JAS-39 Gripen-C VS JF-17 Thunder Block-2.

[SQ8]

Agree, but I was hoping someone had reliable information.

Sadly, due to the nature of the forum and human suspicion otherwise; I cannot claim that. Even though I just showed you a picture of my source.

 

[Pakistanisfirst]

indians are always ve narrow thinking they dont even believe on the facts on the board, Thunder is far better than Gripen in terms of Cost and capabilities and block 3 would be having far better avionics and weapon system which will be enough to compete with any system having a low operational and maintenance cost.

 

[flamer84]

indians are always ve narrow thinking they dont even believe on the facts on the board, Thunder is far better than Gripen in terms of Cost and capabilities and block 3 would be having far better avionics and weapon system which will be enough to compete with any system having a low operational and maintenance cost.

It's better in cost.As for capabilities,they're not even close.....maybe blk 3 could come close to the Gripen C/D.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

It's better in cost.As for capabilities,they're not even close.....maybe blk 3 could come close to the Gripen C/D.

Why sweetheart ? Just because you say so?



Even the Block I is on par with the C/D and Block II exceeding the capabilities offered by the Gripen..

The Block III with AESA,IRST etc will be on par or superior to the NG. Selex is already offering AESA (it also equips the Gripen)... And cockpit design for the Block III. Meanwhile NRIET is offering another AESA marketed to be based on the ELTA AESA.

 

[flamer84]

Why sweetheart ? Just because you say so?


Even the Block I is on par with the C/D and Block II exceeding the capabilities offered by the Gripen..

The Block III with AESA,IRST etc will be on par or superior to the NG.

No sweet cheaks, because only if we go on common sense alone,the JF17 would have been sold like hot pancakes or even inducted by China it it were to be a Gripen C/D with a 25 million $ price tag.You can dream and dellude yourselves all you want but I live in the real world.You also wouldn't be running after used F16's as the C/D comes close to the F16 blk 52.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

No sweet cheaks, because only if we go on common sense alone,the JF17 would have been sold like hot pancakes or even inducted by China it it were to be a Gripen C/D with a 25 million $ price tag.You can dream and dellude yourselves all you want but I live in the real world.

Cutie pie .. Gripen had a 10 year head start from the JF.. How many did it sell during the period of induction compared to the JF?

As for JF selling like hot pancakes .. Cutie pie it's already exported unless you haven't heard..


Also selling like pancakes itsnt a measure of success for a product .. Nor does it work like that when you buy 4th generation fighter jets...


There are several military products like Merkavas and others that have not even exported yet but nobody can call them inferior.

It was offered at 35 million a pop to the Sri Lankans (who are atill evaluating it).

Now back up your moronic claims or walk away like a good flamer.

 

[flamer84]

Cutie pie .. Gripen had a 10 year head start from the JF.. How many did it sell during the period of induction compared to the JF?

As for JF selling like hot pancakes .. Cutie pie it's already exported unless you haven't heard..


Also selling like pancakes itsnt a measure of success for a product .. Nor does it work like that when you buy 4th generation fighter jets...


There are several military products like Merkavas and others that have not even exported yet but nobody can call them inferior.

It was offered at 35 million a pop to the Sri Lankans (who are atill evaluating it).

Now back up your moronic claims or walk away like a good flamer.

You still don't get it.If it truly were close to a C/D,it would be close to blk 52 and with a price tag like that countries like Egypt,Morocco would snatch it.China would induct it.Pakistan wouldn't run after F16 in every corner of the world.You can keep your nationalist dreams to keep you warm at night because this is a Pakistani forum,go to other forums with reputed members and make these claims and you'd be the laugh of the village.

As for the comparison,it was done on this forum ad nauseam,you can live the dream for all i care and I can laugh about it and be on my way.Just like I do now.Have a pleasant day.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Cutie pie .. Gripen had a 10 year head start from the JF.. How many did it sell during the period of induction compared to the JF?

As for JF selling like hot pancakes .. Cutie pie it's already exported unless you haven't heard..


Also selling like pancakes itsnt a measure of success for a product .. Nor does it work like that when you buy 4th generation fighter jets...


There are several military products like Merkavas and others that have not even exported yet but nobody can call them inferior.

It was offered at 35 million a pop to the Sri Lankans (who are atill evaluating it).

Now back up your moronic claims or walk away like a good flamer.

