceCold
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China as already copied the engine in the form of WS-13. All they now need is to certify the engine to be used in a single engine jet. However in my opinion i would still prefer the Russian engine over the Chinese one. Perhaps a new version of the RD-93 with more thrust and no smoke.
araz
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there have been reports of Russia helping to set up the plant in China itself. I dont know what to make of this news considering 8 months ago there was news in various fora about Russian willingness to help China in mannufacturing WS13. In any case the engine is there,and is close to certification. If Chinese media is to be believed, its 10% more thrust and longer life than RD93(not to mention less smoke!!!). I think from PAfs perspective they would like to see a chinese engine in Thunder for obvious reasons. Considering that everything the Chinese have copied appears to be better than the Russian version, I would want it to be so as well. Ther has also been talk of usinf french engines in Thunder. Anything more come out of it. The third thing to consider is that PAF wanted 2 more hardpoints on the aircraft. Has that been accomplished ?
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This news mentions early stage of Pakistan south africa missile package deal for JF-17. Other sources confirms that A-Darter 5th generation SRAAM shares a lot of features from UK ASRAAM and the R-Darter is "direct development of later generations of the Israeli Python". other then A and R-darters.... Pakistan was also offered "ramjet" air-air-missile known as T-Darter though its still in development stage and its most likely to enter service in 2020.. it would be very interesting to know the current status of Pak-SA deal for T-Darter..
Date: 1999
Denel offers Pakistan missile deal
Denel of South Africa is offering Pakistan a package of air-to-air weaponry for its planned Chengdu Super 7 fighter being jointly developed with China. It includes a proposed joint development of a datalink-equipped radar-guided beyond visual range (BVR) missile.
The Pakistan air force confirms it is evaluating a range of active-guided BVR missiles, including the newly proposed T-Darter development by Denel's Kentron. The air force's Super 7 chief project director, Air Vice Marshal Hamid Khawaja, describes the South African missile as "very impressive on paper".
T-Darter is understood to be a further development of Kentron's radar-equipped R-Darter now in low-rate production and Ramjet-powered S-Darter or LRAAM. The new proposed air-breathing missile would incorporate a datalink for mid-course guidance updates and effective target engagements at ranges in excess of 50km (27nm).
The South African company acknowledges "Kentron has been discussing various proposals for air-to-air missiles with the Pakistan air force. These proposals include the U-Darter and derivatives of the Darter family, such as the fifth generation A-Darter missile, as well as the ramjet technology developed by Denel's Sochem division."
Pakistan is keen to acquire a BVR capability to counter the Indian air force's likely acquisition of the Vympel AA-12 (R-77) to arm its new Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters and upgraded MiG-29 and MiG-21bis. India also has its indigenous Astra programme.
"They (India) have the advantage," claims Pakistan's chief of air staff Air Chief Marshal Parvaiz Mehdi Qureshi, "-the Su-30s will definitely come with the AA-12 and they also plan to upgrade their other air defence aircraft. We're looking at various BVRs, be it the French (Matra-BAe) Mica, the Russian AA-12 and there are others like South Africa. "We would also like to develop something ourselves in collaboration with others," says Qureshi.
Date: 1999
Denel offers Pakistan missile deal
Denel of South Africa is offering Pakistan a package of air-to-air weaponry for its planned Chengdu Super 7 fighter being jointly developed with China. It includes a proposed joint development of a datalink-equipped radar-guided beyond visual range (BVR) missile.
The Pakistan air force confirms it is evaluating a range of active-guided BVR missiles, including the newly proposed T-Darter development by Denel's Kentron. The air force's Super 7 chief project director, Air Vice Marshal Hamid Khawaja, describes the South African missile as "very impressive on paper".
T-Darter is understood to be a further development of Kentron's radar-equipped R-Darter now in low-rate production and Ramjet-powered S-Darter or LRAAM. The new proposed air-breathing missile would incorporate a datalink for mid-course guidance updates and effective target engagements at ranges in excess of 50km (27nm).
The South African company acknowledges "Kentron has been discussing various proposals for air-to-air missiles with the Pakistan air force. These proposals include the U-Darter and derivatives of the Darter family, such as the fifth generation A-Darter missile, as well as the ramjet technology developed by Denel's Sochem division."
Pakistan is keen to acquire a BVR capability to counter the Indian air force's likely acquisition of the Vympel AA-12 (R-77) to arm its new Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters and upgraded MiG-29 and MiG-21bis. India also has its indigenous Astra programme.
"They (India) have the advantage," claims Pakistan's chief of air staff Air Chief Marshal Parvaiz Mehdi Qureshi, "-the Su-30s will definitely come with the AA-12 and they also plan to upgrade their other air defence aircraft. We're looking at various BVRs, be it the French (Matra-BAe) Mica, the Russian AA-12 and there are others like South Africa. "We would also like to develop something ourselves in collaboration with others," says Qureshi.
