JF-17 Thunder as a replacement for Moroccan F-5 & F-1 fleet?

[Kompromat]

Hi everyone,

I joined this Pakistani Forum just to answer this thread, I was searching on Google for differences between the Moroccan F-5 Tiger and the Chinese/Pakistani JF-17, and I found the thread, so I was having fun going through the subject and the whole conversations.. First of all, I would love to notice, that as a Moroccan and Muslim, I'm so proud of the Pakistani Army, who truly works hard in order to have a word in the world community, which I wish nothing but the best for you..

Returning to the subject, the RMAF got the offer from the Chinese Chendgu and also proposed an industrial cooperation to the RMAF, which is a great offer. As you all know, the RMAF has 24 F-16 Block 50/52++, Alpha Jets for training, and Mirage F1 and F-5 Tiger. The French Mirage F1 were upgraded to MF2000 lately, which mean, there's no need to replace them for the moment, so what the RMAF is focusing on, is what would replace the F-5 Tiger, and there's too many options as you know.

Believe it or not, me, as the most of the Moroccans who're interested in the RMAF news, we're too open for the Chinese offer, because that would give us a push, to have more industrial cooperation in the future, making our own fight jets, but the RMAF chiefs, as I guess, are more interested in an aircraft with two engines, because Algeria has the Su-35 and Spain has the F-18 and Eurofighter Typhoon as well, so we need something that would face these at once..
So from my point of view, I think that the JF-17 offer comes in the 2nd place, and nobody knows what the RMAF is aiming on, as the 1st place.I Thank you all, one by one, for being interested in the thread, and I will try to continue the conversation with you..

Greetings from Morocco

Welcome aboard brother. Please accept our most cordial eid greetings and gratitude for your support for Pakistan. On this forum, you will find everything you are looking for. If RMAF decides to cooperate with Pakistan/China for JF-17 program, we would hold nothing back from Moroccan brothers.

Since you mentioned the replacement of the F-5 Tigers, i'd like to post a chart explaining the differences between the JF-17 Thunder Block 1 and the F-20 Tigershark, which was the best F-5 development package ever built but didn't see production. I hope this would put things into perspective. Shukran. Fi Aman Allah

 

[Babur Han]

Ahlan feek Akhi L'Ghali, I appreciate your reply and it's a honor for me to stay with you and to be an active member..

When comes to the JF-17, believe me, I was so happy, not only me, but all the members of our group in the FB, when we saw the offer of Chendgu in Marrakesh Airshow 2014, above all of it, the industrial cooperation with the RMAF, because that will open us the gates for more projects in the future, especially with Pakistan, because we bought from you Khalid's tanks the same as Saudi Arabia did..
Returning to our subject, your guess is absolutely right, in order for the RMAF to have a word in our geography, we need to face the Algerian and Spanish Air Forces, JF-17 is a great offer as I mentioned before, but the issue is, the JF-17 is a long term investment, so the time is running against the RMAF, Spain, from a side, has the full support from the EU and from the NATO, and Algeria has their resources (Oil and Gas), so the best option for the moment, is buying a reasonable number of Rafale from France, and all depends on the French offer, because they don't want to give us power, because Spain will put her weights on France, and F-18 won't be a good choice, as you said, has a high RCS, I think the F15 still a better choice, but the financial situation might be not helpful..

I only wish that the RMAF chiefs makes the best decision for our nation..

If I may ask, it will be possible for you, to give me the Radar Range of JF-17 versus the aircraft we mentioned ?

I'm so happy to be between you, and I only hope I can be helpful for you

"In Yansorokom Allah Fala Ghaleba Lakum"

Welcome to this Forum Brother !

In my Opinion Morocco can counter the Treath from spanish F-18 and EF-2000 not only alone in buying new Fighters ! Is it the Case that France will deliever Rafale to RMAF, would they also deliever Stand - Off Weapons like Scalp EG/Storm Shadow to hit Airbases, Comand & Control Infrastructure in Spain and without Satelitte Intelligence Cruise Missiles are useless !

