J-11B vs Su-30MKI

[ptldM3]

The fact is in a real fight, the Typhoon with its small RCS, supercruise ability, AESA and longer range Meteor ramjet BVRAAMs would greatly have the edge over MKI.

Typhoon AESA? Correct me if im wrong but it still uses PESA, and the Meteor is still years away from introduction. The overlooked aircraft is India's Mig-29K and although India has a small handful of them they do come with AESA and a true BVR missle---AA-10 with a rage of 130km.

 

[KEETARP]

The fact is in a real fight, the Typhoon with its small RCS, supercruise ability, AESA and longer range Meteor ramjet BVRAAMs would greatly have the edge over MKI.

Rcs -

What is the RCS of Typhoon in clean and typical A2A mission . Who calculated it.????
If you know about Geometry and shapings of LO objects , you can very well tell Typhoon dosen't have LO shape. And when fully armed with weapons that RCS figure dosen't even matter for Powerfull radar such as Modern Phase Array radars.

Supercruise-

Typhoon hasn't demonstrated supercruise in combat loaded state. Clean supercruise dosen't count in air-warfare

AESA-

AESA dosen't means or translate into Greater performance .
Look at the detection range of F18 APG79 it is less than what Su35 gives with PESA radar . What matters is Peak power rating , Avg power and Duty cycle (or coefficient of variability) to maintain that AvgPw rating during Pulse transmission.
Typhoon still don't have AESA radar ,

METEOR

Is many years away from operational clearence or combat readiness on Typhoon . Even that too needs integration with Typhoon's next radar which will be selected later. Till now only CAPTOR has fired testing phase.
Range of METEOR and and any other missile varies btw Kinematics of aircraft itself , a Mach2 travelling Jet firing missile will have range advantage over a Mach1.2 jet firing that same missile.

Greatly have the edge over MKI

Thats relative ,
Yes Typhoon has advantage over MKI but only in Defensive aids. Here is what Typhoon has edge on MKI
There is no such thing like DASS on current MKI
MIDS on Typhoon has better range than Russian datalinks .
PIRATE system on Typhoon gives a larger and 360 coverage to typhoon while OLS30 on MKI has same FLIR with less coverage .
Most of these are Passive sensors and provide a tight sensor-fusion on typhoon's central Motorolla Processor providing better situational awareness to Pilot about surrounding. That's it.

 

[KEETARP]

Typhoon AESA? Correct me if im wrong but it still uses PESA, and the Meteor is still years away from introduction. The overlooked aircraft is India's Mig-29K and although India has a small handful of them they do come with AESA and a true BVR missle---AA-10 with a rage of 130km.

No , Mig29 dosen't have a AFAR , its radar is still Zhuk-MF
Navy dosen't have stock of R27 , if you follow the procurement list . It was letter from MoD
The BVR weapon of Mig29 is still R77 . So range is still of R77(80Km) not of R27(120).

 

[SomeGuy]

Typhoon AESA? Correct me if im wrong but it still uses PESA, and the Meteor is still years away from introduction. The overlooked aircraft is India's Mig-29K and although India has a small handful of them they do come with AESA and a true BVR missle---AA-10 with a rage of 130km.

Sorry, my bad.

AESA has been in testing on Typhoon test aircraft since 2007 and should be part of Tranche 3 in 2012.

Even without Meteor, I still think the Typhoon would have an edge due to its low RCS (reputedly <1m2) making it more difficult for MKI to detect, in contrast to the large RCS of MKI.

The 130km range for the AA-10/R-27 is for the semi-active radar version - so it's not 'fire and forget'

 

[ptldM3]

No , Mig29 dosen't have a AFAR , its radar is still Zhuk-MF
Navy dosen't have stock of R27 , if you follow the procurement list . It was letter from MoD
The BVR weapon of Mig29 is still R77 . So range is still of R77(80Km) not of R27(120).

The Zhuk-AE went into full production earlier this year; 10 are to be built in 2010 and the Mig-29K and KUB would/is the intended platform. I was also told that the India Mig-29K/KUB had the zhuk-ae, than again Indian media isn't always reliable.

As for the Indian Migs i always though they came with the AA-10, my mistake.

 

[SomeGuy]

What is the RCS of Typhoon in clean and typical A2A mission . Who calculated it.????
If you know about Geometry and shapings of LO objects , you can very well tell Typhoon dosen't have LO shape. And when fully armed with weapons that RCS figure dosen't even matter for Powerfull radar such as Modern Phase Array radars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EF2000#Radar_signature_reduction_features

Although not designated a stealth fighter, measures were taken to reduce the Typhoon's radar cross section (RCS), especially from the frontal aspect. An example of these measures is that the Typhoon has jet inlets that conceal the front of the jet engine (a strong radar target) from radar. Many important potential radar targets, such as the wing, canard and fin leading edges, are highly swept, so will reflect radar energy well away from the front sector. Some external weapons are mounted semi-recessed into the aircraft, partially shielding these missiles from incoming radar waves. In addition radar absorbent materials (RAM) developed primarily by EADS/DASA coat many of the most significant reflectors, e.g. the wing leading edges, the intake edges and interior, the rudder surrounds, strakes, etc. The Typhoon does not use internal storage of weapons. External mounting points are used instead, which increases its radar cross section but allows for more and larger stores.

