Japan, and war with the developed world

[Genesis]

Be honest, can war still be instigated against any developed nation? The answer is no. There are obvious reasons, but I will be focusing on the economic, political, military, as well as the brutally honest side of things.

The developed world are called that for a reason, and the main point is they control the world of economics, being allies with each other and having multiple treaties with each other means no nation as of yet can challenge them. China may look big, but relative to G6, we are but a fraction of what they are combined, or what the Us or EU is alone.

Taking the war to them would mean economic sanctions, and even if it doesn't come to that, trade would be greatly disrupted, and no developing nation can separate from the developed world and land softly.

Politically, the G6 nations still control all of the international institutions and a declaration on one, is essentially a declaration on all. The other important point is the developed nations all share a common ideology and has the resources available to promote human rights rather than just preach it. This makes any nation declaring on them, strong or weak, seem evil, this will be expanded on later.

Militarily, the US is easily the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen, and Japan + EU are powers in their own right. While Japan may still have a peaceful constitution, that constitution clearly has not reached their navy, as they boast, easily, a top 5 navy in the world, what they lack in air force and ground force are easily made up by the American presence in Korea and Japan.

The G6's combined military spending hovers around a trillion dollars a year and can dwarf any nation that even thinks of matching them.

Lastly we get to the part where no one wants to talk about, the developed world has people that are just worth more. They have a voice. Their media dominates the global narrative and their reputation makes sure their words are taken at face value by most uninterested viewers, and hard to argue, by the hardcore followers.

The hurricane Katrina, Japanese nuclear disaster, French shooting, and more are terrible events, but hardly the worst that have happened that year, or even that week in the world. Yet, nobody knows or cares about the bloody battles that goes on in the rest of the world, be it civil wars, terrorism, or war on drugs.

So the question remains, can any nation hope to declare on a developed nation today? The Americans went into Iraq with lies, but the idea of freedom, and democracy as well as prosperity appeal to the masses, and thus, condemned, America more or less still faces little backlash over its action, while on the other side of the pond, China faces severe backlash, and even given the Nazi tag, over disputed territories and no military actions of any kind.

Bottom line, China and Japan will not go to war, it doesn't matter if Japan has 0 or 20 carrier groups.

 

[Steve781]

Are you telling me nobody could attack Malta or Singapore?

 

[Genesis]

Are you telling me nobody could attack Malta or Singapore?

Essentially yes, but more importantly, I'm talking about the G6 members. Tell me, who in this world, would attack Singapore or Malta? Who could get away with attacking Singapore or Malta? Would the US and NATO not lay the smackdown on anybody who even thinks about it.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

There’s no denying the Japanese paved the way for the rise of Asia，but now they just want to put an end to it by doing Uncle Sam's dirty work of containing China.

Sad story.

 

[Aepsilons]

Be honest, can war still be instigated against any developed nation? The answer is no. There are obvious reasons, but I will be focusing on the economic, political, military, as well as the brutally honest side of things.

The developed world are called that for a reason, and the main point is they control the world of economics, being allies with each other and having multiple treaties with each other means no nation as of yet can challenge them. China may look big, but relative to G6, we are but a fraction of what they are combined, or what the Us or EU is alone.

Taking the war to them would mean economic sanctions, and even if it doesn't come to that, trade would be greatly disrupted, and no developing nation can separate from the developed world and land softly.

Politically, the G6 nations still control all of the international institutions and a declaration on one, is essentially a declaration on all. The other important point is the developed nations all share a common ideology and has the resources available to promote human rights rather than just preach it. This makes any nation declaring on them, strong or weak, seem evil, this will be expanded on later.

Militarily, the US is easily the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen, and Japan + EU are powers in their own right. While Japan may still have a peaceful constitution, that constitution clearly has not reached their navy, as they boast, easily, a top 5 navy in the world, what they lack in air force and ground force are easily made up by the American presence in Korea and Japan.

The G6's combined military spending hovers around a trillion dollars a year and can dwarf any nation that even thinks of matching them.

Lastly we get to the part where no one wants to talk about, the developed world has people that are just worth more. They have a voice. Their media dominates the global narrative and their reputation makes sure their words are taken at face value by most uninterested viewers, and hard to argue, by the hardcore followers.

