J-11D

[nk2120132471]

Deino is not a Yankee. he is a crazy Chinese's fighter fan Just like me

what he said "Yankee" is a famous military forum ID in china.He got some so-called insider-news.

 

[j20blackdragon]

The J-11D's combination of large AESA radar and ramjet powered PL-12D will allow it to dominate BVR combat. That means first-look, first-shot, first-kill. Only the stealth fighters will be better. People need to understand that WVR combat (dogfighting) is nothing more than a crapshoot. Even a MiG-21 has a chance in a dogfight. Furthermore, the prevalence of HMD and HOBS missiles in many modern fighters make going into a dogfight more dangerous than ever.

Even the F-22 loses its advantages in a dogfight.

Report: F-22 Raptor Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights - ABC News

 

[Brainsucker]

The J-11D's combination of large AESA radar and ramjet powered PL-12D will allow it to dominate BVR combat. That means first-look, first-shot, first-kill. Only the stealth fighters will be better. People need to understand that WVR combat (dogfighting) is nothing more than a crapshoot. Even a MiG-21 has a chance in a dogfight. Furthermore, the prevalence of HMD and HOBS missiles in many modern fighters make going into a dogfight more dangerous than ever.

Even the F-22 loses its advantages in a dogfight.

Report: F-22 Raptor Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights - ABC News

This theory seem nice, but can't work in real combat, unless you fight against an adversary that has a great deal of disadvantage compared to you. Against a peer of adversary, want it or not, you will go into dog fight or at least enter the WVR range. Because just like you, your adversary has also ECM, radar, BVR capability (that maybe better than yours), etc. Who know, instead of them, your are the side that forced to go into WVR to kill them, because you are at the disadvantage in BVR capability compared to them.

 

[j20blackdragon]

This theory seem nice, but can't work in real combat, unless you fight against an adversary that has a great deal of disadvantage compared to you. Against a peer of adversary, want it or not, you will go into dog fight or at least enter the WVR range. Because just like you, your adversary has also ECM, radar, BVR capability (that maybe better than yours), etc. Who know, instead of them, your are the side that forced to go into WVR to kill them, because you are at the disadvantage in BVR capability compared to them.

Peer adversaries don't fight each other directly, especially not nuclear armed adversaries. The Cold War has already proven that. China's most likely target within this decade are probably small countries with territorial disputes in the South China Sea. We already know the Philippines won't do anything. They don't even have a credible air force. So that leaves Vietnamese Su-30MK2V as the most likely target.

 

[Brainsucker]

Peer adversaries don't fight each other directly, especially not nuclear armed adversaries. The Cold War has already proven that. China's most likely target within this decade are probably small countries with territorial disputes in the South China Sea. We already know the Philippines won't do anything. They don't even have a credible air force. So that leaves Vietnamese Su-30MK2V as the most likely target.

The SU-30MK2V is also an incredible Jet Fighter with today capability. Don't underestimated them.
I don't say that Vietnam has the power to match PLAAF in an encounter. They will always get vastly outnumbered by PLAAF if they ever have crazy enough to stand against China in battle. Losing 10 SU-30 MK2V will hurt Vietnam more than for PLAAF lost 20 J-11D. So losing will be inevitable to them. I just want to say that SU-30MK2V can bite. So don't become the US when they decide that WVR was pointless when they developed F-4 long time ago.

 

[antonius123]

The SU-30MK2V is also an incredible Jet Fighter with today capability. Don't underestimated them.
I don't say that Vietnam has the power to match PLAAF in an encounter. They will always get vastly outnumbered by PLAAF if they ever have crazy enough to stand against China in battle. Losing 10 SU-30 MK2V will hurt Vietnam more than for PLAAF lost 20 J-11D. So losing will be inevitable to them. I just want to say that SU-30MK2V can bite. So don't become the US when they decide that WVR was pointless when they developed F-4 long time ago.

SU-30MK2V is not match againts J-11D.
SU-30MK2V is more comparable to J-11A.

 

[j20blackdragon]

So don't become the US when they decide that WVR was pointless when they developed F-4 long time ago.