It is also important to buy a long Range - high Altitude Air Defence System to Counter the spanish Superiority, like S-300, HQ-9 or SAMP-T !

BTW: Eid Mubarak !

 

[Luftwaffe]

Welcome to this Forum Brother !

In my Opinion Morocco can counter the Treath from spanish F-18 and EF-2000 not only alone in buying new Fighters ! Is it the Case that France will deliever Rafale to RMAF, would they also deliever Stand - Off Weapons like Scalp EG/Storm Shadow to hit Airbases, Comand & Control Infrastructure in Spain and without Satelitte Intelligence Cruise Missiles are useless !

It is also important to buy a long Range - high Altitude Air Defence System to Counter the spanish Superiority, like S-300, HQ-9 or SAMP-T !

BTW: Eid Mubarak !

Hi, why would french let french weapons be used against NATO member Spain?.

Let think out of the box get something that is sanction proof the only offer i see that can counter at reasonable price is China with Radars/SAMs/Naval Ships/Land Attack Cruise Missiles/Air Launch Cruise Missiles/Anti-Radiation Missiles almost every product is available for Exports but i would guess it is their hierarchy and political lot that is more influence by west.

 

[Babur Han]

Hi, why would french let french weapons be used against NATO member Spain?.

Let think out of the box get something that is sanction proof the only offer i see that can country at reasonable price is China with Radars/SAMs/Naval Ships/Land Attack Cruise Missiles/Air Launch Cruise Missiles/Anti-Radiation Missiles almost every product is available for Exports but i would guess it is their hierarchy and political lot that is more influence by west.

I think in the same way and I highly doubt that even when the french deliever Rafale to Morocco, that they will give them advanced Weapons which seriously impact the strategic Balance between Morocco and Spain !

 

[Luftwaffe]

Are you serious? Man this is NOT a troll thread.

Nishan syndrome, lol.

 

[Andalusi Knight]

You are welcome I love al Andalus and her great history

Thank you so much brother Salman, and Inshallah we will return to our glorious history, it's a matter of time

discussions thread
JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]
Arguments of choosing JF-17 Thunder over JAS-39 Gripen

informative threads
Specifications of JF-17 blk1 based on Dubai Airshow 2011
JF-17 Thunder's Armament
JF-17's various initial design phases
JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool

welcome to the forum,
Andalusi Knight

Thank you Moderator, I appreciate !!

 

[Andalusi Knight]

In my opinion, before the JF-17 platform sees success in the export market there are a few KEY features which it needs (some of these are well on their way):

1. Air to Air refueling probe IN ADDITION to a larger internal fuel tank
2. Minimum of 9 hardpoints
3. Dual seat variant.
4. AESA radar implementation (I imagine that European alternatives are preferred by clients)

I truly believe that Pakistan introduced the JF-17 to the world approximately 4-5 years too early. These 4 key features, in my opinion, are an absolute must in today's fighter export market. Once the JF-17 boasts these capabilities, I guarantee you that the first contract will be signed shortly there after.

I agree with you when comes to the AESA Radar, because if you would go to the European are more preferred by clients as you say, and when comes to the rest, can be upgraded with no big deal, especially the hardpoints and Air to Air refueling, remember, the RMAF took care of adding Air to Air to their aircraft by themselves, so that wouldn't be a big deal as well, and when comes to the Dual seat variant, I do believe the JF-17 Block 2 will have a Dual seats, if not, than they should seriously think about it..

Believe it or not, the JF-17 is on the right path, Saudi Arabia is studying the project, and Morocco as well, if I'm not wrong Turkey wanted the JF-17 but I have no clue where that ended..

AS most of us see, JF-17 will have a good future in the market, and of course there will be various Blocks following the trend of the market..

