JAS-39 Gripen-C VS JF-17 Thunder Block-2.

[cerberus]

I'd say it has more to do with Gripen's superior Digital Fly by Electrical Wire Control System than its engine.

Sir Still Have Reservation the Cutting you posted Has Word
"It is Believed That Engine Produced 22000 Lbf thrust"
It Means the Statement itself is Contradictory To the Article

Well other Public Sources We have the Engine thrust of JF-17 we get is 84.6 KN or (19,000 lbf)

 

[asia2000]

Sir Still Have Reservation the Cutting you posted Has Word
"It is Believed That Engine Produced 22000 Lbf thrust"
It Means the Statement itself is Contradictory To the Article

Well other Public Sources We have the Engine thrust of JF-17 we get is 84.6 KN or (19,000 lbf)

The T/W ratio for RD93 should be close to 7.9 or 8. So 84.6 KN seems more reasonable. If the thrust is 22000 lbf, the T/W will exceed 9, which is too high. F110 T/W ratio is 7.9 only.

 

[KingRaj]

RD-33



JF-17 test Pilot, Wing Commander Ronald Felix.

View attachment 290516

The article is hilariously wrong.

AVIC VP himself said that JF-17 engine is 19000lbf class in June 2015

Li Yuhai, an executive vice president with the Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC), told IHS Jane's at the Paris Airshow that a new Chinese turbofan for the J-17 has been "under testing," has completed "lab tests", and that "flight testing is in progress". He also said that the new engine would have a thrust slightly greater than the 8.7-ton thrust of the JF-17's current Klimov RD-93 turbofan.

http://www.janes.com/article/52308/...ghter-flying-with-indigenous-chinese-turbofan

PAC also mentions it is a 19000lbf engine and everyone knows there has been no change in engine of JF-17 BLK1 and BLK2.
http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

More importantly Russia has so far not developed any variant of RD-33/RD-93 in 22000lbf class.

What is the thrust of RD93 on Mig29k?

MiG-29K uses RD-33MK engines which is the highest thrust variant of RD-33 family(including RD-93).

 

[nomi007]

jf-17 needs stealth engine nozzle

 

[Burhan Wani]

@MaarKhoor I think fire control radar should be replaced by AESA radar, what do you think?

 

[The Eagle]

We need to improve its payload, its acceleration, thrust to weight ratio and rate of climb.

Agreed and i hope better weightless composites and material will much affect in sooner block which will help with current RD-93 engine. So also a better engine in future could be expected like China is improving her WS-10 engine and it is getting matured and could be an option by the time of JFT Block-III. My opinion.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@MaarKhoor I think fire control radar should be replaced by AESA radar, what do you think?

I can't say about future upgrades but one thing we should know that JF-17 project conceived to develop low budget medium role defense fighter to replace large number of old 3rd Gen fighters like Mirage iii, V and F-7, if we put all the latest equipment the main idea behind low cast will die currently JF-17 30mil per unit we can't afford 40 + fighter. If PAF want to spend more money they definitely go for F-16 newer versions and now which they are looking for.

Some time I think instead of JF-17 we should J.V with China for J-10 fighter but for sure air force officials know better then me.
@MastanKhan
Sir what you think about that.

 

[Khafee]

@Horus Very Interesting thread. Good to see Indians falling over themselves talking BS as usual, and making a fool of themselves!!!

@MastanKhan Having seen the JF-17 Blk1, up close and personal, I can tell you Sir, it is nothing short of impressive. It gives the Gripen C/D quite a run for it's money.

IF I were to choose between the two I'd go for the JF-17.

 

[Spectre]

The article is hilariously wrong.

AVIC VP himself said that JF-17 engine is 19000lbf class in June 2015


http://www.janes.com/article/52308/...ghter-flying-with-indigenous-chinese-turbofan

PAC also mentions it is a 19000lbf engine and everyone knows there has been no change in engine of JF-17 BLK1 and BLK2.
http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

More importantly Russia has so far not developed any variant of RD-33/RD-93 in 22000lbf class.


