JF-17 "Extremely close" to the MIG-29: Mikhail Pogosyan

[A.Muqeet khan]

well there is a better reason as well we dont like to see the truth we see what we want to see

 

[mjnaushad]

Sir

Sukhoi 30 MKI is also JV, so by this logic thats half ours ?? Right ??

But we all know the truth thts mki is Russian and jf17(FC1) is Chinese

And yes the world has gone crazy to call it joint venture.....and Chinese are fools to give us 50 % of the profit.....

Mods plz put this guy also in the list i requested in post 421

 

[TaimiKhan]

Pakistanis didn't prove JF-17 is euiqvalent to Mig-29 in term of maneuverability, so definitely not in same league.

What you said applies to Pakistan which is not a owner of FC-1 yet some think that they are the owners. It is China all the way. At least we don't claim we are the owner of Mig-29, we bought it outright, we are just a customer.

If Pakistan had not been the owner, then it would not have flown the fighter to FIA, instead of Pakistani pilots, Chinese pilots would have flown them and answered questions of visitors instead of Pakistani pilots, Chinese pilots would have been doing the photo sessions not Pakistani pilots.

If Pakistan had not been the owner, Egypt would have been doing the negotiations with China, not Pakistan.

If Pakistan had not been the owner, then PAC stalls would not have been showcasing the JF-17 as its product.

Check out youtube, you will get plenty of videos showing turn rate of JF-17 with F-16s, more then enough to tell how maneuverable it is and doing a loop does not tells the maneuverability / superiority of the plane. If JF-17 can do a turn rate nearly as good as a F-16, then common sense dictates it can do the loop also and nearly as good as a F-16. This fact needs common sense, which seems to be absent in you guys when you go on the troll rampage.

I think enough said for now, thanks for your trolling and derailing the thread, now plzzz take some break and enjoy your break.

Same for the other Indian member.

 

[mjnaushad]

Sir,
Ill show you a Chinese source so that not enough for you ???
Please read red underline part you will find out what i want to say

And please answer #438 what contribution can PAC do if they have no experience in this field

When you come back from the holidays.....Read post 441.

All other members,He's out for lunch......So stop replying him. We'll have more chat later.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Is it just me, or that all of a sudden we have newbie Indian members....like loads of them in this thread?

It happens all the time, we send out few of them, more come and take their place, it seems like there is some kind of organized planning.

I sent 2 trolls yesterday, and we got more today, doing the same circling thing with stupidity filled posts.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Im not exactly sure.. but Ive come to the conclusion that put an Indian and Pakistani together.. give the Indian a Honda and the Pakistani a Rolls.. The Indian will still be going .. " That.. is useless. .. Iyee am talling you.. It is made bye hand.. itta is falty. Now you see my Honda is made by Japani robuts.. Just you think it.. Robut precision.. and hand.. no..no.. I have better"

Ok guys, from now if any member came up with what is JF-17 radar or other specifications query, will be thrown out.

Similarly any other kind of rubbish, troll post will get the same treatment.

Don't know about something, go to JF-17 threads or best Google it and find tons of articles telling each and everything.

This thread is about a statement by Russian sources and we are here to discuss that, not other rubbish.

……………………..

Post after getting some basic idea and plzzzz read the first few pages and see what the real discussion was and what is expected out of you guys.

No more trolling would be allowed, straight suspensions or bans would be given, which by the way has already started.

 

[Manticore]

sir murad said that the twr was significantly above .98 --- on this very forum roughly 5 months back

 

[saurabh]

sir murad said that the twr was significantly above .98 --- on this very forum roughly 5 months back

Can somebody explain this thrust to weight ratio?

The empty weight is 6,411 kg
Internal Fuel Capacity: 2300 kg
Hardpoints: with a capacity of 3,629 kg
Total 12340 kg.
So that would mean with full load even with under development 100kN engine t/w ratio would be below 1. So what is the criteria? Would the t/w ratio be calculated considering half payload?

 

[Kompromat]

Can somebody explain this thrust to weight ratio?

The empty weight is 6,411 kg
Internal Fuel Capacity: 2300 kg
Hardpoints: with a capacity of 3,629 kg
Total 12340 kg.
So that would mean with full load even with under development 100kN engine t/w ratio would be below 1. So what is the criteria? Would the t/w ratio be calculated considering half payload?

JFT's will get their weight reduced by using more composite materials in the airframe.

The desired weight for next block is supposed to be comparable to JAS-39 Gripen which is Empty weight: 5,700 kg.

