Japan seeks defence ties with Asean

[lcloo]

Military alliance with Japanese? I am sure 100% Malaysia and Singapore will not join in. The intention of Abe is clear, i.e. to encircle China with alliance from India and South East Asia.

With exception of Vietnam and Phillipines, no ASEAN nations want to be part of this stupid plan. We always stay neutral, that is why ASEAN was formed.

 

[Lure]

Well the World now sees what Obama meant by "Asia pivot".

United States wants to increase it's influence in the region to control (or somewhat contain) the economical and technological development of China. Of course since China doesn't try to export it's regime directly and support revolutions in other countries to form an area of influence (which was a cold war strategy used by USSR) it's so hard to create a cold war type of conflict with China. China very wisely doesn't try to change other countries' regime but by using soft power like good economic relations, arms deals if demanded, even military technology transfers etc. does increase it's influence and tries to form solid friendships.

It would be not naive to believe that there are dozens of businessmen in ASEAN who has investments in China or importing Chinese products and selling in their own nation or exporting their products to China or has any sort of economical relation with it which forms an elite group of lobby who is very very sensitive about the relations with the Chinese government. This is what actually happens in the West especially in the former Warsaw pact, recent EU countries where still there are some percentage of population who misses the Soviet times. But of course the noun is different, it's US/Western EU instead of China.

Now of course you can change this trend either by forming the same economical relations with ASEAN as China does and actually "beat" it, which is not very possible for US since China has a tremendous advantage in international trade which is very hard to fight. Besides I don't think people in ASEAN would like to be a proxy of a China-US domination challange which could lead to unpredictable inconsistencies.

So what we need is a plan to increase our influence in ASEAN, without being seen on the public, rather being the one behind curtains. First we need a proxy. Second we need that proxy to have sour relations with China. Third we need a proxy that is capable enough to sustain frictions with China without demanding much US help (we want to behind the curtains remember?). There is one nation that fits this description. Japan. Now let's see what problems that Japan might have with China. Here it is. Bunch of rocks that no one cares except for these two. Remember what did Deng Xiaoping said, "Our generation is not wise enough to solve this problem, we should leave this matter to next generations.". Now let's prove that he was wrong, and prove that we can actually manuplate the next generations easier than them.

Escalating tension between Japan and China can actually help us. People in ASEAN will believe that if China can actually "beat" Japan in this matter than it could "beat" any of them in any conflict and since they have also their own territorial disputes with China, it would be better for them to form close relations with Japan to increase their resistance. Here you are an Anti-China pact leaded by Japan, no one even feels our presence in the issue and we got what we want.

And btw, don't get shocked if you see some American military bases in Vietnam in two decades if this trend continues.

 

[NiceGuy]

And btw, don't get shocked if you see some American military bases in Vietnam in two decades if this trend continues.

Right, we can allow USSR to have base in VietNam and let her us Tu-95 bomber to threaten everyone before 1990, so we can allow US to have base in VIetNam too. everyone are welcome to be our friend .

Love to see their B-2 bomber in VN to threaten to China once day, and it will be much more fun if we allow both Russia-US to have base in VietNAm

 

[Soryu]

Military alliance with Japanese? I am sure 100% Malaysia and Singapore will not join in. The intention of Abe is clear, i.e. to encircle China with alliance from India and South East Asia.

With exception of Vietnam and Phillipines, no ASEAN nations want to be part of this stupid plan. We always stay neutral, that is why ASEAN was formed.

Well the World now sees what Obama meant by "Asia pivot".

And btw, don't get shocked if you see some American military bases in Vietnam in two decades if this trend continues.

LOL: Why are you think that!? -
I sure each in everyone of you never know what is current "Vietnam's forgein policy" from 1991.
Don't know if this plan is stupid, but Singapore let American navy ship staying in Changi, .

 

[Lure]

LOL: Why are you think that!? -
I sure each in everyone of you never know what is current "Vietnam's forgein policy" from 1991.
Don't know if this plan is stupid, but Singapore let American navy ship staying in Changi, .