 

[Babur Han]

Believe it or not, the JF-17 is on the right path, Saudi Arabia is studying the project, and Morocco as well, if I'm not wrong Turkey wanted the JF-17 but I have no clue where that ended..

By a visit in China President Gül show interest for JF-17, but there was no interest from Military Officials ! Now, Turkey is focusing on it's own TF-X Project

 

[Andalusi Knight]

Welcome aboard brother. Please accept our most cordial eid greetings and gratitude for your support for Pakistan. On this forum, you will find everything you are looking for. If RMAF decides to cooperate with Pakistan/China for JF-17 program, we would hold nothing back from Moroccan brothers.

Since you mentioned the replacement of the F-5 Tigers, i'd like to post a chart explaining the differences between the JF-17 Thunder Block 1 and the F-20 Tigershark, which was the best F-5 development package ever built but didn't see production. I hope this would put things into perspective. Shukran. Fi Aman Allah

View attachment 41358 View attachment 41359 View attachment 41360 View attachment 41361

Thank you so much akhi Aeronaut for your welcoming, and Eidkum Mubarak as well, with all the good wishes and all success to your Great Nation, and believe me, I'm the most happy for joining this Forum, until now, I learned a lots about you, I've been surfing and going through your Navy and Land Army, and to be honest with you, it's a major loss for the Moroccan Army not to cooperate with you, except Khalid Tanks and the JF-17 in the near future, I assume there's no additional deals were made between Morocco and Pakistan, and we don't doubt at all, if you asks us for our soul we won't think twice about it..

I read once about the F-20 Tigershark, and I was looking for more information about it on Wikipedia, and I wasn't amazed knowing this aircraft never saw light, because I've never heard of it before being used by a country Air Forces..

I can see that the JF-17 would be the best replacement for the granny, especially after attaching the chart, that shows the difference between the best upgrade of F-5 who wasn't produced, and between the JF-17 Block 1, I only hope the RMAF will make a good decision when comes to the best replacement for the F-5, and JF-17 isn't only better, but the best offer we have on table, comparing to the pricing, and to the industrial cooperation that would open us gates, and turn with profits on our Nations both

I truly appreciate your reply, and I only wish if the Geography was fair to us having you next by, because as you can see, Algeria who's beside us can't be trusted, and I wish you nothing but the success and glory..

Dumta fi R'eayati Allah akhi L'ghali

 

[Chak Bamu]

I think in the same way and I highly doubt that even when the french deliever Rafale to Morocco, that they will give them advanced Weapons which seriously impact the strategic Balance between Morocco and Spain !

A word of caution: Remember help provided to UK by France in Argentina-UK conflict in 1982. France provided key information about its Exocet missiles to UK to neutralize Argentina's advantage. Argentina was operating Mirage III & Exocet combo to good effect.

France will never go against its allies to help another.

Rafale can be good to intimidate Algiers, but not Spain.

 

[Andalusi Knight]

Welcome to this Forum Brother !

In my Opinion Morocco can counter the Treath from spanish F-18 and EF-2000 not only alone in buying new Fighters ! Is it the Case that France will deliever Rafale to RMAF, would they also deliever Stand - Off Weapons like Scalp EG/Storm Shadow to hit Airbases, Comand & Control Infrastructure in Spain and without Satelitte Intelligence Cruise Missiles are useless !

It is also important to buy a long Range - high Altitude Air Defence System to Counter the spanish Superiority, like S-300, HQ-9 or SAMP-T !

BTW: Eid Mubarak !

Ahleen fik Akhi, I appreciate your welcoming..

I totally agree with you, in order to strike the Spanish and Algerian threat, it's necessary to have a LR/HA Air Defense System, because what I believe is the French would never give a full option Rafale to Morocco, with it full arming record..

