JF-17/FC-1 Thunder Fighter

[Adux]

Chechnya and Pakistan? Now lets not pull crap out of where the sun dont shine please.

Over Afghanistan, Pakistan and Russia have differing views but its not a zero sum game. Secondly the engine issue pertains more to Sino-Russian relations than Pak-Russian.

Let me just put it this way, you guys can take solace in the words of the whomsoever spoke out, however the fact of the matter remains that PAF will be getting the JF-17s on time. If the JF-17 program was to get pushed out due to engine issues, then PAF would be seen scampering right now placing stop-gap orders right now in the form of PGs etc. Its not because the Russian engines are a non-issue (either by virtue of WS-13 or lack of impact of a statement coming out of some Russian source...pick either one knowing the JF-17 program is on track).

Sunshine and all that matter, I dont care; But that is who lobbies work.
You are the one who is trying to get solace, Please it is NOT some RUSSIAN SOURCE, The second in command after their President; THE DEFENSE MINISTER ,of Russia spoke out against your deal. At the present moment, you dont have anything to trump that. It came on as QOUTE in several Newspapers as well as MSN. IT is already here in this forum in two differnet threads.

About Pakistan not scampering, Maybe they are and you dont know about it; or -maybe they think India can be trusted and they dont need the planes(sarcasm), Or you might be getting a further F-16's. I dont Know.

All I know is Russian Official statement announced DEF MIN, and for now I will stick by it; til you prove anything coming from him, authorized by him or from PUTIN himself

 

[Adux]

Well thats another issue, god knows.

But i feel ultimatly they would allow it, but only after India gets enough teeth. Chinas planning earn some quick bycks with these fighters, there is no stopping China if they begin with something.

Bull,

150 engines is pocket change for the Russians, Do you seriously believe that Russians would play directly into the American hands. US wants them to deliever to Pakistan, The commies over here will loose their say, Russian lobby's biggest trump card against all suppliers is that, they dont supply to Pakistan. The monent they loose that, it becomes an even playing field.
Why would the Russians in their right mind, do that for 150 Engines, when you billions over here : Ready CAsh not Credit.

Sorry i wont buy the arguement, IF they do, then it will be in a candelstine, WS-13A or whatever form , not in a RD-93, The PR the Russian lobby will get, over in our place would be irraperiable and they will loose the status that they enjoy now. Every Russian weapon has priority and prefernce over any other country's. They are going to loose all that "HOLD" for 150 engines. BULL CRAP

Politically and Economically it does not make sense.

 

[blain2]

Sunshine and all that matter, I dont care; But that is who lobbies work.
You are the one who is trying to get solace, Please it is NOT some RUSSIAN SOURCE, The second in command after their President; THE DEFENSE MINISTER ,of Russia spoke out against your deal. At the present moment, you dont have anything to trump that. It came on as QOUTE in several Newspapers as well as MSN. IT is already here in this forum in two differnet threads.

About Pakistan not scampering, Maybe they are and you dont know about it; or -maybe they think India can be trusted and they dont need the planes(sarcasm), Or you might be getting a further F-16's. I dont Know.

All I know is Russian Official statement announced DEF MIN, and for now I will stick by it; til you prove anything coming from him, authorized by him or from PUTIN himself

Not sure why you are carying on with this silly logic. I have already said that you can believe what you want to. The proof of the pudding is in the eating so when you and I start seeing a delay in the JF-17 program then we will know for sure. Right? So far there has been no delay...usually this is something that would be communicated (as was the delay in the F-16 deal).

Also Defence minister of Russia may have said something about the RD-93..that does not mean that directly it impacts the JF-17 program. PAF may have already decided to go down the WS-13 route...so my point is that the statement of the Russian DM may not have ANY impact on PAF (which seems to be reflected in the comments of the Pakistani CJCS).

 

[Contrarian]

First of all, chill out blain, your getting heated up dude!

Really?? And you think most of the Mig-29s are being bought by first world countries? JF-17 depending on how its modified and glassed can easily run circles around the Mig-29 on the export market.

Reply only when you are calm
Now, just tell me how do you propose that JF-17 will run circles around MiG 29 in the export market. Do you know that they are different classes of planes. One is a replacement plane, meant to be cheap so that it can be bought in quantities. The other is a complete air superiority fighter. How can you even compare them?

Now, lets go PARTAY!

 

[Adux]

See, I am not talking about the Delay, If the WS-13 is in the same parameters as the RD-93, they can always switch it over without delay. I dont care about the delay or induction of JF-17, my arguement is on the russian supply of engine, IF you look into my post i have never mentioned about the delay. Russian MINISTER "MAYBE", NO, he said in crystal clear terms. The link and the news over here in the Thread itself.