Pakistan interested in ASRAAM
No need for joint operation inside Pak territory: Senate body
Tuesday July 08, 2008 (1105 PST)
ISLAMABAD: The Senate Defence Committee said on Monday there was no need for a joint operation inside the Pakistani territory to counter terrorism.
In a meeting with the Defence Select Committee, House of Commons, UK, the Senate body made it clear that the Nato forces should confine themselves to intelligence sharing only and border incursions would not be tolerated.
The meeting was held at the Parliament House. James Arbuthnot led the UK committee while Senate body Chairman Nisar Memon led the Pakistani side. Memon said the Pakistani nation would not tolerate any joint operation in its territory and the Nato allies should confine themselves to providing information and intelligence sharing. We would proceed further, he added.
We need latest technology and weapon system to eliminate terrorism, Memon said and asked the UK to provide ìAsramî short-range missile, night-vision system and other latest technologies.
Highlighting the close ties between Pakistan and the UK, he said the two countries were working closely on different bilateral, regional and international issues. He added that regular meetings of the Pak-UK Defense Forum had been helpful in opening up new avenues in defence cooperation.
He reiterated the firm commitment of Pakistan to democracy and pointed out that a complete transition to a civil democratic culture had been in place after the elections. Memon said it was for the first time that the defence budget had been presented in the parliament for a detailed discussion.
He also reiterated the firm commitment of Pakistan to nuclear non-proliferation and said an effective command and control system was in place in the country and there was no threat to the nuclear assets.
He called upon Nato and its allies to devise an exit strategy from Afghanistan and said the Afghan people should be given the right to governance. He pointed out with concern that poppy cultivation in Afghanistan had increased during the past few years, the income of which was being utilised by terrorists to purchase sophisticated weapons.
Memon said steps had been taken to initiate a constructive dialogue with India to resolve various outstanding issues, including the Kashmir issue. James Arbuthnot termed Pakistan a close ally in the war on terror. We acknowledge the successes we made in this war with the help of Pakistan, he said.
We want close relations with Pakistan and ready to provide any kind of assistance to curb terrorism, he added. He strongly condemned the blast in Islamabad. Arbuthnot said Fata was a difficult area and the Pakistani forces knew better about the area.
We want an end to Talibanisation, he said and added that the Pakistani government was committed to eliminate terrorism. He said Nato and the ISAF had no intention to go from Afghanistan in the near future.
Senator Professor Khurshid Ahmed, Sadia Abbasi and Rukhsana Zuberi also spoke on the occasion and stressed the need for a comprehensive strategy for eliminating terrorism. They said the West and the UK should not link terrorism to Islam.Both the committees agreed that there should be a regular exchange of parliamentary visits to develop more understanding on issues of mutual significance.
Pakistan News Service - PakTribune
No need for joint operation inside Pak territory: Senate body
Tuesday July 08, 2008 (1105 PST)
ISLAMABAD: The Senate Defence Committee said on Monday there was no need for a joint operation inside the Pakistani territory to counter terrorism.
In a meeting with the Defence Select Committee, House of Commons, UK, the Senate body made it clear that the Nato forces should confine themselves to intelligence sharing only and border incursions would not be tolerated.
The meeting was held at the Parliament House. James Arbuthnot led the UK committee while Senate body Chairman Nisar Memon led the Pakistani side. Memon said the Pakistani nation would not tolerate any joint operation in its territory and the Nato allies should confine themselves to providing information and intelligence sharing. We would proceed further, he added.
We need latest technology and weapon system to eliminate terrorism, Memon said and asked the UK to provide ìAsramî short-range missile, night-vision system and other latest technologies.
Highlighting the close ties between Pakistan and the UK, he said the two countries were working closely on different bilateral, regional and international issues. He added that regular meetings of the Pak-UK Defense Forum had been helpful in opening up new avenues in defence cooperation.
He reiterated the firm commitment of Pakistan to democracy and pointed out that a complete transition to a civil democratic culture had been in place after the elections. Memon said it was for the first time that the defence budget had been presented in the parliament for a detailed discussion.
He also reiterated the firm commitment of Pakistan to nuclear non-proliferation and said an effective command and control system was in place in the country and there was no threat to the nuclear assets.
He called upon Nato and its allies to devise an exit strategy from Afghanistan and said the Afghan people should be given the right to governance. He pointed out with concern that poppy cultivation in Afghanistan had increased during the past few years, the income of which was being utilised by terrorists to purchase sophisticated weapons.
Memon said steps had been taken to initiate a constructive dialogue with India to resolve various outstanding issues, including the Kashmir issue. James Arbuthnot termed Pakistan a close ally in the war on terror. We acknowledge the successes we made in this war with the help of Pakistan, he said.
