JF-17 Block 3 vs. J-10C:

[ARMalik]

I think Pakistan erred in picking JF-17.

They could have procured more capable 150 J-10 for the price of 200 JF-17

Oh Gosh, another Indian Goose on this forum.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Hi,

The JF17 Blk 1 cost pakistan 15 mil a piece---the BLK2 cost about 17.5 mil a piece.

The BLK 3's cost is about 24 mil a piece.

The reason for getting the J10C----.

The BLK 3 JF17 is not fully weapons and electronics equipment integrated aircraft yet.

The J10 C however is fully integrated & functional aircraft with all its weapons and electronics---.

Pakistan is facing a threat now---and in order to meet the threat head on---J10 are procured.

If Paf had enough time at hand---the J10 would not have been procured.

Finally a great response. Thank you for the education.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think Pakistan erred in picking JF-17.

They could have procured more capable 150 J-10 for the price of 200 JF-17

Hi,

Well---if pakistan had done right---then they would have procured a 100 F16's after 9/11 and gotten done with the problem. Had peace with India and moved on. But no.

Now look at Gripen---started in the late 80's and after 25 years in service have become an extremely lethal 4.5 gen aircraft.

The JF17 BLK 3--started in the early 2000's would be almost 90% or maybe 100% at par with the Gripen NG.

JF17 is a smaller version of the F16 that the Paf has and that is what the Paf wanted.

It has fulfilled the Paf needs very well other than the numbers.

 

[ARMalik]

I understand but my question is why didn't Pakistan choose J-10B but went for JF-17 instead but now buying J-10C. That is where I am confused.

Question: Why does india, country of 1.3 Billion people, unable to make a PROPER fighter jet, and unable to properly fly the samosa plane Tejas ??

 

[TheSolution]

I think Pakistan erred in picking JF-17.

They could have procured more capable 150 J-10 for the price of 200 JF-17

From my amateur understanding, and someone correct me if I am wrong, the JF-17 has more multi-role capabilities, it can be inducted in large numbers, due to lower price, and serve as the back bone of the air force.

While the J-10C is an air superiority focused fighter which isn't as good at multi-role missions, like ground strike, but A2A combat it will excel.

Keep in mind, one is lightweight while the other is medium weight.

They will have slightly different distinct missions, and also replace different older fighters that get retired in the future, like Mirages and F7s. They are complementary to each other, J-10C provided a much needed boost in air combat which I think the JF-17 lagged slightly behind, especially at WVR.

It's hard to compromise on either when up against a potent adversary. Whereas China already has available jets that can take up any role the JF-17 can offer, so it's not necessary.

 

[MH.Yang]

From my amateur understanding, and someone correct me if I am wrong, the JF-17 has more multi-role capabilities, it can be inducted in large numbers, due to lower price, and serve as the back bone of the air force.

While the J-10C is an air superiority focused fighter which isn't as good at multi-role missions, like ground strike, but A2A combat it will excel.

Keep in mind, one is lightweight while the other is medium weight.

They will have slightly different distinct missions, and also replace different older fighters that get retired in the future, like Mirages and F7s. They are complementary to each other, J-10C provided a much needed boost in air combat which I think the JF-17 lagged slightly behind, especially at WVR.

It's hard to compromise on either when up against a potent adversary. Whereas China already has available jets that can take up any role the JF-17 can offer, so it's not necessary.

China's strategic focus is on the East, especially the Taiwan Strait and the South China Sea. Do you know how far Tseng Mu Misha (the southernmost island in China) is from Hainan airport? 1500 km. So PLAAF doesn't like light fighters. China's main 4G fighters are J16 and J10c. One is a heavy fighter, the other is a medium fighter. The reason PLAAF is not equipped with JF17 is that JF17 is a light aircraft and has nothing to do with the performance of JF17.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Question: Why does india, country of 1.3 Billion people, unable to make a PROPER fighter jet, and unable to properly fly the samosa plane Tejas ??

That is a valid question. I think it is because Indians lack intelligence unlike China, Russia and Western people.

From my amateur understanding, and someone correct me if I am wrong, the JF-17 has more multi-role capabilities, it can be inducted in large numbers, due to lower price, and serve as the back bone of the air force.

While the J-10C is an air superiority focused fighter which isn't as good at multi-role missions, like ground strike, but A2A combat it will excel.

Keep in mind, one is lightweight while the other is medium weight.

They will have slightly different distinct missions, and also replace different older fighters that get retired in the future, like Mirages and F7s. They are complementary to each other, J-10C provided a much needed boost in air combat which I think the JF-17 lagged slightly behind, especially at WVR.

It's hard to compromise on either when up against a potent adversary. Whereas China already has available jets that can take up any role the JF-17 can offer, so it's not necessary.