The hurricane Katrina, Japanese nuclear disaster, French shooting, and more are terrible events, but hardly the worst that have happened that year, or even that week in the world. Yet, nobody knows or cares about the bloody battles that goes on in the rest of the world, be it civil wars, terrorism, or war on drugs.

So the question remains, can any nation hope to declare on a developed nation today? The Americans went into Iraq with lies, but the idea of freedom, and democracy as well as prosperity appeal to the masses, and thus, condemned, America more or less still faces little backlash over its action, while on the other side of the pond, China faces severe backlash, and even given the Nazi tag, over disputed territories and no military actions of any kind.

Bottom line, China and Japan will not go to war, it doesn't matter if Japan has 0 or 20 carrier groups.

I commend you @Genesis on your broad minded analysis of the situation affecting our respective neighborhood. As you know, through our previous discussions regarding Sino-Japanese detente since the formal normalization of times in 1978, Japan and China have come a long way. Both countries have cooperated with each other on parameters too many to name , but for the readers who have little understanding of the entente between Japan and China in recent years, we've collaborated in nuclear energy research, aerospace, naval intelligence, environmental protection, environmental policies, corporate law, intellectual property rights, maritime research, emergency response policies and guidelines, disaster response, civil rights policies, energy research, ship building, civil engineering, just to list a brief example of the Japanese-Chinese collaborative enterprise.

Now, be that as it may, that does not polish over some existing differences in the Japanese and Chinese view of how the region is to operate , namely our disagreements in maritime and air identification zones in the East Sea / Sea of Japan , as well as our understanding of the definition of Freedom of Navigation. This can be seen in our differing policies regarding the South China Seas and concurrently addressing the Japanese normalization with Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam, two of the large claimants in the South China Sea.

Japan, like China, is a maritime power, and one that is dependent on trade with our trading partners. Like China, Japan would wish that major trade routes should refrain from militarization and evade in deployment of military vessels that would cultivate an environment of debasement and increased tension. This is why Japan is working with the United States, Australia, as well as our relevant partners in Southeast Asia to embrace a collectivistic platform of joint patrol and joint stabilization processes. Through self-sustaining policies that encourages regional development and regional trade, Japan has encouraged many of our partners such as Vietnam and the Philippines to utilize Coast Guard vessels rather than Military Ships , as a way to reduce military tension. In fact, @Genesis , if you actually analyze Japanese discourse with Vietnam and the Philippines, we have provided them with Coast Guard Vessels , encouraged coast guard interdiction, measures and procedures that are aimed to reduce conflict. In light of this, the Chinese side could decipher the Japanese discourse with ASEAN as a stabilizing force.

As for the issue of war between the Great Powers, I don't think anyone in his or her right mind would wish for or dream of war. Military conflict is the thesis of a zero sum mentality and is a result of failure in diplomatic calculus. Considering that both Japan and China are , naturally, partners and would like to continue this development in not only Northeast Asia, but our shared interests in Southeast Asia , then there will be no lack of zeal to maintain diplomatic efforts.

The Japanese Interests follows a necessary deployment of our interests as we normalize our military power and responsibilities in congruence with our economic and political developments in the region and beyond. This is rather similar to China's own decision to deploy its interests (economic, political, military) in areas outside the traditional Chinese Sphere, ergo, in Sudan, in Djibouti, in Cyprus et al. As we all aim to enhance our interests and our strategic clout, we all will find ourselves contending with one another, cooperating with one another (yes at the same time) in areas that may not necessarily be in Northeast Asia.

We live in truly exciting times. To that, I shall raise my cup to you and others who share the same broad analysis as I.




Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

There’s no denying the Japanese paved the way for the rise of Asia，but now they just want to put an end to it by doing Uncle Sam's dirty work of containing China.

Sad story.

Hi,

A constructive advice for you, do expand your visage. Study more.



Xie Xie

Are you telling me nobody could attack Malta or Singapore?