Well if we are talking about US-Vietnam relations, nothing had changed pretty much. Even immediately after the war Vietnam was calling for normalisation of ties with the US. The normalization formally occured in Clinton era in 1995, not because of Vietnam, but because of US preconditions (the long talked MIA issue remember?). Actually Vietnam was for long trying to seek a balance policy between USSR and US. Today it's aims are very similar. But one should remember that the World is not that much of a bipolar anymore. US is both economically and militarily dominating. Thus if you want to become allies with him, even if you seek a balance policy, US political power will certainly make you do what it wants you to do. And they would certainly appreciate a military base in Vietnam which would make China very very angry

 

[NiceGuy]

Well if we are talking about US-Vietnam relations, nothing had changed pretty much. Even immediately after the war Vietnam was calling for normalisation of ties with the US. The normalization formally occured in Clinton era in 1995, not because of Vietnam, but because of US preconditions (the long talked MIA issue remember?). Actually Vietnam was for long trying to seek a balance policy between USSR and US. Today it's aims are very similar. But one should remember that the World is not that much of a bipolar anymore. US is both economically and militarily dominating. Thus if you want to become allies with him, even if you seek a balance policy, US political power will certainly make you do what it wants you to do. And they would certainly appreciate a military base in Vietnam which would make China very very angry

Good,love to see China get angry again.we will kick theif @$$ again like in 1979 and Tienanmen revolt will happen in China again after defeated by VN

 

[john.mccainn]

Good,love to see China get angry again.we will kick theif @$$ again like in 1979 and Tienanmen revolt will happen in China again after defeated by VN

1.get out take a fresh air ( don't smoke that weeds again )
2.find a girl friends
3.get married
4.have a children
5.get old
6.and die pls

 

[Viet]

Well the World now sees what Obama meant by "Asia pivot".
...
And btw, don't get shocked if you see some American military bases in Vietnam in two decades if this trend continues.

LOL Not too bad for a freshman, a long analysis on the psyche of some nations in the region. But I am afraid your analysis does not reflect the reality.

As for VN, it is too early for the US to have a permanent base, but one should know the Marines are coming this year to Vietnam.

Head of US marines says training missions with Vietnam a possibility | South China Morning Post

 

[Soryu]

Well if we are talking about US-Vietnam relations, nothing had changed pretty much. Even immediately after the war Vietnam was calling for normalisation of ties with the US. The normalization formally occured in Clinton era in 1995, not because of Vietnam, but because of US preconditions (the long talked MIA issue remember?). Actually Vietnam was for long trying to seek a balance policy between USSR and US. Today it's aims are very similar. But one should remember that the World is not that much of a bipolar anymore. US is both economically and militarily dominating. Thus if you want to become allies with him, even if you seek a balance policy, US political power will certainly make you do what it wants you to do. And they would certainly appreciate a military base in Vietnam which would make China very very angry

You forgot and mistake. Vietnam want normalisation of ties with the US because China, not because USSR. If US pick up that proposal from Vietnam, that's mean US don't support China attack Vietnam's border. But Vietnam's proposal have some point too hight for US accept at that time, at the end, they pick China, and... like you know, history.

 

[Lure]

You forgot and mistake. Vietnam want normalisation of ties with the US because China, not because USSR. If US pick up that proposal from Vietnam, that's mean US don't support China attack Vietnam's border. But Vietnam's proposal have some point too hight for US accept at that time, at the end, they pick China, and... like you know, history.

You got me wrong. What I was referring that Vietnamese Communist regime's main ally was USSR. But Vietnam wanted raise it's stakes and tried to seek a balance policy between USSR and USA. I didn't mention it's reason, I have just mentioned the fact. Of course the border problems and issues with Cambodia was making Hanoi's relations with Beijing very complicated. Vietnam wanted stronger allies when China wanted to "teach Vietnam a lesson". Vietnam knew this was coming and also knew that USSR has just nothing to do to stop it. That's why when China invaded Vietnam, some large portion of it's forces was waiting on it's northern border. Just in case you know. However if USA with USSR supported Vietnam at those days, it would definitely be a harder decision for Beijing to invade Vietnam. But that's the history. Deng Xiaoping said "he wanted to spank the kid, since the kid is not listening" and Washington said go ahead.

 

[jhungary]

Two thing for sure.

1.) US will not establish permanent base in Vietnam. That's the protocol we worked on since 1945, we will not station troop in country that are an allied to the other side (Russia or China). Unless Vietnam Drop Russia as a defence partner and start buying American Equipment, then we can talk about stationing troop in Vietnam. Joint Training is okay, but far from even a temperory rotation.

