JF 17 is The Wrong Omnirole Aircraft For PAKISTAN

[Zhukov]

JF17 is 4th Generation fighter and by 2021 All older Mirages and F7s will be replaced by a potent 4th gen multirole fighter. Its the best economical option for this role.
Look at india they still have no clue how to replace the light multirole fighter category for there junky mig21s. Just speculations. So Replacing Mirages and F7ps is a success. JF17 full marks there

Now For a heavy weighter category to replace F16s thats still something to worry about. Untill that J31 or TFX Get Ready Get 50 Odd numbers of that Damn Su30SME or J15 will you PAF

 

[araz]

And for some reason they have established a Design and Develoment Agency for future planes.

True. But my thought is still that till they complete the development of JFT they wont take on a second project unless piggy backing on the Chinese or other development. This maybe in the 2023-25 time period but not before.
A

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

True. But my thought is still that till they complete tbe development of JFT they wont take on a second project unless piggy backing on the Chinese or other development. This maybe in the 2023-25 time period but not before.
A

Development of JF block 3 would be complete by 2019?

 

[araz]

Development of JF block 3 would be complete by 2019?

I think there will be at least one further iteration of the project. You have life in the F16 project even after 40 years why not the JFT. There simply is too much invested in it for PAC to give up just yet. So my money goes on another 1-2 blocks with progressive changes. This will be ome possible if it becomes a marketing success which it should.
A

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I think there will be at least one further iteration of the project. You have life in the F16 project even after 40 years why not the JFT. There simply is too much invested in it for PAC to give up just yet. So my money goes on another 1-2 blocks with progressive changes. This will be ome possible if it becomes a marketing success which it should.
A

Surely as technology progresses so will JF, upgrades etc. But that can go side beside with a new project, if they chose to start or become a part of one.

 

[Arsalan 345]

No Sir, its not.... Jf-17 is a right aircraft for the right roles .... not for every role

Now the question is what those ROLES are ....??

1- JF-17 is the replacement for Mirag-III/IV & J-7 derivatives not for F-16 or any other Medium category fighter .... so compare the specification of JF-17 with these jets and the roles which these jets perform in PAF with their limited technology (third & second generation technology) JF-17 is a clear winner and it is very logical to assume that JF-17 will perform these roles better than preceding jets.

2- Problem arise when we wish JF-17 to take up the role of F-16 or any other medium category Fighter Jet which it is not .... this jet can be employed for NAVAL role as 'coastal defence fighter' and can patrol 300-400 KM into EEZ which is mostly 200 nm (~360 KM from ours shores), extended 150 nm are limited to SINDH & very limited area of BALUCHISTAN, but it does not mean its a specialized Naval Aircraft or for any other specific role

3- Its a kind of an aircraft which Air forces keeps in their inventory in numbers to perform general duties & to supports their specialized inventory which are tasked to perform specific duties .... in cricketing term its an all-rounder who comes to bat at number 7 or 8, balls the allotted quota of his overs in the middle of innings as number 5 baller or even some time as an extra baller to give a bit of depth to the balling line, in fielding he takes some catches and stops some runs .... you can not expect from these kind of player to score century or take 5 wickets its a duty of Specialist Batsmen or Baller .... so is the case with JF-17 you can not expect it to take a role of specialized Naval aircraft or anti-ship aircraft .... or specialized for Air Interdiction for these sort of roles different beasts are required

4- Our current problem is that we do not have specialized Aircrafts for specific roles, therefore we want JF-17 to take that role as well for which its not design its true that its a Multi role aircraft but its design have its own limitations, this indicates our CURRENT NEED which we expect to fulfil with JF-17 & used F-16 (which may be difficult to procure in future) combination and are waiting for next generation solution which may available in FUTURE, so we are delaying or sort of overlooking our current need in favour of an OPTION which will be available in FUTURE.

5- PAF may have adopted this strategy because it might have the assurances that the expected future option is not available really at Distant Future & we may see the availability of that option earlier than our estimated time otherwise PAF cannot over look CURRENT NEED in favour of FUTURE OPTIONS for so long .... my 2 cents ....

Completely agree with you.

 

[araz]

Surely as technology progresses so will JF, upgrades etc. But that can go side beside with a new project, if they chose to start or become a part of one.

I dont think there will be 2 projects for a fighter plane running side by side.
A

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I dont think there will be 2 projects for a fighter plane running side by side.
A

Future upgrades arent projects. Unless PAC comes up with something like a twin engined JF... Or some other massive change.

Weapon platforms get upgrades all the gime... even after decades..

 

[Zhukov]

FEW FACTS.

Pakistan has inducted 80 Thunders in tens years between 2009-2017 = 10 planes per year

PAF today has 250 F7/MIRAGES to replace ... in my maths you will not induct 60 JF17 a year.

Utter rubbish. So PAF will still have 200 obsolete F7/MIRAGES in 2020

NOW INDIA

There only 125 mig21 in india inn a force of 600 planes

They are being replaced by these
View attachment 401496

I cant make this any more IN YOUR FACE guaranteed that 123 Tejas are being built in 3 assembly plants between 2017 & 2027

Boy i am damn sick of replying to Indian trolls posting without any research titling there posts FACTS and beocming a source for more immature indian trools to refer to
Ok here is one more.
First production capacity of JF17 thunder is currents 16 per year. First locally manufactured JF17s were acquired in 2009 when just 4 jests were made.
Next year the number rose to Around 10 in 2010. and It rose to 16 jets per year in 2016 gradually. As of 2016 PAF had 86 JF17s(total 88 out of which 2 were lost to crashes) and production of 100 JF17s will be complete in 2017.
Annual Production is planned to increase to 25 jets per year.