We want close relations with Pakistan and ready to provide any kind of assistance to curb terrorism, he added. He strongly condemned the blast in Islamabad. Arbuthnot said Fata was a difficult area and the Pakistani forces knew better about the area.
We want an end to Talibanisation, he said and added that the Pakistani government was committed to eliminate terrorism. He said Nato and the ISAF had no intention to go from Afghanistan in the near future.
Senator Professor Khurshid Ahmed, Sadia Abbasi and Rukhsana Zuberi also spoke on the occasion and stressed the need for a comprehensive strategy for eliminating terrorism. They said the West and the UK should not link terrorism to Islam.Both the committees agreed that there should be a regular exchange of parliamentary visits to develop more understanding on issues of mutual significance.
Pakistan News Service - PakTribune
Myth_buster_1
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Just how is air to air missiles gonna help pakistan fight terrorism??
and why would PAF want ASRAAM when they are already getting R-darter?
and why would PAF want ASRAAM when they are already getting R-darter?
Just how is air to air missiles gonna help pakistan fight terrorism??
and why would PAF want ASRAAM when they are already getting R-darter?
I think that is just how the report was worded. I am sure Mr. Memon is not that big of a goof to talk about a AAM requirement for the PAF in the context of terrorism. Pakistan and UK have a Defence consultative and procurement engagement where Pakistani requirements for all type of equipment available from the UK is discussed. In the past the Brits have purchased pretty considerable quantities of ammunition from Pakistan and the other way around we have imported a lot of British hardware.
As far as R-Darter etc is concerned...its all up in the air. There is nothing conclusive about it as of yet. PAF has shown interest in MBDA MICA as well but in the end the decision to go with one or the other would be made based on which offer makes the most sense. Also R-Darter is a BVR AAM whereas ASRAAM and MICA (MICA is both WVR and BVR capable) are primarily Short Range AAMs. PAF has a requirement for 5th gen WVR AAMs and of those that may be available to the PAF include MICA, ASRAAM, AIM-9X and potentially IRIS-T. I am sure PAF wants to solicit offers and political clearances from all of the countries before they make a decision.
Webby,
I do not know all of the specifics, but looking back at the development of the MICA, it was designed as an AAM along with AMRAAM. Thus the missile is actually a MRAAM and also has the capability to engage targets in the WVR arena. This is something that most other dedicated BVR or WVR AAMs cannot do.
Overall a very capable AAM for both medium BVR and Short Range Air to Air engagements.
Interestingly enough due to various mergers etc, now both the MICA as well as ASRAAM are being marketed by MBDA.
The ASRAAM is a dedicated SRAAM. Which one is better? I do not know. I would think that ASRAAM probably has more recent ECM/ECCM capability but then the MICA RF is also a very good solution. I think overall both are about the same as AdlA is using the MICA as its primary 5th Gen WVR AAM solution whereas the RAF is using ASRAAM and the USAF AIM-9x.
Overall I think PAF can't go wrong with either of the two (I.E. MICA or ASRAAM).
BTW, here is an interesting titbit about a MICA being launched by a Rafale using the target coordinates provided to it by another Rafale via Link 16 in a close-in High Off Bore-sight engagement:
shehbazi2001
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Thats really a good development that PAF is considering new WVR missiles. Here it would be worthwhile to discuss various AAMs and their performance, characteristics etc irrespective of the political problems in their acquisition.
I would stress the countermeasures, wide engagement envelope and guidance algorithms as the most important aspects. Now almost every fighter is equipped with flares and other countermeasures. Dual-band IR seeker can offer an advantage. Another advantage is the Imaging Infra Red seeker as compared to earlier non-imaging ones. Are dual-band+Imaging IR features being used combined??
What is the advantage of a missile that can pull 50g and other that can pull 30g. Some use TVC and others dont. Some can be launched at high off-boresight angles than others. Some can be easily integrated with Helmet-mounted sights as compared to others. Range is still another question.....so its a complete study..
Even a new thread can be opened to discuss the characteristics of heat-seeking air to air missiles. It would be an occasion to learn too.
I would stress the countermeasures, wide engagement envelope and guidance algorithms as the most important aspects. Now almost every fighter is equipped with flares and other countermeasures. Dual-band IR seeker can offer an advantage. Another advantage is the Imaging Infra Red seeker as compared to earlier non-imaging ones. Are dual-band+Imaging IR features being used combined??
What is the advantage of a missile that can pull 50g and other that can pull 30g. Some use TVC and others dont. Some can be launched at high off-boresight angles than others. Some can be easily integrated with Helmet-mounted sights as compared to others. Range is still another question.....so its a complete study..
Even a new thread can be opened to discuss the characteristics of heat-seeking air to air missiles. It would be an occasion to learn too.
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