J-11B vs Su-30MKI

[Heinz89]

^ The specific weight is not public information. But it is public information that J-11B makes extensive use of composites. So, to recap:

J-11B's advantages
- fully indigenous including engines (= lower cost + maintenance + interoperability + wartime production)
- better AA missiles than Russian ones
- lighter airframe
- superior cockpit

MKI advantage
- TVC (assuming it works as advertised)

New photos of J-11B!

http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B.jpg

What are the better Chinese AA missiles??? name them.... I bet they can't be better than R 77 or R 73...........

Also how can we judge two aircraft using cockpit design and indigenous products????????

 

[Heinz89]

Anyways SU 30MKK is better than the SU 30MKI............... according to that guise... Chinese J-11B could be better than Su 30MKI in fighter department........ considering the two seat configuration of the Su 30MKI...........

 

[khail007]

jf 17 is jerk if cost only matters..

Wake-up dude, this matter already been over and for your information title is 'J11B vs SU-30MKI'.

In fact such comparison are for technological discussion to gain knowledge but usually turned out to be troller's paradise - that is very un-fortunate.

 

[Bharthi]

Su -30 MKI has better Engines


J-11B -- Al-31F- All soviet Era Avionics

Su-30MKI -- Al-31FP ,Israeli LITENING targeting pod,Israeli Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer,French SAGEM Sigma-95 integrated global positioning system and ring laser gyroscope inertial navigation system.

 

[Emmie]

Su -30 MKI has better Engines


J-11B -- Al-31F
Su-30MKI -- Al-31FP

With what respect? TVC?

 

[punisher]

Anyways SU 30MKK is better than the SU 30MKI............... according to that guise... Chinese J-11B could be better than Su 30MKI in fighter department........ considering the two seat configuration of the Su 30MKI...........

ok dude, What eva advantages that MKi holds you will make it minute, And you will see JF-17, F-16,J-10B,J-11B in magnified glass. Yeah MKK is better than MKI. happy now

 

[The enlightened]

Anyways SU 30MKK is better than the SU 30MKI............... according to that guise... Chinese J-11B could be better than Su 30MKI in fighter department........ considering the two seat configuration of the Su 30MKI...........

and how did you assume that
please feel free to explain to us the parameters on which u decided that mkk are better
and how does a 'two seat configuration' make Su 30mki weaker in 'fighter department'

 

[Jon Snow]

Its hard to be sure about the specs - most sources claim that it currently uses some russian equipment which will be replaced by chinese equipment soon - since it's hard to find reliable sources for performance specs of chinese equipment my analysis takes into account russian equipment only.
Engines - AL -31F for the J-11 and the AL-31FP for the Su30mki - the AL-31FP is basically an improved version of the AL-31F.
But the engines of the J-11 are supposed to be changed to WS-10A taihing - dont know much about them so no comment.
Maneuverability - Giving this to the Su-30mki easy - with canards and TVC I doubt anything could match it in this department.
Radar - The J-11 is equiped with the NIIP Tikhomirov N001VE - with a tracking range of 80-100km ( this radar is old tech from the 80s)- however its soon to be replaced by the chinese AESA radar - again no specs available.
The Su-30mki is equipped with the NIIP N011M Bars which has a tracking range of 200km but this is also to be replaced by a Russian Zhuk AE - the prototype fielded in the MMRCA trials was the FGA-29 - this is not the production model - the production variant for the mig 35 is the FGA 35 which has a 700mm antenna and a range of 200km. however considering that the su 30mki has a much larger nose than the mig 35 and we can fit a lot more modules into it (thereby increasing the range of the radar) we can predict it will have a range of around 250-300km.
IRST - the J-11 has the OLS 27 (soon to be replaced by the chinese model) while the su 30mki has the OLS 30 ( an improved variant of the OLS 30)
Avionics and EWS - No info available but I doubt that the chinese ones could be as good as the French and Israeli systems seen on the Su-30mki.
RCS - this is one place where the J 11 will have an advantage - it has reduced RCS ( dont know by how much) - but we can be reasonably sure it will be around or probably slightly bigger than the su 35(1 m2) , while the Su 30mki has 10m2 - though this will also come down to some extent after upgradation.
So on paper it would seem that the MKI has the advantage for the real thing you'd need to put them against each other(lets hope we never see that day)

 

[turkish]

Does it matter at the end of the day if its copied or developed ? Will you ask the Chinese this question during war ? Isn't everything fair in war ?
Yes , the Chinese used to reverse engineer ( not easy as your words seem to portray ) but now they are innovating ... J 20 Go figure out !

and we have an idea how much Indians are successful in Innovation with canceled and delayed projects like Kaveri and LCA ?
Could you develop the engine without foreign assistance ? the reason Snecma is providing the core for engine for future AMCA ...
Every country needs some base to start ... The Chinese have done that , Indians are reluctant ... Their defense ministers know they can get kickbacks by importing so why innovate and develop at home ?

and i will ignore the same old crap about us ... We are doing well with Chinese military assistance ...

I understand from your post that Chinese are good... but what are you.. their Pimp...Atleast we make something, what you do, and what you made... Dont say JF 17, its the same like Australian contribution F35...

