JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[jamesisi]

Pakistani production capacity seems to be 25 / year

so

Year 2021 = 25
Year 2022 = 25 ( as 50 were ordered)
Year 2023 = block 4 - 25

the production capacity is based on 8+14 jf-17 b + NAF 3 Jf-17 block II = 25 aircraft delivered this year with covid

so our capacity may well be 30 aircraft a year or two squadrons a year

k

I wish we can produce 50 per year,

 

[FuturePAF]

ALCM can be used for this role!

Definitely, but needs to be made as small as possible (while still being able to carry out the full range of capabilities) so that many can be carried at once; AI controlled EW swarm

 

[Syed1.]

Let me preface this by saying I am quite a noob in matters related to warfare.



Isn't it a strategic disadvantage in having 300 jets of the same type albeit a competent jet like the Thunder. The enemy only has one kind of jet to strategize against.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Let me preface this by saying I am quite a noob in matters related to warfare.



Isn't it a strategic disadvantage in having 300 jets of the same type albeit a competent jet like the Thunder. The enemy only has one kind of jet to strategize against.

look bro all over the world most major air forces has reducing their type inventory
(which is 4-5) to 2-3 jets reducing the costs of operating/logistic/maintenance etc etc

 

[Khan vilatey]

Where do get the rate of 25/year, we are producing block-2 16 per year???

I was wrong bro, apologies 8 were delivered in dec 2019 14 in dec 2020 + 3 NAF jets

k

 

[Ghessan]

The best just got better

what is this on the spine behind canopy?

 

[Path-Finder]

Definitely, but needs to be made as small as possible (while still being able to carry out the full range of capabilities) so that many can be carried at once; AI controlled EW swarm

That would be something an AI based air launched Drone with EW capabilities with two way secure comms that can scan areas, detect air defences and let strike package know of the threat's present at the area. Loitre and play its part in EW for the strike package and even become dispensable at striking high value targets.

possibilities are endless.

 

[Shabi1]

They'll probably continue flying the JF-17 well past the 20-year mark. We can keep the F-7Ps and Mirages up, so I don't think PAC will have trouble with the JF-17.

I guess the Chinese are offering the PAF a net-new capability through the J-10CE. It could be a VLRAAM (e.g., PL-15), or something else, but I'd wager that is the reason why the PAF would be interested.

However, if the PAF acquires the J-10CE, it wouldn't be to plug a short-term need. Pakistan can't afford to think along those lines.

The J-10CE would fit into the PAF's long-term needs, e.g., complement the NGFA. The PAF could use the J-10CE and NGFA together for offensive operations, while the JF-17 is the main defensive asset.

Despite similarity in both aircraft capability J-10CE/JF-17 mix fits PAF needs as it is similar to US F-15/F-16 mix (both can carry same weapons but one has better loadout and range). The J-10CE offers the extra capability needed for a better strike aircraft. But PAF resources are limited and it is pursuing a JF-17 B3 acquisition and NGFA development as well as a fleet that is exposed to wear and tear and needs updates. The JF-17 fleet and early builds in particular are getting overhauls and it is right time to give them a Block-2+ upgrade with the retrofit AESA air cooled radar as well as other avionic updates. An upgrade to existing JF-17 fleet would give us the rapid number boost in platforms that can match the Rafale in AA, while JF-17B3s are inducted. With MALE/HALE UCAVs and other programs there is simply too much being done and all need $.

Instead of J-10CE wouldn't it would be better use of resources if PAF spent the same money on Viper upgrades for it's F-16 fleet, surely they would start getting impact from wear and tear again soon and form a sizeable part of the fleet which PAF would like to keep flying. Reason why Pakistan hasnt been buying US has been money and not US unwillingness, if PAF is truly willing there is likely hood Pakistan can get a deal under Biden once he is settled in. Since USAF is retiring AMRAAMs for AIM-260, the AIM-120D (160km) is now the standard model up for export now as being offered to Canada and Taiwan. US should be confident we can keep their hardware separate as proven with Blk-25 measures. This would also maintain PAFs diversity in suppliers.

