JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Irfan Baloch]

BTW have we managed to secure any order for JF-17s?

Yes
PAF
Mayannar
Nigeria

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

In this years PAF special program on PTV world, it was revealed that avionics integration lab for Block-III is under construction at PAC right now.

The PAF professionals give us immense pride, may Allah bestow them with more knowledge and power. Ameen

 

[My-Analogous]

This is the official timeline for Block-3.

2020: x2
2021: x12
2022: x12
2023: x12
2024: x12

Brother we are a year late at least because of Engine. May be we have to go with RD93 and later RD93 MA

"The engine is expected to enter fight test mode towards the end of the year which means the JF-17 Block III would enter flight tests with the RD-93MA engine sometime in 2021-22 at the earliest".

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ts__Enters_Thermal_Chamber_Tests#.X1utJNZRXzI

 

[ziaulislam]

Brother we are a year late at least because of Engine. May be we have to go with RD93 and later RD93 MA

"The engine is expected to enter fight test mode towards the end of the year which means the JF-17 Block III would enter flight tests with the RD-93MA engine sometime in 2021-22 at the earliest".

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ts__Enters_Thermal_Chamber_Tests#.X1utJNZRXzI

seems engines would be delivered next year..what does that mean for current block III..i dont know..
so we know that rd93ma is coming but whether it will be block 3 or block 4 is yet to be figured out

 

[Figaro]

Is the RD-93 really that underpowered? I think the thrust level isn't too far off from the optimum level for the JF-17.

 

[araz]

is it only me or did someone else notice that the latest programme on JFT seems to suggest that we are now building the whole fuselage. If so this is another very significant development for us.
A

 

[Chak Bamu]

نیوکیلئر میزائل صلاحیت والے جے ایف - 17 تھنڈر فائٹر کے جدید ورژن بلاک 3 کی فضائی برتری دشمنوں کیلئے ہیبت انگیز ہے

https://thefoji.com/jf-17-thunder-block-3-fighter-jet

Please post in English, as per forum rules. This is an international forum.

 

[My-Analogous]

Is the RD-93 really that underpowered? I think the thrust level isn't too far off from the optimum level for the JF-17.

For block 2 No but for Block 3 Yes. AESA and other goody need powerful engine. Plus it is directly related to weapon load as well

 

[ziaulislam]

Is the RD-93 really that underpowered? I think the thrust level isn't too far off from the optimum level for the JF-17.

No its not
But jf17 certainly is too small and limited endurance for modern era jets..its peers like LCA mk2 and Gripen NG will boast 15-20% better specs.


In order to increase its MTOW it needs a better engine. Rd 93 ma is the solution.
When and if jf17 will get is the question. I think the "if" has been answered recently ..we are waiting on the "when"

 

[jedijedi]

Is the RD-93 really that underpowered? I think the thrust level isn't too far off from the optimum level for the JF-17.

What do you call power of an Engine .... This term could be peak military thrust, or peak thrust overall (read afterburner), a combination of both or even the time it takes to spool from any point on the power curve to peak thrust. Here are 2 engines being used on contiguous variants of F16s.

• General Electric F110-GE-129: 17,155 lbf thrust dry, 29,500 lbf with afterburner
• Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229: 17,800 lbf thrust dry, 29,160 lbf with afterburner