About 300+ Gripen produced and on order.
Still compares well vs JF-17 considering that we only sell to a limited number of countries
out of choice.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

About 300+ Gripen produced and on order.
Still compares well vs JF-17 considering that we only sell to a limited number of countries
out of choice.

Gripen flight/Production = 1987

JF-17 production = 2007

Gripen Production = 300
JF-17 total production = 75+

Gripen First export/lease = 2013

JF-17 first export = 2015

You still don't get it.If it truly were close to a C/D,it would be close to blk 52 and with a price tag like that countries like Egypt,Morocco would snatch it.China would induct it.Pakistan wouldn't run after F16 in every corner of the world.

It is close to the F-16 block 52 but the Block 52+ is superior in many aspects .. The Block 52+ is superior with its long range and bigger payload aswell.. And we need to phase out 200 aircrafts that doesn't mean that we have put JF on the backburner rather we have increased its production and evolution process ...

Countries like Egypt are already using Sino Pak K-8s .. And they chose twin engined Rafales rather than Gripens with Saudi fundings.

JF is exclusively a Pak project -- meanwhile China is producing the medium multirole J-10 rather than light multirole aircraft.

You can keep your nationalist dreams to keep you warm at night because this is a Pakistani forum,go to other forums with reputed members and make these claims and you'd be the laugh of the village.

Please quit it man .. Nobody is making stupid or nonsense claims but posting factual information available or presented by JF project directors,marketing team to international press and potential customers..

As for the comparison,it was done on this forum ad nauseam,you can live the dream for all i care and I can laugh about it and be on my way.Just like I do now.Have a pleasant day.

You are free to prove them wrong .. @Manticore. Has provided all the sources to back up the chart.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Gripen flight/Production = 1987

JF-17 production = 2007

Gripen Production = 300
JF-17 total production = 75+

Gripen First export/lease = 2013

JF-17 first export = 2015


It is close to the F-16 block 52 but the Block 52+ is superior in many aspects .. The Block 52+ is superior with its long range and bigger payload aswell.. And we need to phase out 200 aircrafts that doesn't mean that we have put JF on the backburner rather we have increased its production and evolution process ...

Countries like Egypt are already using Sino Pak K-8s .. And they chose twin engined Rafales rather than Gripens with Saudi fundings.

JF is exclusively a Pak project -- meanwhile China is producing the medium multirole J-10 rather than light multirole aircraft.



Please quit it man .. Nobody is making stupid or nonsense claims but posting factual information available or presented by JF project directors,marketing team to international press and potential customers..



You are free to prove them wrong .. @Manticore. Has provided all the sources to back up the chart.

You have the dates all wrong.

https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_39_Gripen
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/gripen-sales.htm

First the Swedish government ordered the development, resulting in first flight late 1988,
with the first delivery to the Swedish Air Force in 1996.
The difference vs JF-17 is 11 Years.
South Africa ordered their planes in 1999.

Big deal that Egypt bought Rafale, when Sweden does not sell Gripen to the Middle East...

 

[flamer84]

Please quit it man .. Nobody is making stupid or nonsense claims but posting factual information available or presented by JF project directors,marketing team to international press and potential customers..

I think we both know that basic info about aircfrafts don't reveal a full picture.For instance,Brazil is not a fan of the Western block,why wouldn't they join the JF17 blk 3 bandwagon instead of paying like 150 million $ per one Gripen E ?

Egypt has plenty of absolete fighters to replace,if the JF17 was that capable it would be a bargain for them.

Now,if you are under the impression that I'm bellitling Pakistan,you're wrong,even if I don't consider the JF17 in the same league as the Gripen,it's still a tremendous achievement which most countries out there can't reach.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I think we both know that basic info about aircfrafts don't reveal a full picture.For instance,Brazil is not a fan of the Western block,why wouldn't they join the JF17 blk 3 bandwagon instead of paying like 150 million $ per one Gripen E ?

The specifications of both JF-17 block I,Block II & Gripen C are for there to see.

Nobody is comparing block I or II to E/F or NG to begin with.

Egypt has plenty of absolete fighters to replace,if the JF17 was that capable it would be a bargain for them.

So do many other nations doesn't mean they will buy Gripen ? It depends on the doctrine,geography and finance.. Egypt couldn't buy anything -- even the rafale and other purchases are being funded by Saudi petro dollar.