 

[jupiter2007]

Despite similarity in both aircraft capability J-10CE/JF-17 mix fits PAF needs as it is similar to US F-15/F-16 mix (both can carry same weapons but one has better loadout and range). The J-10CE offers the extra capability needed for a better strike aircraft. But PAF resources are limited and it is pursuing a JF-17 B3 acquisition and NGFA development as well as a fleet that is exposed to wear and tear and needs updates. The JF-17 fleet and early builds in particular are getting overhauls and it is right time to give them a Block-2+ upgrade with the retrofit AESA air cooled radar as well as other avionic updates. An upgrade to existing JF-17 fleet would give us the rapid number boost in platforms that can match the Rafale in AA, while JF-17B3s are inducted. With MALE/HALE UCAVs and other programs there is simply too much being done and all need $.

Instead of J-10CE wouldn't it would be better use of resources if PAF spent the same money on Viper upgrades for it's F-16 fleet, surely they would start getting impact from wear and tear again soon and form a sizeable part of the fleet which PAF would like to keep flying. Reason why Pakistan hasnt been buying US has been money and not US unwillingness, if PAF is truly willing there is likely hood Pakistan can get a deal under Biden once he is settled in. Since USAF is retiring AMRAAMs for AIM-260, the AIM-120D (160km) is now the standard model up for export now as being offered to Canada and Taiwan. US should be confident we can keep their hardware separate as proven with Blk-25 measures. This would also maintain PAFs diversity in suppliers.

Despite similarity in both aircraft capability J-10CE/JF-17 mix fits PAF needs as it is similar to US F-15/F-16 mix (both can carry same weapons but one has better loadout and range). The J-10CE offers the extra capability needed for a better strike aircraft. But PAF resources are limited and it is pursuing a JF-17 B3 acquisition and NGFA development as well as a fleet that is exposed to wear and tear and needs updates. The JF-17 fleet and early builds in particular are getting overhauls and it is right time to give them a Block-2+ upgrade with the retrofit AESA air cooled radar as well as other avionic updates. An upgrade to existing JF-17 fleet would give us the rapid number boost in platforms that can match the Rafale in AA, while JF-17B3s are inducted. With MALE/HALE UCAVs and other programs there is simply too much being done and all need $.

Instead of J-10CE wouldn't it would be better use of resources if PAF spent the same money on Viper upgrades for it's F-16 fleet, surely they would start getting impact from wear and tear again soon and form a sizeable part of the fleet which PAF would like to keep flying. Reason why Pakistan hasnt been buying US has been money and not US unwillingness, if PAF is truly willing there is likely hood Pakistan can get a deal under Biden once he is settled in. Since USAF is retiring AMRAAMs for AIM-260, the AIM-120D (160km) is now the standard model up for export now as being offered to Canada and Taiwan. US should be confident we can keep their hardware separate as proven with Blk-25 measures. This would also maintain PAFs diversity in suppliers.

Regardless of J-10CE purchase, our F-16s will get the upgrade as soon as we get the green signal from Biden administration.
Once we are done with JF-17 block 3 production, we will start the work on block 4.

Let me preface this by saying I am quite a noob in matters related to warfare.



Isn't it a strategic disadvantage in having 300 jets of the same type albeit a competent jet like the Thunder. The enemy only has one kind of jet to strategize against.

By 2030 we should have 275+ JF-17 but I still think we need another medium weight platform to support F-16s.

 

[ziaulislam]

Despite similarity in both aircraft capability J-10CE/JF-17 mix fits PAF needs as it is similar to US F-15/F-16 mix (both can carry same weapons but one has better loadout and range). The J-10CE offers the extra capability needed for a better strike aircraft. But PAF resources are limited and it is pursuing a JF-17 B3 acquisition and NGFA development as well as a fleet that is exposed to wear and tear and needs updates. The JF-17 fleet and early builds in particular are getting overhauls and it is right time to give them a Block-2+ upgrade with the retrofit AESA air cooled radar as well as other avionic updates. An upgrade to existing JF-17 fleet would give us the rapid number boost in platforms that can match the Rafale in AA, while JF-17B3s are inducted. With MALE/HALE UCAVs and other programs there is simply too much being done and all need $.

Instead of J-10CE wouldn't it would be better use of resources if PAF spent the same money on Viper upgrades for it's F-16 fleet, surely they would start getting impact from wear and tear again soon and form a sizeable part of the fleet which PAF would like to keep flying. Reason why Pakistan hasnt been buying US has been money and not US unwillingness, if PAF is truly willing there is likely hood Pakistan can get a deal under Biden once he is settled in. Since USAF is retiring AMRAAMs for AIM-260, the AIM-120D (160km) is now the standard model up for export now as being offered to Canada and Taiwan. US should be confident we can keep their hardware separate as proven with Blk-25 measures. This would also maintain PAFs diversity in suppliers.