Nuclear Deal already has a lot of heat over, Commies and the BJP are not happy with it, If the Russians, India's BEST FRIEND(lol) supply Engines to Pakistan, Congress will be held responsbile for loosing India's friend by going for the Nuke Deal, Commie's get the trump card, BJP(pro-america) though oppose the deal now, will agree to the same deal when they are in power. Russian Lobby and its unsurmoutable clout in Indian Parliment will be lost, and US becomes more powerful. Americans will go laughing all the way, Russians arent that Stupid, and not even the congress. Look at the way they are protecting slime-ball qouttorachi- bofors deal, It just gives me the creeps, though i am congressman myself and my dad was an ex-MLA(Member of Legislative Assembly of Kerala); Congress Party wont let that happen on their term, its death knells for them if Russians supply engines.

The only one who is going to laugh are the commies, they give only outside support. Something called "Power without any Responsbilities, Congress wont give easy fodder for the COmmies".

 

[melb4aust]

One is a replacement plane, meant to be cheap so that it can be bought in quantities. The other is a complete air superiority fighter. How can you even compare them?

The actual post was for Blain 2, but i could'nt resist replying.....

This replacement plane is also going to be the complete air superiority fighter for the some third world countries . depending on the type of avionics and other features provided. Will effeciently do the same job as Mig-29 and at low cost.

 

[Contrarian]

The actual post was for Blain 2, but i could'nt resist replying.....

This replacement plane is also going to be the complete air superiority fighter for the some third world countries . depending on the type of avionics and other features provided. Will effeciently do the same job as Mig-29 and at low cost.

Yes, it will do exactly the same thing as MiG 29. Except that now its going to be MiG 29 SMT

BTW the manouverability of MiG 29 is something exceptional!

 

[Adux]

The actual post was for Blain 2, but i could'nt resist replying.....

This replacement plane is also going to be the complete air superiority fighter for the some third world countries . depending on the type of avionics and other features provided. Will effeciently do the same job as Mig-29 and at low cost.

It is not meant to be competitor for MIG-29 , differnet classes,

ITS a NO NO NO, Jf-17 cant handle the MiGs. Its just a low cost fighter

 

[blain2]

First of all, chill out blain, your getting heated up dude!



Reply only when you are calm
Now, just tell me how do you propose that JF-17 will run circles around MiG 29 in the export market. Do you know that they are different classes of planes. One is a replacement plane, meant to be cheap so that it can be bought in quantities. The other is a complete air superiority fighter. How can you even compare them?

Now, lets go PARTAY!

Really?? So I replace my aircraft with JF-17 only to get it shot down by the Mig-29 right.....wooohooo amazingly nice logic there bud!!! :wall: :wall:

Why do you think the Russians have placed restrictions on the JF-17 export (due to the non-reexport clause on the RD-93??) Its because they do not want Chinese to compete with JF-17 in the same market as the Mig-29. Aside from the Mig-35 and Mig-29SMT, your basic Mig-29 is a BS point defence fighter. JF-17 and even FC-1 will have more updated avionics and armament than the vast majority of the Mig-29s that the Russians are themselves using and have sold off to unfortunate buyers around the world.

Please do not even get me started on this silly road.

 

[blain2]

Yes, it will do exactly the same thing as MiG 29. Except that now its going to be MiG 29 SMT

BTW the manouverability of MiG 29 is something exceptional!

Who cares about manueverability in the days of HMS and HOBS AAM solution??

 

[melb4aust]

ITS a NO NO NO, Jf-17 cant handle the MiGs. Its just a low cost fighter

who said that, i said it will do the job at low cost.....

So why would some one like to pay more?

 

[Adux]

Jf-17 can be update with ultra-duper-modern avionics and MiG-29 cant be...right


Melby,

Are you seriously telling me the current MIG 29 can be handled by a JF-17, i have a hard time believing it, and most people in Keypub and the rest dont think so, This drivel is only available in pakistani forums, not even on chinese ones

 

[blain2]

ITS a NO NO NO, Jf-17 cant handle the MiGs. Its just a low cost fighter

Yes so when did low cost rule out an aircraft from being an effective adversary? I pay $10 for a component in China whereas the same component would cost me $20 in the US. Would that automatically make the US component better?

 

[blain2]

Jf-17 can be update with ultra-duper-modern avionics and MiG-29 cant be...right

OK

It would help if you could infuse a bit of logic in your posts. I am not the one suggesting that Mig-29 cannot be turned into an effective aircraft. I am actually saying otherwise that an FC-1/JF-17 can easily outperform the vast majority of Mig-29s on the market/inventory due to more cost effective and updated technology.

 

[Adux]

Who cares about manueverability in the days of HMS and HOBS AAM solution??

MiG 29 doesnt have them or cant be fitted them, I know you are very knowledgable I hope you do know that HMS was invented by the Russians. First.