 

[turkish]

^ The specific weight is not public information. But it is public information that J-11B makes extensive use of composites. So, to recap:

J-11B's advantages
- fully indigenous including engines (= lower cost + maintenance + interoperability + wartime production)
- better AA missiles than Russian ones
- lighter airframe
- superior cockpit

MKI advantage
- TVC (assuming it works as advertised)

New photos of J-11B!

http://cnair.top81.cn/fighter/J-11B.jpg

Your post is as weird as your name....

 

[khanz4996]

how can indians say J11 is a copy while their SU30IZV is russian fighter assembled in india thats it india cant even do the reverse engineering india is best in software not in hardware like china.china applaused for their achievement of devolping such a high tech weapon system on their own.TODAY INDIA SAYS J11 IS A COPY OF SU27 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE ONE TOMORROW THEY WILL SAY JF17 IS A COPY OF FA-18 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT AND THE DAY AFTER THEY WILL SAY J20 IS A COPY OF F35 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT.WHAT ABOUT RUSSIA THEN IT COPIED MIG35 FROM F15.THIS IS SO STUPID AND I BET ALL ARE CHILDREN HERE

 

[The enlightened]

how can indians say J11 is a copy while their SU30IZV is russian fighter assembled in india thats it india cant even do the reverse engineering india is best in software not in hardware like china.china applaused for their achievement of devolping such a high tech weapon system on their own.TODAY INDIA SAYS J11 IS A COPY OF SU27 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE ONE TOMORROW THEY WILL SAY JF17 IS A COPY OF FA-18 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT AND THE DAY AFTER THEY WILL SAY J20 IS A COPY OF F35 BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THAT.WHAT ABOUT RUSSIA THEN IT COPIED MIG35 FROM F15.THIS IS SO STUPID AND I BET ALL ARE CHILDREN HERE

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listen moron, get your facts first, then distort them as you please.

 

[khanz4996]

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listen moron, get your facts first, then distort them as you please.

so the enlightened moron should spell his facts out

 

[SomeGuy]

Its hard to be sure about the specs - most sources claim that it currently uses some russian equipment which will be replaced by chinese equipment soon - since it's hard to find reliable sources for performance specs of chinese equipment my analysis takes into account russian equipment only.
Engines - AL -31F for the J-11 and the AL-31FP for the Su30mki - the AL-31FP is basically an improved version of the AL-31F.
But the engines of the J-11 are supposed to be changed to WS-10A taihing - dont know much about them so no comment.

Both AL-31F and AL-31FP produce same amount of thrust.
Only advantage is that AL-31FP has thrust vectoring.

Maneuverability - Giving this to the Su-30mki easy - with canards and TVC I doubt anything could match it in this department.

There are other factors in J-11B's favour though, for example, lower weight, coupled with supposedly higher thrust of WS-10A would give the J-11B a higher T/W ratio. J-11B is said to have higher top speed and service ceiling than MKI.

Also, since the J-11B and the MKI have nearly the same airframe, but the MKI is much heavier, the J-11B would have lighter wing loading - normally this would give the J-11B an advantage in climb rate, turning performance, but like you said the MKI has canards and thrust vectoring so who knows? It would be interesting to see how all these various factors come into play to affect overall performance.

Radar - The J-11 is equiped with the NIIP Tikhomirov N001VE - with a tracking range of 80-100km ( this radar is old tech from the 80s)- however its soon to be replaced by the chinese AESA radar - again no specs available.
The Su-30mki is equipped with the NIIP N011M Bars which has a tracking range of 200km but this is also to be replaced by a Russian Zhuk AE - the prototype fielded in the MMRCA trials was the FGA-29 - this is not the production model - the production variant for the mig 35 is the FGA 35 which has a 700mm antenna and a range of 200km. however considering that the su 30mki has a much larger nose than the mig 35 and we can fit a lot more modules into it (thereby increasing the range of the radar) we can predict it will have a range of around 250-300km.

The J-11B doesn't have the NIIP Tikhomirov N001VE radar.
It has a indigenous chinese radar with a search range supposedly >150km

IRST - the J-11 has the OLS 27 (soon to be replaced by the chinese model) while the su 30mki has the OLS 30 ( an improved variant of the OLS 30)
Avionics and EWS - No info available but I doubt that the chinese ones could be as good as the French and Israeli systems seen on the Su-30mki.

If the story about the J-10 and the Vietnamese Su-30's are true, then I should think they should be very decent.

RCS - this is one place where the J 11 will have an advantage - it has reduced RCS ( dont know by how much) - but we can be reasonably sure it will be around or probably slightly bigger than the su 35(1 m2) , while the Su 30mki has 10m2 - though this will also come down to some extent after upgradation.

I don't think that the RCS reduction is as significant as some people think.
I saw somewhere on another forum some chinese guy posted a video capture of J-11B with some Chinese writing and they said that the writing indicated that the RCS was 4m2.

So on paper it would seem that the MKI has the advantage for the real thing you'd need to put them against each other(lets hope we never see that day)

 

[Secur]

I understand from your post that Chinese are good... but what are you.. their Pimp...Atleast we make something, what you do, and what you made... Dont say JF 17, its the same like Australian contribution F35...

Praising someone = pimping in your view Start again from Kindergarten kiddo ... and you will be able to increase your post count better instead of these idiotic posts ...