So when comes back to the Air Defense System to counter the Spanish/Algerian superiority, the S-300 is for sure out of the list, because Algeria own it already, and a year ago General Bennani was in China for the second round, to see what about HQ-9, and I since that time, there's no news anymore, the Moroccan Army is so strange when comes to this, full of secrets, so nobody knows if HQ-9 already exists in Morocco or not, and when comes to the Aster-30 SAMP-T, it's used by the Moroccan Royal Navy, if I'm not wrong in a Frigate that was bought from France, but I don't know which one exactly..

So comparing these three, the S-300 is the best of the three, the second is HQ-9 and the 3rd is the Aster-30 SAMP-T, so I assume is there's no S-400, the HQ-9 is a better choice, and I most notice, that the King Mohammed VI will visit Russia soon, and you never know what the meeting will bring us..

Eidek Mubarak Akhi, I appreciate so much my Brother, wishing to you all the best !!

 

[Babur Han]

A word of caution: Remember help provided to UK by France in Argentina-UK conflict in 1982. France provided key information about its Exocet missiles to UK to neutralize Argentina's advantage. Argentina was operating Mirage III & Exocet combo to good effect.

France will never go against its allies to help another.

Rafale can be good to intimidate Algiers, but not Spain.

The french will only make their Money and Plays out the Muslim States against each other ! France as well Spain have a strong interest on a disunited Maghreb !

 

[Andalusi Knight]

Hi, why would french let french weapons be used against NATO member Spain?.

Let think out of the box get something that is sanction proof the only offer i see that can country at reasonable price is China with Radars/SAMs/Naval Ships/Land Attack Cruise Missiles/Air Launch Cruise Missiles/Anti-Radiation Missiles almost every product is available for Exports but i would guess it is their hierarchy and political lot that is more influence by west.

I totally agree with you, France wouldn't let such thing happen, especially with the Moroccan/Spanish conflicts, but you never know the pressure Morocco can put on France, Saudi Arabia from a side, and USA from another side, we're in a strong position, so the decision will be token by RMAF not France, and I would love to notice, the Moroccan Mirage F-1 was upgraded by France itself, and became the MF2000, so we're talking about the Mirage 2000..

A word of caution: Remember help provided to UK by France in Argentina-UK conflict in 1982. France provided key information about its Exocet missiles to UK to neutralize Argentina's advantage. Argentina was operating Mirage III & Exocet combo to good effect.

France will never go against its allies to help another.

Rafale can be good to intimidate Algiers, but not Spain.

I totally agree with you, I mentioned before that Spain has the full support from NATO and Europe as well, especially Italy, Germany and France, so the Rafale wouldn't strike the Spanish Air Force, but we most not forget, Allah is by us, doesn't matter what does Spain have on hand, the Moroccans are fighting for their right, and the right always wins, that's Allah promise !!

If the Rafale would be delivered to Morocco with it full strategic missiles, that would be a great deal, if not, than we should look for something else, because the Rafale can stand in the Algerian Su-35, not the Spanish F-18 SH and Eurofighter Typhoon and the NATO unconditional support

 

[Andalusi Knight]

The french will only make their Money and Plays out the Muslim States against each other ! France as well Spain have a strong interest on a disunited Maghreb !

Exactly, believe it or not, Morocco doesn't consider France as a truthful partner, as you all know, the French/Moroccan friendship went through a lots of stress lately, because of the Sahara problem, and we will never forget what France did in the Region, especially the occupation of Morocco, so it's a matter of time..

We have no choice for the moment, we must seek for the French weapon, and France can't do wrong with Morocco as well, because Morocco won't stand and watch, we can kick the French banks and companies out of our country with no losses from out side as their losses, and nothing to loose really, because we have nothing with France precisely, we have businesses with the European nation, not with France alone, and they all need the cooperation of Morocco, especially the Economical cooperation, remember, the Geography counts, and the Maghreb will never be united, for as long as Polisario Front is supported by Algeria, and the Algerians are ruled by corrupted army and system :/

 

[Chak Bamu]

A bit Off Topic, but @Andalusi Knight , may I ask you to introduce PDF to a few more Moroccan brothers? We feel we do not have enough people from Maghreb.