Both JF-17 and J-10 are multi role fighters. It is just that JF-17 is little smaller/lighter fighter limiting its range.

 

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

I am not sure why you are asking dumb questions. Please do some research and come back if you don’t understand.

First of all, China's main threat comes in Southern China sea (US Navy) not Himalayas (IAF) where as Pakistan threat is soley IAF from north, south,west. China needs more powerful engine as their air combat radius is far higher than Pakistan and also a plane which can carry more weapon load. For us, light weight category fighter planes, as a fast interceptor, perfectly fits the picture since India-Pakistan land mass is completely joined together. Also scope of the JF17 project was to replace Mirages, F7s/PGs NOT F16s. J10s are now incoporated only when we see we ain't getting more F16s. If supply of latest F16s kept rolling in then perhaps we would had not gone for J10s.

All in all, we are very happy with JF17 program, and with block 3s, we are getting capabilities almost equivalent to F16block 52s/J10s, especially PL15 firing capability, coupled with AESA radar which depicts that our both first (MLUed F16s + J10Cs) and the second tier fighter planes (thunders + Mirages) are almost at par in many ways.

Nope.

JF-17 took Pakistan's aerospace industry at another level. JF-17 is a numbers fighter & it was needed when it came. PAF did not have time to wait for J-10C. PAF would still be procuring advanced variants of F-16 if these were available. J-10C is the right decision at the right time. It has no bearing on JF-17, which has its own role to fill.

Why are all countries studying single middle push and double middle push instead of single big push except China's J-10?
Because the F16 has brought the performance of single big push fighter to the extreme.

The aerodynamic design of F16 is the most balanced aerodynamic design so far. It highlights the mobility in subsonic and transonic segments, taking into account the low altitude mobility and supersonic performance.
The maximum flight speed of F16 is 2M, and the horizontal growth rate before 1.5M is also good.
F16 has high lift coefficient, low wing load and high thrust weight ratio, which makes F16 very stable.
the subsystem of F16 is reliable, including engine, radar and cockpit (perfect bubble cockpit, giving the driver excellent cockpit vision).
F16 is also cheap, strong and durable. The service life of F16 is 6000 hours, and the service life of some F16 is more than 10000 hours
F16 also experienced a lot of actual combat. For example, from 1985 to 1989, Pakistan's F16 shot down 10 Soviet fighters in the border area, including 4 Su22, 2 an26, 1 an24, 1 Su2 and 2 MIG23.

F16b50 / 52 is a very important upgrade. It is equipped with 130kN high thrust engine (f110-ge-129 or f-100-pw-229), which enables F16 to increase the empty weight to 9 tons when ensuring the thrust weight ratio.
Conformal oil tank is added at the back of F16b50 / 52, which increases the internal oil volume by 1.5 times.
F16b50 / 52 can use harpoon anti-ship missile.
Yes, the F16b50 / 52 radar has not been replaced, not electric scanning. F16b50/52's radar and missile range is not as good as J10C, but its low altitude mobility is better than J10C, and F16b50/52 is more multifunctional, and it also has the conformal oil tank.
Comprehensive technical level, J10c and F16b50 / 52 are at the same level.

27th Feb || Celebrating Swift Retort Day || Unveiling the JF-17 thunder Block 3 of PAF || PTV World​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497628459195154438

 

[PakAlp]

disagree with the part in bold, blk52s aren't even close to combat capabilities of the J10Cs, blk52s lack IRST, AESA radar, while the J10Cs have then and on top of that they are also armed with the 155km range PL15s and HOBS PL10s, it outclasses the blk52s that carry the AIM120Cs with a max range of 110km and don't carry any HOBS missiles. Plus the J10Cs carry fast more offensive sensors than the blk52s do.

PAF's F16s are destined for a purely defensive role supplemented by F7PGs, the offensive punches will be delivered by the JF17, J10C & Mirage trio.

The best possible scenario for Pakistan. We always needed a lethal plane for offensive punch and J10CP provides just that.

 

[Danish Moazzam]

JF-17 exist because it was to be a cot effective bulk fighter force. Targeted replacement for F-7 and Mirage III/V. The heavy task was assigned to F-16. When the thunder program started it was clear that F-16 will be provided and we will have a sizeable fleet. However things went from bad to worst for the Vipers and that is where J-10 came into the picture.

PAF has been operating on right sizing, so J-10 and F-16 would have been redundant to each other hence was not procured.
Also it was a nascent stages of development, Meant it was not ready to be the tip of the spear of PAF Arsenal, and was too expensive for the bulk of the operation.