Theoretically, sure, both Malta and Singapore can be taken through strategic calculus. But the underlying disposition of maintaining control despite the eventual storm to retake from the international body is the issue that @Genesis is alluding to. In modern times, two instances serve as a reminder of this very issue:

a) Iraqi invasion of Kuwait

b) Argentinian invasion of the Falkland Islands


In both cases, there was inherent short term success of the offending power , Iraq and Argentina, respectively. However, the international body's reaction was not only swift but rather resolute. In the end, Argentina's Navy was pulverized, and the Argentine Military Dictatorship collapsed in lieu of British + Allied victory. Kuwaiti occupation led to the UN-led invasion to expunge Iraq from Kuwait, leading to the eradication of Iraqi armored divisions, collapse and termination of American-Iraqi military alliance, and led to the ultimate annihilation of Iraq as a military power in the region.


In the end, such climactic "fall from grace" was a result of taking minor assets, the Falkland Islands and Kuwait, respectively.


The same would apply in context to the Singaporean and Maltese debate.




Regards,

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Hi,

A constructive advice for you, do expand your visage. Study more.

LOL looks like I touched a nerve

It's fine，no hard feelings

and what does “expand your visage” mean？all I get from dic is “enlarge your face”

 

[Aepsilons]

LOL looks like I touched a nerve

It's fine，no hard feelings

and what does “expand your visage” mean？all I get from dic is “enlarge your face”

Expand your perception, view of the world, situational awareness.

Bottom line, China and Japan will not go to war, it doesn't matter if Japan has 0 or 20 carrier groups.

I would like to hope and believe that Japan and China exhausted their appetite for conflict with each other in the last great war. Let us keep that chapter in our nations' histories closed.

There is so much to be had in expanding interest through peaceful and lawful means.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Expand your perception, view of the world, situational awareness.

Ok I‘ll do that，and you...try not to use invented words next time

Arigatou

 

[kbd-raaf]

Ok I‘ll do that，and you...try not to use invented words next time

I doubt that @Nihonjin1051 was around in the 15th century when that word was invented.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

I doubt that @Nihonjin1051 was around in the 15th century when that word was invented.

Thanks. Good to know people already invented face enlargement in 15th century

 

[Aepsilons]

I doubt that @Nihonjin1051 was around in the 15th century when that word was invented.

ha ha ha ha, who knows i might be the reincarnated soul of The Lord Nobunaga Oda.

back to the topic. lol.

 

[70U63]

Developed Nations: War must happen (if not who is going to fund our arm industry ), and the war will happen to those misbehave developing or third world country...

 

[Aepsilons]

Developed Nations: War must happen (if not who is going to fund our arm industry ), and the war will happen to those misbehave developing or third world country...

Be more specific, please.

 

[Genesis]

I commend you @Genesis on your broad minded analysis of the situation affecting our respective neighborhood. As you know, through our previous discussions regarding Sino-Japanese detente since the formal normalization of times in 1978, Japan and China have come a long way. Both countries have cooperated with each other on parameters too many to name , but for the readers who have little understanding of the entente between Japan and China in recent years, we've collaborated in nuclear energy research, aerospace, naval intelligence, environmental protection, environmental policies, corporate law, intellectual property rights, maritime research, emergency response policies and guidelines, disaster response, civil rights policies, energy research, ship building, civil engineering, just to list a brief example of the Japanese-Chinese collaborative enterprise.

Now, be that as it may, that does not polish over some existing differences in the Japanese and Chinese view of how the region is to operate , namely our disagreements in maritime and air identification zones in the East Sea / Sea of Japan , as well as our understanding of the definition of Freedom of Navigation. This can be seen in our differing policies regarding the South China Seas and concurrently addressing the Japanese normalization with Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam, two of the large claimants in the South China Sea.

Japan, like China, is a maritime power, and one that is dependent on trade with our trading partners. Like China, Japan would wish that major trade routes should refrain from militarization and evade in deployment of military vessels that would cultivate an environment of debasement and increased tension. This is why Japan is working with the United States, Australia, as well as our relevant partners in Southeast Asia to embrace a collectivistic platform of joint patrol and joint stabilization processes. Through self-sustaining policies that encourages regional development and regional trade, Japan has encouraged many of our partners such as Vietnam and the Philippines to utilize Coast Guard vessels rather than Military Ships , as a way to reduce military tension. In fact, @Genesis , if you actually analyze Japanese discourse with Vietnam and the Philippines, we have provided them with Coast Guard Vessels , encouraged coast guard interdiction, measures and procedures that are aimed to reduce conflict. In light of this, the Chinese side could decipher the Japanese discourse with ASEAN as a stabilizing force.

