J-10 might not needed as they don't add anything to PAF's capability

[punit]

J20 will hit all the birds with one stone. There is no comparison between stealth vs 4++ generation fighters. No matter how many pluses anyone add to 4th generation, they are no match for stealth. Single squadron of J-20 (considering it's on par with F-22) can take out whole IAF.

So, I would suggest PAF to get serious about stealth. Let IAF waste Billions on SU-30s and Rafaels, potent stealth will duck shoot them.

BTW Russian Stealth program is in trouble. Western analysis don't believe that Russian design is decent enough for a stealth fighter and their RAM is also questionable. So IAF is pretty much F'd if PAF is able to acquire J20.

so chinese who have nothing close to SU 30 and 35 s in their inventory will some how make a stealthy plane more potent than Russian ones ! makes sense !

 

[MastanKhan]

Subtle and apt, Master.





Shouldn't that be Goebbels?

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Hi,

You are right---but I heard it from my jewish colleagues here in the U S---using the term often in their relationship with U S and israel---so I gave them credit---.

so chinese who have nothing close to SU 30 and 35 s in their inventory will some how make a stealthy plane more potent than Russian ones ! makes sense !

Hi,

Very simple and very easy---because that was their primary focus---and they got all the needed information to build those aircraft and that is where the primary research and investment was directed towards---.

So---basically they missed out on a generation of fighter aircraft---because they needed to have their primary aircraft take on the adversary's primary aircraft---.

Once that is done----then the EW tech from the primary aircraft would be directed towards the SU30 / SU35 type of aircraft---which is being integrated as of now---.

In other words---the chinese are building a strong top tier aircraft to take care of its NOW problem---SCS issue---unlike pakistan that is starting from the bottom end up.

It is not that the chinese don't have anything close to the SU30----they do---.

I would also say that they have so much funds available and so many resources available that they can invest in so many parallel program at the same time---so that their Tier 1 and Tier 2 aircraft are progressing at the same time---which is unlike the development in any other nation.

 

[punit]

Hi,

You are right---but I heard it from my jewish colleagues here in the U S---using the term often in their relationship with U S and israel---so I gave them credit---.



Hi,

Very simple and very easy---because that was their primary focus---and they got all the needed information to build those aircraft and that is where the primary research and investment was directed towards---.

So---basically they missed out on a generation of fighter aircraft---because they needed to have their primary aircraft take on the adversary's primary aircraft---.

Once that is done----then the EW tech from the primary aircraft would be directed towards the SU30 / SU35 type of aircraft---which is being integrated as of now---.

In other words---the chinese are building a strong top tier aircraft to take care of its NOW problem---SCS issue---unlike pakistan that is starting from the bottom end up.

It is not that the chinese don't have anything close to the SU30----they do---.

I would also say that they have so much funds available and so many resources available that they can invest in so many parallel program at the same time---so that their Tier 1 and Tier 2 aircraft are progressing at the same time---which is unlike the development in any other nation.

well i disagree .. the so called quantum jump from 3rd/4th gen to 5th gen is fascinating but next to impossible. tech development is organic in nature.
There are many component like Engine, Avionics which are the result of structural growth. China still rely on Russian Engines for most of its real world work despite having many engines of its own. similarly Chinese are no where closer to 4++ gen avionics otherwise JF 17 would not been facing the issue of having western radar and Suite!!
so keeping these factors in mind my doubt in genuine .. but i may be wrong !

 

[Genghis khan1]

so chinese who have nothing close to SU 30 and 35 s in their inventory will some how make a stealthy plane more potent than Russian ones ! makes sense !

As per USAF Top Brass interview on China.

Their estimated F-22 to J-20 kill ratio is 3:1
and F-22 to J-11D kill ratio is 30:1

From here you can assesses that J20 does carry quite a punch. Chinese didn't build supercomputers to calculate and predict the outcome of ping pong matches. Western analyst believes, Chinese refused to work with Russians on stealth fighter, because they thought they have much to lose than gain.

 

[punit]

As per USAF Top Brass interview on China.

Their estimated F-22 to J-20 kill ratio is 3:1
and F-22 to J-11D kill ratio is 30:1

From here you can assesses that J20 does carry quite a punch. Chinese didn't build supercomputers to calculate and predict the outcome of ping pong matches. Western analyst believes, Chinese refused to work with Russians on stealth fighter, because they thought they have much to lose than gain.

fascinating .. but mere speculations.

 

[Genghis khan1]

0.3

fascinating .. but mere speculations.

More of a calculated assessment from a professional. If I could find it, I would have post the link for the interview. what I remember, he was of Maj. Gen rank and his command sole purpose was threat assessment and that sort of stuff.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Their estimated F-22 to J-20 kill ratio is 3:1
and F-22 to J-11D kill ratio is 30:1.