One has better military thrust while the other has higher peak thrust. Considering these numbers, which engine would we call optimum for the F16, we know PAF uses only 1 of these but there are other F16 operators who go for the other engine option.
Consider another example. Two jet engines have the exact same military and peak thrust but one takes 20% longer to reach that peak thrust, we know the engine we want in our jets. PAF thinkers may have this and other considerations like a comparison with direct adversary jets than just the thrust output numbers us average joes see off Wikipedia.
Additionally, a key power related variable is the peak power of the engine available for auxiliaries/avionics. We do not know the exact numbers but it is beyond doubt that Block 3 has a way more comprehensive avionics package compared to the first 2 blocks. Do we really know whether additional power requirements might not warrant a different engine unless PAF is ready to make compromises or do we even know that first 2 blocks did not have to make compromises on avionics because of the available power or lack thereof.
Efficiency seems to be part of PAF ethos which operates single-engined jets. Longevity and resistance to catastrophic failures are other no brainer considerations in such a case and we know that the current JF17 engine as reliable as it is, has a lower service life compared to the latest western engines. This alone might push PAF into pursuing another engine if the costs do not outweigh benefits.
Remember the JF17 pilot interview on hushkit and I quote ... “With the current config engine produces sufficient power – but who doesn’t like a bit of extra thrust?". I took a hint.
Lastly, jets are designed to handle way more stress than daily operations are likely going to throw at them i.e. the G forces its flight control system will allow it to endure or the peak thrust its Engine can throw out the back. It is not even close so considering all these, while I understand the rationale behind your statement, I can't really be sure about the optimum requirements of JF17.

 

[PakShaheen79]

So we will see first 2 Block III flying in 2021 and serial production will follow from 2022. Engine news came very late considering the fact that there left only 90 odd days till end of 2020. COVID also playing its role in delays. I think right now CAC is waiting for arrival of RD-93MA. If engines arrives sometimes in Nov-Dec this year, we can expect to see more testing in the first quarter of next year and possible induction of first 2 Block IIIs till June-Aug 2021.

 

[Marker]

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...-93ma-engine-to-pakistan-for-jf-17-block-iii/

UEC sources told that the engine upgrade work is under contract from a Chinese company for which over 100 such engines is to be manufactured.

Is this contract covers indirect ToT to "third" country????

 

[Deino]

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...-93ma-engine-to-pakistan-for-jf-17-block-iii/

UEC sources told that the engine upgrade work is under contract from a Chinese company for which over 100 such engines is to be manufactured.

Is this contract covers indirect ToT to "third" country????

I must admit this report is now recycled again and again not knowing how reliable or credible it is ... as such basing any further speculations on that single report is IMO a bit far-fetched?!

 

[Marker]

With the successful completion of the thermal chamber test stage, it will be possible to proceed to flight design tests. A set of tests in the TsIAM large thermal pressure chamber will be held as part of the experimental design work on the RD-93MA, a UEC statement said today.

During the tests, the engine will simulate conditions as close as possible to actual flight. Here, the BARK-93MA, the automatic control system of the engine, designed and manufactured at UEC-Klimov, will also be put to test.
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ts__Enters_Thermal_Chamber_Tests#.X4P-AdAzbIU
After completion of these tests, RD-93MA will be further tested on two proto type JF-17 Blk 3 aircraft.
Assuming two engines were delivered by mid November, then both proto types will be on test trial for at least 60 to 90 days.

Serial production of aircraft may start by the end of January or may be earlier.

China might have started production of mid fuselage as per plan.

What will be the delivery time frame for at least 20 RD-93MA engines from Russia????

I must admit this report is now recycled again and again not knowing how reliable or credible it is ... as such basing any further speculations on that single report is IMO a bit far-fetched?!

What about following sources?
(1)
https://quwa.org/2020/07/12/is-the-new-klimov-rd-93ma-engine-an-option-for-the-jf-17-2/
(2) https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ts__Enters_Thermal_Chamber_Tests#.X4P-AdAzbIU
All three sources are quoting United Engine Corporation (UEC) announcement on 8 July 2020.

 

[PakShaheen79]

I must admit this report is now recycled again and again not knowing how reliable or credible it is ... as such basing any further speculations on that single report is IMO a bit far-fetched?!

Nothing new, it is same old report from July earlier this year. It seems some major changes in Engine is causing delay in Block-III and it is my guess that performance of Thunder during Op SR has a lot to do with modifications in engine other than increased thrust along with host of other upgrades in aircraft overall structure.