WVR isn't pointless. It's just that there's very little more you can do to improve it. Most modern 4th gen fighters already have HMS and HOBS missiles, so the moment you enter WVR combat it becomes suicide for both sides. The enemy pilot simply has to look at you and you're dead.

So the solution is to gain as much of an advantage at BVR as possible.

I believe the J-11D's combination of AESA radar and ramjet PL-12D makes it one of the better 4.5 generation fighters out there.

 

[ptldM3]

SU-30MK2V is not match againts J-11D.
SU-30MK2V is more comparable to J-11A.

You have experience with either aircraft to make such a claim? All aircraft are dangerous, if they have a radar and missiles they can kill.



Even aircraft that are outdated can be potent if they are aided by AWACS/EW aircraft; pilot skills always come into play as well, there are aggressor squadrons with very good pilots that fly less capably aircraft that regularly defeat less capable pilots flying much more sophisticated much more maneuverable aircraft.

 

[Bratva]

You have experience with either aircraft to make such a claim? All aircraft are dangerous, if they have a radar and missiles they can kill.



Even aircraft that are outdated can be potent if they are aided by AWACS/EW aircraft; pilot skills always come into play as well, there are aggressor squadrons with very good pilots that fly less capably aircraft that regularly defeat less capable pilots flying much more sophisticated much more maneuverable aircraft.

How's the training of Russian pilot these days? Are they becoming proficient in both BVR and WVR engagements ?

 

[ptldM3]

How's the training of Russian pilot these days? Are they becoming proficient in both BVR and WVR engagements ?

Of course that is what training is for.

 

[Bratva]

Of course that is what training is for.

Since NATO puts more emphasis on BVR and Russia has to fight nato in BVR arena mostly. Any idea if current curriculum of russian airforce is geared more towards BVR putting less emphasis on WVR or maintaining a balance in both fields

 

[ptldM3]

Since NATO puts more emphasis on BVR and Russia has to fight nato in BVR arena mostly. Any idea if current curriculum of russian airforce is geared more towards BVR putting less emphasis on WVR or maintaining a balance in both fields

I'm not in the Russian Air Force, but there is no preference for either, both skills are practiced and mastered.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Nice 1, which jet is it? J-20 i suppose?

 

[Brainsucker]

SU-30MK2V is not match againts J-11D.
SU-30MK2V is more comparable to J-11A.

Do I compare both fighters? I just say that SU-30MK2V can bite. I don't want to compare fighter to fighter in here, because that will only put us into fanboy vs fanboy pointless debate. Plus, we don't know those fighters personally, and we don't have any knowledge about them. So we don't have the right to compare and then judge their capability. Patriotism has it's limit. Sometime, you can't judge something just based on your patriotism alone.

WVR isn't pointless. It's just that there's very little more you can do to improve it. Most modern 4th gen fighters already have HMS and HOBS missiles, so the moment you enter WVR combat it becomes suicide for both sides. The enemy pilot simply has to look at you and you're dead.

So the solution is to gain as much of an advantage at BVR as possible.

I believe the J-11D's combination of AESA radar and ramjet PL-12D makes it one of the better 4.5 generation fighters out there.

No, WVR still has a big room to improve. Just look at today Fighters. Thrust Vectoring, helmet mounted display, etc. They improve the WVR capability of an aircraft. So why they bother to improve the fighter WVR capability?

 

[j20blackdragon]

No, WVR still has a big room to improve. Just look at today Fighters. Thrust Vectoring, helmet mounted display, etc. They improve the WVR capability of an aircraft. So why they bother to improve the fighter WVR capability?

HMS is old technology. Even PLAAF J-7E and J-7G have HMS.

The US has JHMCS and AIM-9X.

As for thrust vectoring, the vast majority of USAF and USN fighters (F-16, F-15, F/A-18, and F-35) don't have thrust vectoring. Are you saying the US can't win WVR?

The future is BVR.

Why upgrade to AESA? Answer: BVR.

Why ramjet BVRAAM like MBDA Meteor? Answer: BVR.

Why make stealth fighter? Answer: BVR.