30:1 was a mere statement and its exaggerated. Its about half that. But you are right about the F-22 to J-20 and J-31, its about 1 to 3 or 4 Chinese platforms.

 

[Genghis khan1]

30:1 was a mere statement and its exaggerated

Why would you say that? High ranking uniformed personnel don't through out mere statements. I have every reason to believe his every single word.

Unless you have some solid info on this and that Maj,Gen was just trying to scare away Chinese by giving out a well-thought statement.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Why would you say that? High ranking uniformed personnel don't through out mere statements. I have every reason to believe his every single word.

Please name the "high ranking official" you had a direct conversation with. These are mere statements based on "guess work" and feel good stuff. Battle is totally different. The number can significantly decrease. One of the reasons I support us taking the F-22 to its original number, close to 500!!

Everything else, is written by different publishers who can twist anything they want. Gossip is the mother of all evil.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Please name the "high ranking official" you had a direct conversation with. Everything else, is written by different publishers who can twist anything they want. Gossip is the mother of all evil.

That what I am trying to find, link for the short interview. I believe i saw it on Business Insider: Defense .

 

[MastanKhan]

well i disagree .. the so called quantum jump from 3rd/4th gen to 5th gen is fascinating but next to impossible. tech development is organic in nature.
There are many component like Engine, Avionics which are the result of structural growth. China still rely on Russian Engines for most of its real world work despite having many engines of its own. similarly Chinese are no where closer to 4++ gen avionics otherwise JF 17 would not been facing the issue of having western radar and Suite!!
so keeping these factors in mind my doubt in genuine .. but i may be wrong !

Hi,

You may disagree---and that is your choice---. But talk to me after 3 years from now if I am alive---and we will re-visit the issue.

The issue with the JF 17 is different---it is not a priority for china---because paf is still interested in a western EW suite if it becomes available---so it does not reason well for china to build something just for the JF17 and have it later rejected by pakistan.

For that reason---there is no genuine effort by the state to invest in this project.

It is agreed that there are systems that have to grow exponentially---but it also depends on the from of mind of your engineers as well---available funds and research and resources---.

The systems in the engine have already grown---once deployed---they will further develop.

But when there is no shortage of funds and resource---so things happen. Just like for the J20---J31---J11---J16---J10---JF17---they may not have their primary targeted power plants---but it has not stopped them from progressing forward in other fields of flight and integration---by this process---they have compressed time---because when the required engine is released for service---the pressure will be released from the spring---and the system as a whole will jump forward.

 

[DJ_Viper]

That what I am trying to find, link for the short interview. I believe i saw it on Business Insider: Defense .

Think about it...."Business Insider" would give you defense and secret assessments openly like we talk about Music...?

 

[Genghis khan1]

Think about it...."Business Insider" would give you defense and secret assessments openly like we talk about Music...?

You miss the defence part Business Insider: Defense and I believed I saw it there but could be other forum. But the main thing is I saw the interview myself. Didn't heard it or read it. So I saw an actual serving Maj Gen talking.... it's been like 6 months.
http://www.businessinsider.com/defense

 

[DJ_Viper]

You miss the defence part Business Insider: Defense and I believed I saw it there but could be other forum. But the main thing is I saw the interview myself. Didn't heard it or read it. So I saw an actual serving Maj Gen talking.... it's been like 6 months.
http://www.businessinsider.com/defense

A few years ago, a 30 year old F-15 had a small issue with the cockpit. The generals wanted to make the case that the F-15's were old and they needed more -22's in numbers. You know what happened? They grounded the entire -15 fleet and told everyone how scary it was to fly. A couple of times, they needed to intercept the Russian TU bombers, the USAF asked the Canadians to scramble their -18's for the intercept. The point is, people do and say all kinds of things for their purposes. But what's discussed inside the Pentagon....always remain there. These interviews are based on opinions. Not an official USAF statement as otherwise, it would come from the Pentagon!

 

[Genghis khan1]

A few years ago, a 30 year old F-15 had a small issue with the cockpit. The generals wanted to make the case that the F-15's were old and they needed more -22's in numbers. You know what happened? They grounded the entire -15 fleet and told everyone how scary it was to fly. A couple of times, they needed to intercept the Russian TU bombers, the USAF asked the Canadians to scramble their -18's for the intercept. The point is, people do and say all kinds of things for their purposes. But what's discussed inside the Pentagon....always remain there. These interviews are based on opinions. Not an official USAF statement as otherwise, it would come from the Pentagon!

That's why I said, it may be a calculated move to throw chinese off in their estimation of capabilities but still, there must be some level of credibility in this statement for chinese to even buy it.