Now,if you are under the impression that I'm bellitling Pakistan,you're wrong,even if I don't consider the JF17 in the same league as the Gripen,it's still a tremendous achievement which most countries out there can't reach.

Sounds like that way... And none of us are belittling Gripen .. It's a helluva aircraft .. A benchmark for our JF project and it seems we have achieved it with older blocks wrt Gripem c ..

 

[ghazi768]

You have the dates all wrong.

https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_39_Gripen
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/gripen-sales.htm

First the Swedish government ordered the development, resulting in first flight late 1988,
with the first delivery to the Swedish Air Force in 1996.
The difference vs JF-17 is 11 Years.
South Africa ordered their planes in 1999.

Big deal that Egypt bought Rafale, when Sweden does not sell Gripen to the Middle East...

Your argument of trying to compare jet fighters based on number of sales orders is plainly stupid.

You are also comparing sales of JF-17 with Rafale or Gripen which had a 10-15 years head start on Jf-17.

And South Africans are ones with their whole Gripen fleet grounded because of higher costs involved in keeping it afloat which they are not ready for the moment.

I think we both know that basic info about aircfrafts don't reveal a full picture.For instance,Brazil is not a fan of the Western block,why wouldn't they join the JF17 blk 3 bandwagon instead of paying like 150 million $ per one Gripen E ?

Egypt has plenty of absolete fighters to replace,if the JF17 was that capable it would be a bargain for them.

Now,if you are under the impression that I'm bellitling Pakistan,you're wrong,even if I don't consider the JF17 in the same league as the Gripen,it's still a tremendous achievement which most countries out there can't reach.

Again a country choosing A or B fighter does not mean that either one of them is below other. Every one has their own set of requirements and even internal interests as well. Brazil decided to induct Gripen Ng and rejected other contenders such as Su-35.

Who knows Egypt may actually replace some of its fighters with JF-17 in future, that option is still open.

Jf-17 I think is having great success, it is getting inducted in PAF at fast pace and has couple of orders from other countries to fulfil as well and interest by more potential customers is very positive. But as the case is with jet fighter sales or procurement it is a complicated and long process with many if and buts. Production lines are finely tuned operations to keep them humming for a planned amount of years, Jf-17's will keep on working at-least until 2025 and it is also expanding in production per year because of more confirmed orders by other countries as well as few expected ones in future.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The specifications of both JF-17 block I,Block II & Gripen C are for there to see.

Nobody is comparing block I or II to E/F or NG to begin with.



So do many other nations doesn't mean they will buy Gripen ? It depends on the doctrine,geography and finance.. Egypt couldn't buy anything -- even the rafale and other purchases are being funded by Saudi petro dollar.



Sounds like that way... And none of us are belittling Gripen .. It's a helluva aircraft .. A benchmark for our JF project and it seems we have achieved it with older blocks wrt Gripem c ..

The Devil is in the details.
There is a lot this comparision does not bring up.
How advanced is the data link of the JF-17.
That is one of the key parameters to win an engagement.

Gripen does not need an AWACS, since one of the aircraft can act like one,
providing data to up to three more Gripen, that fly with radar turned off.
The low RCS of Gripen (a lot lower than JF-17) will allow the other Gripen to come close
without beeing detected, let go of a Meteor, turn away and let the AWACS Gripen control the missile.

What will happen in a dogfight?
No data about which plane can outmanouvre the other.
Gripen consistently do well here in Red Flag and similar exercises.
What has the JF-17 to show?

When comparing radars, is the Gripen C, Mk4 PS05/E considered?
This increases the detection range by one and a half.
A target which could be detected at 120 km by the Mk3, can be detected at 300Km by the Mk4.
Can detect fairly stealthy targets as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

No sweet cheaks, because only if we go on common sense alone,the JF17 would have been sold like hot pancakes or even inducted by China it it were to be a Gripen C/D with a 25 million $ price tag.You can dream and dellude yourselves all you want but I live in the real world.You also wouldn't be running after used F16's as the C/D comes close to the F16 blk 52.

Hi,

Your " common sense " comment is bad----. It took 15 years for one of the finest aircraft the Rafale to get its first customer----and for pakistan / china it is too soon to get a customer for the aircraft.

The aircraft is technically not ready for sale---because it does not have a 2 seater as of now----secondly available tier 1 avionics package have not come out yet.

So---once that happens in 2 years time---that is when the count would start.