That would be something to consider after 2025

 

[Shabi1]

F-16 upgrades is another topic but point to ponder is if we place a order for J-10CE to counter Rafale today it would take some time for China to build and deliver, they wont come immediately and then there is a integration curve that needs to be considered, can be accelerated but its a reality.

Rather would be cheaper and quicker if PAF opts to upgrade existing JF-17 B1/2 to a Blk-2+ configuration with some Blk-3 aspects like AESA (air-cooled retrofit option) and PL-15 capability along with other avionic tweaks while they are going through overhauls. Wont be surprised if already being done without advertise.

Its not all roses for InAF either, with the recent Tejas order they would be financially marginalized and no progress or initiation on additional Rafales yet. They have just 36 aircraft of 2 sqds, one posted along Pakistan and other to counter China. These aircraft will be stretched as they have to take over strike role as well from their Mirage 2000s.

 

[Marker]

F-16 upgrades is another topic but point to ponder is if we place a order for J-10CE to counter Rafale today it would take some time for China to build and deliver, they wont come immediately and then there is a integration curve that needs to be considered, can be accelerated but its a reality.

Rather would be cheaper and quicker if PAF opts to upgrade existing JF-17 B1/2 to a Blk-2+ configuration with some Blk-3 aspects like AESA (air-cooled retrofit option) and PL-15 capability along with other avionic tweaks while they are going through overhauls. Wont be surprised if already being done without advertise.

Its not all roses for InAF either, with the recent Tejas order they would be financially marginalized and no progress or initiation on additional Rafales yet. They have just 36 aircraft of 2 sqds, one posted along Pakistan and other to counter China. These aircraft will be stretched as they have to take over strike role as well from their Mirage 2000s.

In addition to the upgradation of older JF-17s, PAC and Chinese partners may expedite the JF-17 manufacturing schedule by doubling the yearly production ie around 30+ aircraft. 24 aircraft for PAF use and remaining to meet export demand.

In the meantime, AvRID may be tasked to work on offshoot of JF-17 with two RD-93MAs, semi-stealth aerodynamic design and indigenous avionics package.

Since US AID is an impossible dream, and buying costly F-16 upgradation with what not restrictions not being a viable option, PAF meagre budget can be better utilized in producing indigenous or semi-indigenous JF-17 Block 3s and upgradation of older JF-17 fleet.

 

[FuturePAF]

That would be something an AI based air launched Drone with EW capabilities with two way secure comms that can scan areas, detect air defences and let strike package know of the threat's present at the area. Loitre and play its part in EW for the strike package and even become dispensable at striking high value targets.

possibilities are endless.

That’s actually what the Spear 3 EW is suppose to do; as carried by future Eurofighters.

There is a Chinese missile we could buy and locally produce that is about the same size as the Spear 3 EW. Put good EW and AI into the following missile and launch it in swarms and you have a potent defense against the enemies SAMs and C4ISR.

CS/BBM2 100 kg Chinese Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II) -Zhuhai Air Show 2014

Chinese CS/BBM2 100 kg Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II) displayed at China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition 2014 (Airshow Chi...

chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com

 

[Path-Finder]

That’s actually what the Spear 3 EW is suppose to do; as carried by future Eurofighters.

There is a Chinese missile we could buy and locally produce that is about the same size as the Spear 3 EW. Put good EW and AI into the following missile and launch it in swarms and you have a potent defense against the enemies SAMs and C4ISR.

CS/BBM2 100 kg Chinese Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II) -Zhuhai Air Show 2014

Chinese CS/BBM2 100 kg Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II) displayed at China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition 2014 (Airshow Chi...

chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com

Spear 3 is a smart munition, there is something the yanks are working on which is what I was referring to. you deploy a turbofan powered aerial vehicle that looks like a cruise missile which can be retrieved too after mission is over. I can't remember what it was called.

 

[baqai]

I wish we can produce 50 per year,

we need 2-3 Kamra like installations across the country, i think Bohlari is being developed as another one