As for the issue of war between the Great Powers, I don't think anyone in his or her right mind would wish for or dream of war. Military conflict is the thesis of a zero sum mentality and is a result of failure in diplomatic calculus. Considering that both Japan and China are , naturally, partners and would like to continue this development in not only Northeast Asia, but our shared interests in Southeast Asia , then there will be no lack of zeal to maintain diplomatic efforts.

The Japanese Interests follows a necessary deployment of our interests as we normalize our military power and responsibilities in congruence with our economic and political developments in the region and beyond. This is rather similar to China's own decision to deploy its interests (economic, political, military) in areas outside the traditional Chinese Sphere, ergo, in Sudan, in Djibouti, in Cyprus et al. As we all aim to enhance our interests and our strategic clout, we all will find ourselves contending with one another, cooperating with one another (yes at the same time) in areas that may not necessarily be in Northeast Asia.

We live in truly exciting times. To that, I shall raise my cup to you and others who share the same broad analysis as I.

Hmmm, not really what I was going for. I'll put it to you this way, the Japanese people matters, Japan's voice can and will be heard, Japan is seen as a democratic free and prosperous country. I am of the mindset, even if Japan fires the first shot, China cannot act, as anything we do will be condemned and we cannot weather the storm just yet.

Japan will be seen as the good guy, at least for the next few decades, and China cannot make a move without serious repercussions, and that completely defeats the purpose even if we do win.

On the other hand, China can fire the first shot on most of the ASEAN, without much problems, while they may have population, and some be US allies, but due to their backwardness and poverty, it's not hard to convince the world they are at the very least not innocent.

That and I believe the US don't want to lose Japan as an ally, as I said Japan is part of G6, and there's only 6.

Money talks, in more ways than one, but mostly the talking part is very important.

Developed Nations: War must happen (if not who is going to fund our arm industry ), and the war will happen to those misbehave developing or third world country...

Developed nations will war, but they will not be declared on, what would a Chinese or Russian invasion look like, can you imagine the political and economic disaster for either if Tokoyo or Berlin even catches a whiff of gun powder.

ha ha ha ha, who knows i might be the reincarnated soul of The Lord Nobunaga Oda.

back to the topic. lol.

I feel if Nobunaga became the Shogun, I think he was? Or at least close. Japan would have charter a different course, He was a very open minded person in terms of technology and trade.

 

[Aepsilons]

I feel if Nobunaga became the Shogun, I think he was? Or at least close. Japan would have charter a different course, He was a very open minded person in terms of technology and trade.

Yes, definitely more enlightened than Hideyoshi.

Nobunaga has a cult of personality following in Japan, btw.

Hmmm, not really what I was going for. I'll put it to you this way, the Japanese people matters, Japan's voice can and will be heard, Japan is seen as a democratic free and prosperous country. I am of the mindset, even if Japan fires the first shot, China cannot act, as anything we do will be condemned and we cannot weather the storm just yet.

Japan will be seen as the good guy, at least for the next few decades, and China cannot make a move without serious repercussions, and that completely defeats the purpose even if we do win.

On the other hand, China can fire the first shot on most of the ASEAN, without much problems, while they may have population, and some be US allies, but due to their backwardness and poverty, it's not hard to convince the world they are at the very least not innocent.

That and I believe the US don't want to lose Japan as an ally, as I said Japan is part of G6, and there's only 6.

Money talks, in more ways than one, but mostly the talking part is very important.

A war between Japan and China would mean everything , everything our leaders worked for since the 1978 TOPF would be nill. The entire region would suffer great destruction, all progress made would be reversed, quantified.

I don't think you would want that, i don't want that, i don't want my children's generation to say, "how we wish we could have enjoyed the progress of our fathers' , grandfathers' generation"