JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Alpha BeeTee]

there is also solid state cooling and solid state heat exchange. These consume less power but are also less effective. They often use Peltier circuits

Space constraints appear to be more of an issue than JF-17's current power plant capacity.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Without AESA, how can JF-17B be an equivalent to blk3?

My bad, the JF-17B will start out with the KLJ-7, but it was designed to carry an AESA radar. But that news came before the PAF announcing plans for 26 Bs. I expect the PAF to equip them along similar lines as the Block-3.

After looking at talks about NG-JF-17 (may be block IV and onwards) , My guess about block III is we wont going to see much changes in airframe , yes there can be some miner ones , only thing I can imagine is more composite material especially in wings to add one more hard point and on air-intakes so they can take pods ….. Then all the older blocks will be upgraded to Block III stander later in future( As MLU may be in 2025) … This can be the cheapest , smartest and best-ever move to replace older F-6s and F-7s …..
Now NG-JF-17 will going to be different thing , just like some very honorable posters said , NG-JF-17 will going to be brother in arm for our AZM (FGFA)……… NG-JF17 can replace F-7Pgs ….

In my view, a 'JF-17 NG' probably won't be very different from the JF-17 Block-3. The best template to look at is to see what Saab is doing with the Gripen E/F (aka Gripen NG). Yes, they did re-open the Gripen design a bit to create more range, payload, etc, but they didn't make a fundamentally new design. Likewise, look at what HAL is doing with the Tejas Mk2. Once again, a lot of improvements, but same fundamental design.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Finally some news ... Good going. Desperate to see first one taking-off.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There has been some talk of distortion of radar towards the areas where the side arrays and central array overlap. However Iam sure PAF will test things thoroughly before adopting any radar. The possibility of in house development/assembly opens up so many doors it is unimaginable. Think of all the other applications and uses in areas where are are curently short.
A

Your equipment are your prisoners, when you buy from a third-party you become their prisoners....

 

[CHACHA"G"]

My bad, the JF-17B will start out with the KLJ-7, but it was designed to carry an AESA radar. But that news came before the PAF announcing plans for 26 Bs. I expect the PAF to equip them along similar lines as the Block-3.


In my view, a 'JF-17 NG' probably won't be very different from the JF-17 Block-3. The best template to look at is to see what Saab is doing with the Gripen E/F (aka Gripen NG). Yes, they did re-open the Gripen design a bit to create more range, payload, etc, but they didn't make a fundamentally new design. Likewise, look at what HAL is doing with the Tejas Mk2. Once again, a lot of improvements, but same fundamental design.

If we do that (gripen NG) and open up space , that will make JF-17 a proper medium category bird … I think that should be the goal …….. After all JF-17 is here to replace all the A-5s , F-6s and F7s .. 270+ JF-17s(all blocks) …….
I am only worried about Mirages …… They are delta wing and have some very specific role .. We need delta wing to replace them .. Let us see what time show us..

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If we do that (gripen NG) and open up space , that will make JF-17 a proper medium category bird … I think that should be the goal …….. After all JF-17 is here to replace all the A-5s , F-6s and F7s .. 270+ JF-17s(all blocks) …….
I am only worried about Mirages …… They are delta wing and have some very specific role .. We need delta wing to replace them .. Let us see what time show us..

They can consider that for Project Azm/FGFA.

 

[GumNaam]

If we do that (gripen NG) and open up space , that will make JF-17 a proper medium category bird … I think that should be the goal …….. After all JF-17 is here to replace all the A-5s , F-6s and F7s .. 270+ JF-17s(all blocks) …….
I am only worried about Mirages …… They are delta wing and have some very specific role .. We need delta wing to replace them .. Let us see what time show us..

medium category bird means a bigger cross section which we don't want. Having a bird with a relatively small cross section that the best of enemy radars can't see until the bird itself is within the range of shooting down the enemy is an ace we wanna keep in our sleeves.

They can consider that for Project Azm/FGFA.

so does that mean that mirages are gonna be in service for the next decade?

 

[crankthatskunk]

Except for the demeaning & Indian trolls over the Internet, Jf-17 is in-fact our pride & recognition in Fighter Jets club. Interestingly, PAF is the only Air Force that was involved in designing a Jet as such. Block-III is going to wreck havoc for them psychologically as well viz a viz their lower standard of even licensed production let alone Tejas. However, not the topic here so I wouldn't continue.

Please do continue.
Anything to destroy the confidence of the Bhindians.

there is also solid state cooling and solid state heat exchange. These consume less power but are also less effective. They often use Peltier circuits

Liquid cooling is way better.
I also get cooled from a cold shower.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

so does that mean that mirages are gonna be in service for the next decade?

Looks like it.

 

[The Eagle]

I would say, JF-17 only needs to bring down one SU-30MKI or one Mirage 2000-V......that will be the end IAF for good.
You will not see them again in the air.

Whether it does or not, JF-17 has already served in given capacity more than expected on 27th Feb, and only the one at receiving end can tell how was it but they wouldn't. I will recall the words of a PLAAF pilot from an exercise that "It's hard to find thunder like catching a bee and bites like a dog, it wouldn't let you go".