Pakistan have around 70 to 80 of Each mirage 3 and 5 around 150 to 160 of those mirages. and 195 F7s
Mirage 5 is attack variant which will be replaced by JF17s completely
Mirage 3 is a Multirole aircraft which will also be replaced by JF17
150 JF17s will replace Mirages

While F7 is an interceptor. Having older F7s and F7p variants.
Older 120 F7s will be replaced with JF17s while
60 to 70 F7PGs are relitively newer variants acquired post 2001 with newer airframes they will be operational and will be replaced in due times.

that makes JF17 procurement numer to 230 by 2022 2023 which coincides with 25 jets per year production capacity of PAC Kamra from 2017 and 2018 onwards.
Unlike India PAF dont brag and disclose every little bit instead you have to combine a lots of pieces to get the complete picture of PAF Plans.
As PAC Kamra is recruiting massive number of new Engineers and Technicians for JF17 Production facility(Even mentioned in there Advertisement) every Paksitani Knows. which indicates production capacity is increasing from this year as claimed by PAF to 25 per year from 16 previously.

Read it again and dont write bull crap again about JF17 Program and replacement plans of PAF Please.

Now coming to Indian Airforce have 245 migs majority of whom are due to be retired from 2018 and still no order of Tejas is placed let alone production. All indian media is touting IAF will replace Mig21s with MK1 Tejas.And Its developement isnt even complete yet.
Plus the 240 Odd 3rd Generation Jaguar and Mig27 are also sitting in your hangers with no foreseeable replacement. in that numbers. only 36 Rafaels are ordered with no FGFA in sight.

Now go take a shower and Chant Jay Hind.


On Ground Reality Only thing Paksitan have to work on is Replacement of F16s. Rest is great.

 

[araz]

Future upgrades arent projects. Unless PAC comes up with something like a twin engined JF... Or some other massive change.

Weapon platforms get upgrades all the gime... even after decades..

The project I am referring to is for a separate fighter with design in house and major PAC input. Upgradee are a part and parcel of the programme and will keep on happenning. I hope this clears the issue
A

 

[Centurion2016]

Now coming to Indian Airforce have 245 migs majority of whom are due to be retired from 2018 and still no order of Tejas is placed let alone production. All indian media is touting IAF will replace Mig21s with MK1 Tejas.And Its developement isnt even complete yet.
Plus the 240 Odd 3rd Generation Jaguar and Mig27 are also sitting in your hangers with no foreseeable replacement. in that numbers. only 36 Rafaels are ordered with no FGFA in sight.

FGFA has been rejected point blank by india

the tejas is in production as you can see

 

[Zhukov]

FGFA has been rejected point blank by india

the tejas is in production as you can see

Yes sir i can see the video.
And thats what is confusing me.
On one hand i am reading this news on so mamy forums that Tejas will start to replace mig 21s in a couple of years.
But other sources claim that Indian Airforce have placed order for Tejas M1A. But M1A variant is still in developement according to almost all sources u have read.
What is cooking in IAF?
It doesmt make any sense. Will you clerify about these conflicting reports if you have real. information about it? What am i missing here? Is IAF acquiring M1 variant instead of M1A?
only M1 have FOC i think for now

 

[Centurion2016]

Yes sir i can see the video.
And thats what is confusing me.
On one hand i am reading this news on so mamy forums that Tejas will start to replace mig 21s in a couple of years.
But other sources claim that Indian Airforce have placed order for Tejas M1A. But M1A variant is still in developement according to almost all sources u have read.
What is cooking in IAF?
It doesmt make any sense. Will you clerify about these conflicting reports if you have real. information about it? What am i missing here? Is IAF acquiring M1 variant instead of M1A?
only M1 have FOC i think for now

I will explain

Tejas Mark one is what you see in above factory ramps.

Tejas Mark 1 has entered service first squadron formed the DAGGERS no45 . Mark one will number just 40 planes

4 entered serevice 2016
6 in 2017
10 in 2018
16 in 2019

In 2020 the Mark one A enteres service .. one huge difference the mark 1a includes the AESA radars and some new EW suites and cockpit displsay changes

Total MARK 1A = 83 planes delivery of all 83 fighyers between 2020-2025

 

[Dazzler]

I will explain

Tejas Mark one is what you see in above factory ramps.

Tejas Mark 1 has entered service first squadron formed the DAGGERS no45 . Mark one will number just 40 planes

4 entered serevice 2016
6 in 2017
10 in 2018
16 in 2019

In 2020 the Mark one A enteres service .. one huge difference the mark 1a includes the AESA radars and some new EW suites and cockpit displsay changes

Total MARK 1A = 83 planes delivery of all 83 fighyers between 2020-2025

Stay on topic and take your Tejas fantasies to the relevant thread.

@waz @WAJsal @TaimiKhan

take note

 

[AlyxMS]

I don't know why so many of you like the JH-7 so much.

It is an outdated aircraft, which the PLA is phasing out and replacing with J-16. There are NO on-going projects to upgrade radar, engines, avionics or anything else. PLA is using JH-7 as a stand-off missile platform, a modified 1950s bomber(H-6K) could've done the same job.

There's no point buying a second hand plane that is outdated before you even bought it. Just like how PAF isn't trying to get more Mirages, it's more or less the same.

Get J-16, get Su-34, get whatever heavy fighter you have access to. They all are much more capable in general. Unless PAF need a plane to fill the "cost effective standoff missile launching platform" role and that role only, there's no point buying JH-7.

And stop fantasizing about JH-7B, there's no such thing. All JH-7B "leaked" pictures are proven to be photoshopped. There might have been a EW version, but that role is replaced by J-16 now.