2.) If Vietnam want US as a defence partner, US will try to sway Vietnam to their camp and use it to balance out China. That will put Vietnam, yet still neutral today, into a direct competition to China, like Japan and South Korea. By then, vietnam cannot ask the US to do anything, but US will FORCE Vietnam to do anything they subject. This is not a good relation to vietnam if such thigns do go ahead.

Set aside all factor, we also do not have spare troop to station in Vietnam anyway, not for a long run or a short run. Our miltiarty have been stretched very thin nover there couple of years.

In US term, we prepared to accept Asia is Chinese backyard, we will just be a present there. That is fro mday one China rise as a regional power. But that does not mean we should all pack up and go home. We need to maintain our present in Asia for the sake f the traderoute to Indian Ocean and South to the South Pacific. If China can successfully sway Australia into their camp (I am not saying this would happen) We will probably just keep troop in Japan and South Korea and exert our protective blanket down only to Taiwan Strait

That is the current situation as i see it. It's all about check and balance.

 

[NiceGuy]

Two thing for sure.

1.) US will not establish permanent base in Vietnam. That's the protocol we worked on since 1945, we will not station troop in country that are an allied to the other side (Russia or China). Unless Vietnam Drop Russia as a defence partner and start buying American Equipment, then we can talk about stationing troop in Vietnam. Joint Training is okay, but far from even a temperory rotation.

If you don't try to have base in VietNam, then with base in Cam Ranh, Russia will cut off ur oil-food supply to Guam, your lonely Guam will die and Russia will take control of it.

btw: US will fall like Mongol after defeated by VietNam and after 100 years ruling the world, who cares if u have base in VN or not

2.) If Vietnam want US as a defence partner, US will try to sway Vietnam to their camp and use it to balance out China. That will put Vietnam, yet still neutral today, into a direct competition to China, like Japan and South Korea. By then, vietnam cannot ask the US to do anything, but US will FORCE Vietnam to do anything they subject. This is not a good relation to vietnam if such thigns do go ahead.

Can u force us to do what u want when ur Guam fall ?? or that time, we will force u to do what we Want ??

 

[faithfulguy]

If you don't try to have base in VietNam, then with base in Cam Ranh, Russia will cut off ur oil-food supply to Guam, your lonely Guam will die and Russia will take control of it.

btw: US will fall like Mongol after defeated by VietNam and after 100 years ruling the world, who cares if u have base in VN or not

Can u force us to do what u want when ur Guam fall ?? or that time, we will force u to do what we Want ??

So many people have been predicting the fall of America. and that prediction has all failed. But your predictions keep us in our toes and do better.

As for Vietnam, if the marines do station there, than the major affect would be the number of mail order brides available for Taiwan and HK as many women have the alternative of working with the marines.

 

[john.mccainn]

If you don't try to have base in VietNam, then with base in Cam Ranh, Russia will cut off ur oil-food supply to Guam, your lonely Guam will die.

btw: US will fall like Mongol after 100 years ruling the world, who cares if u have base in VN or not

in another time you talked and praised US ,how great she is ,thinking about she will put a base in vietnam and we will kicking china @@S and we together will rule an entire galaxy including banana land.
And then one guy stated about the US wont and never put any of her bases in a country that had defence partner with russian such as vietnam then you starting bashing it.
cmon get real mr.niceguy
i really excited to see what you'll though when russian ditch you like a trash.

and for mr.jhungary
what protocol you talking about ?
ooh this one protocol = rules on paper ?

 

[NiceGuy]

So many people have been predicting the fall of America. and that prediction has all failed. But your predictions keep us in our toes and do better.

As for Vietnam, if the marines do station there, than the major affect would be the number of mail order brides available for Taiwan and HK as many women have the alternative of working with the marines.

That prediction has all failed coz it comes from the people who their countries can not defeat US and Mongol empire like VietNam.

Okay, we're poor, our women have right to find the better ones, even China has same problem wt us. As u know: "Chinese girls is the largest number in S.K foreign brides". when our power is strong enough, then we will cut off the oil route to HK-TW and happy to see you guys starving like North Korea .

Keep barking and enjoy before falling forever