According to the RAF, the Eurofighter's RCS is better than RAF requirements. Comments from BAE Systems suggest the radar return is around one quarter of that of the Tornado it replaces. The Eurofighter is thought to have an RCS of less than one square metre in a clean configuration

 

[KEETARP]

Eurofighter Typhoon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Eurofighter is thought to have an RCS of less than one square metre in a clean configuration

Wars are never fought in clean configuration
That too Wiki says only Frontal sector has been taken

Many important potential radar targets, such as the wing, canard and fin leading edges, are highly swept, so will reflect radar energy well away from the front sector

That means highly Swept wings would have least RCS. That is not true look at F14 most swept wings.

Then it should have least RCS return even better than F117/F22.??
Swept wings is lest RCS reduction measure
Maximum reflections that determine Radar return from fighter Jet is
-Hot ionised plume of gas .
-Canopy reflections
-Weapons store
What has been done in case of Eurofighter
No IR reduction
No internal bay

The Typhoon does not use internal storage of weapons. External mounting points are used instead, which increases its radar cross section but allows for more and larger stores.

No canopy treatment.
To reduce canopy return F16 used Have-Glass2 reduction Gold canopy , there is no such reduction on Typhoon.
Atleast Sukhoi tried canopy treatment
MULTIFUNCTIONAL NANOSIZED COATINGS
Uncoated
Photos: Sukhoi Su-30MK Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
coated
Photos: Sukhoi Su-30MK Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

And RCS matters at what angle of engagement is there , what Freq of operation is used.

See same figure RCS has different value at diff freq . BARS operate both in X and L band .
For which band RCS figures ,we are talking off when comparing .

Although not designated a stealth fighter, measures were taken to reduce the Typhoon's radar cross section (RCS)

This reduced RCS only matters when we are talking of LO aircraft as i said before , it dosen't matter when you have a aircraft with loaded missile and drop tanks jutting out. against a powerful radar like BARS detecting returns from even 1m2 figure at 80kms distance. Even if you take 1m2 RCS for all drop-tanks + Missile (which in itself is a conservative estimate ) RCS of Typhoon is not less than 1.5 . Look at the chart where Su30 identifies it , much beyond R77 range.

The Eurofighter is thought to have an RCS of less than one square metre in a clean configuration

This explains everything why Wiki cant be trusted -
Thought is different from Manufacturer's words

 

[gowthamraj]

Man you have any clear source that indicates mig-29k have AESA radar

 

[applesauce]

@apple,
As IndianArmy Said, we are NOT looking for a fighter BETTER than MKI, but to make up the numbers and to fill in the gap between LCA and MKI.

@luftwaffe,
You just deliberately misspelt..
I guess this is ur best shot when u got NO defence.. And suitable replies.
U r not to blame.. MKI is the King of Asian Skies.

@
I never said jf17 has j11 radar.
I was ONLY stating the IMPORTANCE of Advanced Radar and Avionics.

i would agree that the MKI is indeed a good 4.5 gen plane however the claim was that it is the BEST 4.5 gen plane which is debatable at best. especially given that it has no proven combat record compare that with the likes of F-15 and F-16, in pure terms of specs American and European planes(recent models) can be as good or better. you can then see why i highly doubt that MKI is the best

 

[sachair27]

please stop comparing su-30mki with other aircraft. first u compare it with jf-17, j-10,f-16 and now j-11b.
j-11b is a copy of su-30. every thing is same.

oopse thats wrong its a copy of an su27 not 30

 

[sachair27]

NO, the Typhoon pilots only said that the MKI had superior manoeuvering.

This is important because the Indra Dhanush exercise was to simulate close air combat with guns only - this is where manoeuverability is important.

MKI fanboys like yourself then take this to mean that the MKI on the whole is a better plane - this is simply not true (see below).



The fact is in a real fight, the Typhoon with its small RCS, supercruise ability, AESA and longer range Meteor ramjet BVRAAMs would greatly have the edge over MKI.

mate you really are some guy.....
mate stop quoting defense industry daily....do some research and you will know about the jammers and AA 10 missiles onboard su30mki...
as far as russian Su's are concerned they out maneuver the western ACs....
even f16s had a hard time with the jammers on Mig21s during the US-India joint exercise

 

[Storm Force]

Both J11 & SU30MKI are far superior planes to anything in most mid tech asian air forces

Brute power with great weapons load and multi role capability.

Great news for Both PLAAF & IAF.

The rest can look with ENVY

 

[IndianTiger]

j-11BS

Su 30MKi is over rated by indians,

and cost is very low 35-37 Million per aircraft.

my friend USAF admitted this is Incredible machine, recently UK said the same when Eurofighter and MKI faced each other..

 

[Bigoren]

oopse thats wrong its a copy of an su27 not 30

nope,you wrong.J11B is designed based on su-27 but its function better than su-30.

 

[SBD-3]

my friend USAF admitted this is Incredible machine, recently UK said the same when Eurofighter and MKI faced each other..

Dont Rush over to Wiki for Research, a lot of rephrazing on Wiki which can easily mislead the reader.