MiG-29K uses RD-33MK engines which is the highest thrust variant of RD-33 family(including RD-93).

Would be nice to have this cleared up as 22,000 lbf clearly gives JF-17 a comparative edge among the lower cost multi role Jets but if it carries the 19,000 lbf engine then it comes across as well suited for Pakistan but average when compared to competition

@Oscar?

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistan produces up to 65%, by the time Block-3 hits the assembly line it will be 88%.

Does Pakistan produce everything required for the JF-17?

--------------------------

Additionally, as for the charts, last i read Gripen had a pretty sophisticated data link ability, infact one of the main selling points of the aircraft, over here only rudimentary links to AWACS that JF-17 is able to do also are mentioned.
Iirc Gripen's link enables several planes to talk to each other, share info, has some CAS function to link with troops on the ground etc etc....none of this is mentioned.

Also, i get the impression "LERX" was included just to score a "yes" for JF-17, as it makes no sense to include it (and drop "canards" category as equivalent), as it's a design feature best known from the quite unimpressive F/A-18.

 

[Shabi1]

The reason why max JF-17 engine thrust is different on different sources is because it can be tuned with increased thrust having a trade off of engine life. JF-17 has been incrementally being improved and it is likely that engines are now being used at their max optimal ranges. RD-93MA is also in the pipline with enhanced thrust along with WS-13A.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_RD-33#RD-93
"A variant used to power the JF-17 (FC-1). According to JF-17.com "The most significant difference being the repositioning of the gearbox along the bottom of the engine casing." The Klimov poster at Zhuhai 2010 airshow gave the thrust range of the engine to be 79 kN Dry to 98 kN Wet.[3] This was designed specifically for FC-1 with increased thrust and relocated gearbox compared to base RD-33's. Although the increase of thrust decreased the service life of RD-93 to 2200 hours from RD-33's 4000 hours. According to Air Commodore Mehmood engines are solid and reliable: “We’ve flown 7,000 hours with the engine and we haven’t had any problems”, he said"

 

[Thorough Pro]

@ Horus you mentioned LERX but did not mention Canards for Grippen, analysis should not be biased

A better way to do comparative analysis is the break it apart in several components such as
Airframe (physical dimensions, weights, load capacity, range LERX, Canards, etc.)
Data net working
offensive electronics
Defensive electronics
Roles & Armaments
A2A
A2G
A2S

etc. etc.

 

[C130]

We need speed, our combat radius though is massive compared to other jets.

need clarity on the combat radius. what loadout is this factoring in?? I would guess multiple fuel tanks and hi-hi-hi or hi-low-hi attack

 

[Tipu7]

Only restriction which Jf17 has is money.... it is meant to be a cheap aircraft.... otherwise there are plenty of options available to make it even much better if money is abundant.

Use of fully digital fly by wire system, better engine, use of composite airframe will greatly enhance the capabilities of aircrafts...... but it need big money...... I hope we will not stop at blk 3 and go further to blk 4 and so on..... by indicting better avionics, better engine, increased use of composite parts in airframe to make it a truly 4+ or even 4++ generation aircraft.........

@ Horus you mentioned LERX but did not mention Canards for Grippen, analysis should not be biased

A better way to do comparative analysis is the break it apart in several components such as
Airframe (physical dimensions, weights, load capacity, range LERX, Canards, etc.)
Data net working
offensive electronics
Defensive electronics
Roles & Armaments
A2A
A2G
A2S

etc. etc.

What is LERX......???

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

That;s Technical Miracle Sir If its True
Gripen with Volvo RM-12 Engine Which Thrust of 80.5 KN Wet can go up to Mach 2 and Pull Up +9g

Which JF-17 Cannot Not with RD-93 with 98 KN Wet Limited to 1.8 and 8g

How ???

I'd say it has more to do with Gripen's superior Digital Fly by Electrical Wire Control System than its engine.

There is a difference of wing design. JAS Gripen is a Delta design hence it requires a higher speed and lift increases.