Now the latest iteration and the development poured by the Chinese has made it a very very potent and formidable prospect. Add to it that the F-16 chapter is 99.99% closed PAF had to take the decision. Rather than wait for something to come up or break the bank PAF did the smart thing.

They went ahead with the Thunders, provided development input/experience for the Dragons. Now they have a home grown 4.5 gen backbone aircraft that is bulk of the fleet and at prices that could not be possible anywhere else, A medium weight aircraft that can take the offence to the enemy.

JF-17 can be made in house based on the requirement and are also an export prospect generating revenue, while J-10 can be had in good number and with them being in a huge number in Chinese force urgent/expedited deliveries can be made. Secondly they will be directly benefitting from the upgrades being done by the Chinese for the 5th gen fighters.

So both the decision are very sound and each plane has its role to Play.

The best thing is that with the newer BVR missile available to us, the Indian A/C will be under constant threat in case of a conflict.

 

[PakAlp]

People need to understand how useful the Jf17 is, we had 300+ planes to replace and we could not afford to buy 300 f16s and J10 was not around at that time. Pakistan decided to make a light weight fighter jet with cutting edge technology, enough to keep the enemy away from the borders, we also make the plane ourselves, cost saving, experience, jobs etc. At the moment we have 136 planes but it will go to 250 planes, we can even make 500 or 502 planes, its all in our hands, we can install any type of weapons (f16s we're restricted). What more benefit could we have.

J10CP like you mentioned has nothing to do with Jf17. People on PDF mentioned for many years that we will buy another 4th+ generation plane, it went from Eurofighter to J10A, J10B, then to su35, J11, J16 etc. Finally J10CP was the answer, we needed a medium class plane which could be used as a strike/offensive role, it had to be cutting edge and money should not be the issue, we needed the capability.

Hopefully it will be used for the navy aswell. Pakistan needs a plane that could go further in to the Indian ocean for attack role.

250 Jf17s
125 J10CPs
75 F16s
450 planes are enough for us.

The airforce can now concentrate on the 5th generation platform.

 

[PradoTLC]

. Both aircraft designed by China and both aircraft with same chief and deputy designer.

the difference being heavy inputs were given by PAF on JF-17

I think Pakistan erred in picking JF-17.

They could have procured more capable 150 J-10 for the price of 200 JF-17

next time PAF should ask a avaition champion like you for your advise.

So tell us , when JF-17 were bombing India in 2019 where was the LCA- Tejas?...

why was a 1950s Mig-21 built by Russians sent and not a year 2000 build LCA assembled by Indians not sent?

I am confused.

 

[Trango Towers]

the difference being heavy inputs were given by PAF on JF-17




next time PAF should ask a avaition champion like you for your advise.

So tell when JF-17 were bombing India in 2019 where was the LCA- Tejas?...

why was a 1950s Mig-21 built by Russians sent and not a year 2000 build LCA assembled by Indians not sent?

I am confused.

Assembled....ouch.
Now that's a starchy bitch of a reply. Eye gouging type loooool

 

[LeGenD]

disagree with the part in bold, blk52s aren't even close to combat capabilities of the J10Cs, blk52s lack IRST, AESA radar, while the J10Cs have then and on top of that they are also armed with the 155km range PL15s and HOBS PL10s, it outclasses the blk52s that carry the AIM120Cs with a max range of 110km and don't carry any HOBS missiles. Plus the J10Cs carry fast more offensive sensors than the blk52s do.

PAF's F16s are destined for a purely defensive role supplemented by F7PGs, the offensive punches will be delivered by the JF17, J10C & Mirage trio.

PAF acquired 36 Conformal Fuel Tank (CFT) kits for its F-16C/D Block 52+ fleet to make it possible for these jet fighters to strike at potential targets deep inside India should the need arise. Please check following post for relevant information:

New fighter for PAF Doctrine?

From last few months we are hearing talk of J 11/16. While it looked the least expected option keeping in view copyright constraint on China. But the theory going round is that Russian wants to sell SU 35 but due to india pressure might settle for allowing China to sell J 16. If this...

defence.pk

Granted that Pakistani F-16 fleet is NOT equipped with latest technologies and munitions but these jet fighters are still better than any jet fighter in the inventory of IAF with the exception of French-supplied Rafale F3R as was shown in Operation Swift Retort. These can also be used in offensive capacity.

PAF might not have the option to upgrade its F-16s anytime soon though.

Agreed with you on the merits of J-10C for PAF otherwise.

The JF17 BLK 3--started in the early 2000's would be almost 90% or maybe 100% at par with the Gripen NG.

Err... NO.

 

[PradoTLC]

Indians lack intelligence unlike China, Russia and Western people.

I know… that is why the words Indian Intelligence is a oxymoron