 

[messiach]

Initial batches will still be carrying passive scanning. Active electronics needs significant inhouse solution at the moment. The power plant with idle max thrust at sea level to idle max weight ratio reported >1. @Oscar @MastanKhan

We are looking at two different radars option for JF-17 fleet Block-II & Block-III.

These two Radars may possibly solve curiousity in regard to AESA Radar for Block-II & Block-III. Many had question on mind that KLJA or LKF601E may or may not fit into nose cone of Block-II, so the possible scenario as following may help to understand possible integration.


LKF601E AESA radar seems to be possible option for Block-II for its small size & air-cooling that deals with any low power. Clearly mentions FC-1 so one can assume that the same is purely offered for JF-17 (Block-II for its size & apparent fitment) AESA solution with 170 KM claimed range of 15 target tracking & 4 locks at the same time. Or, to go by the word FC-1 that seems an upgrade for the foreign customers of Block-II if they interest. That said "being fully air cooling, which significantly reduces system weight and the need for rewiring, and the secondly is to replace the existing KF-17 radar without major modification".

Furthermore, the chatter has it that the same AESA radar was too on offer for Block-III but not sure.

So far known details are:

• Frequency: X band

• Range:
  • Look-up: Fighter-sized targets at 170 km
    
    
  • Look-down: large targets from 200 km in the Sea (Ships)

• Total targets tracked: tracks up to 15 targets simultaneously and engages four with air/air missiles

• Weight: 69kg + 35kg (radar + (processor + power module))

View attachment 576746
With 864 TR modules.

And seems they did some tests after installing one on JF-17 Block-II

Apparently, the serial number also seems to be 06 which is also highlighted in one of the above pictures at 2018 China Airshow.

Now coming to Block-III possibility of Chinese AESA radar in view of more detection range, power & built in capabilities. I can guess that it would be KLJA with two different models being displayed. One with front Array only and the other with one front Array + two side Arrays as well. Both Radars the KLJ7A & KLJ7A with side looking arrays are pictured in single frame.

• Frequency: X band

• TR: 1000+

• Range:
  • Look-up: 170 km for targets of 3m² RCS (RCS of smaller or stealthier aircraft...none in possession of indian armed forces....also drones)
  • 200 km against aerial target with 5m² RCS (RCS of base model Rafael and Gripen...Su-30MKI has even higher RCS @ 20m²)

• Total targets tracked: 15 in TWS (Track-While-Scan) mode and engage 4 simultaneously

• Weight: ≤120 kg

KLJ7A with only front facing Array is claimed to be the ideal option for JF-17 Block-III.

Now the KLJ7A with side arrays is claimed to have 600 TR modules for side arrays that are more than SU-57 side array AESA radar, that provides JF-17 Block-III with front, sides & coverage from back as well due to side arrays placement. However, this upgrade seems to be expensive and may need more power that gives a possibility for some future projection like NxGF.

There is a possibility that we may wait for AVIC KLJ7A retrofit version for Block-II planes (Block-I upgraded scenario) to avoid having two different AESA radars from two different suppliers but that is unclear and my opinion only.

Then comes the possibility that in my view, seems to be latest update & carries more weight (thanks to @messiach for valuable input) that we are looking at in-house solution for AESA radar (indigenous to the extent) with the help of foreign friends including assistance from Russia as well. This solution comes into mind for the our freedom of integration of weapons from different sources either be it Chinese or Western. That seems possible to me because Chinese will not share source code with Western Radar and neither the Western Source will provide source codes for integration with Chinese Radars. So, to solve this issue we are moving towards an independent Radar built in house so that none of the sources will have any issue in regard to source codes for weapon integration on our fighter fleet.

What comes may next, is yet unclear though, few of above posts pushed me to share my observation and understanding as well.

I will however, request the members that please let's keep Block-II discussion out of this thread. I did on my part but that was in regard to LKF601E AESA Radar possibility for the Block-III as well.

Thanks to the all sources (OSINT) is done here.

Regards,

 

[The Eagle]

The power plant with idle max thrust to idle max weight ratio reported >1.

Pleeej.....

 

[GumNaam]

Looks like it.

I read a long time ago, in the early 90s in fact in the jane's book of world aircrafts that Pakistan's air complex is practically able to make all components and airframes of the Mirage 3s and 5s...is that true? If so then extending longevity of these birds shouldn't be a problem since after every major overhaul, it is practically a new aircraft albeit a 3rd generation one, no?

 

[Ultima Thule]

By heat exhangers I meant heat exchanging medium i.e liquid cooled. Blk2s and 1s can't have those liquid cooled AESA models.

If there is option that we can get AIR COOLED AESA (LFK601) for Block-1/2, then why we need to fit Liquid COOLED AESA (KLJ-7A) with heat exchanger for Block-1/2, Liquid Cooled AESA is only for Block-3 and Air cooled AESA is a option for block-1/2

 

[GumNaam]

If there is option that we can get AIR COOLED AESA (LFK601) for Block-1/2, then why we need to fit Liquid COOLED AESA (KLJ-7A) with heat exchanger for Block-1/2, Liquid Cooled AESA is only for Block-3 and Air cooled AESA is a option for block-1/2

What, what? So blk 3 is with equipped with a liquid cooled AESA KLJ-7A radar while blk 1 & 2 are gonna be equipped with an air cooled KLJ-7A AESA radar? How many versions of KLJ-7A radars are there anyway???