* TempsetII spoken to a JFT pilot who suggested that the current thrust to weight ratio is 1.1

 

[saurabh]

JFT's will get their weight reduced by using more composite materials in the airframe.

The desired weight for next block is supposed to be comparable to JAS-39 Gripen which is Empty weight: 5,700 kg.

* TempsetII spoken to a JFT pilot who suggested that the current thrust to weight ratio is 1.1

This (bold part) is what I want to know. How is it calculated, cause with current engine (86kN), 1.1 twr would correspond to 7800 kg weight of aircraft. For a 6.4 ton plane, it would leave just 1400 kg for fuel and weapon, in contrast to about 5900 kgs capacity.

I know it is not calculated with max weight, I want to know how than this figure is calculated.

 

[Kompromat]

This (bold part) is what I want to know. How is it calculated, cause with current engine (86kN), 1.1 twr would correspond to 7800 kg weight of aircraft. For a 6.4 ton plane, it would leave just 1400 kg for fuel and weapon, in contrast to about 5900 kgs capacity.

I know it is not calculated with max weight, I want to know how than this figure is calculated.

What source do you have about the weight baing correct-Wiki ?

 

[saurabh]

What source do you have about the weight baing correct-Wiki ?

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

³É¶¼·É»ú¹¤Òµ£¨¼¯ÍÅ£©ÓÐÏÞÔðÈι«Ë¾

 

[Quwa]

Comparing radar of JF-17 and MiG-29 SMT at 5m2:

Another look at the KLJ-7's range based on 5m2 RCS target:

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/641/2r70vgw.jpg

Look up: ≥105km (equal or greater than 105km)
Look down: ≥85km
Tracks 10 targets
Engages 2

PS: These are export stats.

Compared to Zhuk ME:

The radar features improved signal processing and has a detection range of up to 120 km vs a 5 m2 RCS target for the export variant, and up to 10 targets tracked and up to 4 attacked at once in air to air mode.

A maximum range difference of 15km sound like "leagues ahead" to anyone? It sure doesn't to me...sure the SMT can engage more targets, but bear in mind the KLJ-7 is a budget radar (even for Chinese) and the stats shown are for potential export clients. PAF might too have its own variant of KLJ-7 (as it does with avionics). That said, even if the pure export-KLJ-7 was with PAF, it simply sets the minimum bar (which is not that low actually) and ascertains that the next radar will be far be better in range, tracking and simultaneous engagement.

AS for maximum speed of Mach 1.8, this has been verified by some of Pakistan's best sources of defence info, such as Usman Ansari. And as for TWR, we have both Pakistani AND non-Pakistani defence analysts speak to the actual PILOTS to confirm it is 1:1 if not higher. And why would anyone take the PAC Kamra website when it doesn't even list the DSI, flight of prototype 6, etc or even recognize the fact that it is now in PAF service? Its completely out of date.

 

[graphican]

In my understanding, any job for which a country likes to induct MIGs is doable with JFT at 1/3rd of induction and half of operational price. Ofcours MIG could still be better at few aspects but JFT outsmarts it for many others as well. Comparing MIGs stronger sides and then claiming MIG is 10% better at "a" and 20% better at "b" doesn't give it the "leap" for which 3 times more money should be spent. Also, JFT is 200%-300% better than MIG in terms of economy of induction and operation. Maneuverability, adaptability, customization, RCS, ability to upgrade, no risk of sanctions and 10s of other factor make JFT even better choice for customers than what MIG has been till now.

So my Indian friends, I feel Pakistan will be inducting 150 of MIG equivalents and 50-100 JFT-block-III that will be even better than MIGs.

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

³É¶¼·É»ú¹¤Òµ£¨¼¯ÍÅ£©ÓÐÏÞÔðÈι«Ë¾

The thrust-to-weight ratio varies continually during a flight. Thrust varies with throttle setting, airspeed, altitude and air temperature. Weight varies with fuel burn and changes of payload.

For aircraft, the quoted thrust-to-weight ratio is often the maximum static thrust at sea-level divided by the maximum takeoff weight.

In cruising flight, the thrust-to-weight ratio of an aircraft is the inverse of the lift-to-drag ratio because thrust is equal to drag, and weight is equal to lift.

Please keep in mind that the PAC website has not been updated for a very long time & since its the source of info for many other sites , hence the Info is not accurate.
Moreover actual weight of the aircraft , actual RCS , Avionics and Radar capabilities , BUS and DataLink info is classified secret & whatever is available over the Internet is General specs for general public to see.

wait for Nov , we will see how it flies in Zuhi airshow.