Super Falcon
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 15,816
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
F 18 i think india will go for or gripen i dont think so EF would be choosen one becoz of its high prize rafale might be other choice too
It's Sukhoi vs Eurofighter as IAF 'takes on' RAF
- Thread starter Markus
- Start date
can you read above post. every vendor agreed with the price tag set by IAF. they are trying hard to win the the deal with in that price tag. rafale will win, no doubt.
mehboobkz
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2010
- Messages
- 2,462
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
Indias Ministry of Defense, had this to say about the initial RAF-IAF 2007 clashes, and adds some words of wisdom:
The operational part of the Exercise Indradhanush-2007 began with a series of 1 vs 1 air combat sorties The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKIs observed superior maneuvering in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoons agility in the air.
While it does not imply to say that the 1 vs 1 air combat sorties were meant for backslapping each other, it may be understood that in todays aerial combat scenarios of beyond visual range (BVR) capabilities of air platforms, it is highly unlikely that any of the modern-day fighters will ever get into a situation that warrants extreme close air combat, as in the situation simulated in the 1 vs 1 sorties. With a kill criterion of front-gun ranges being mostly under 1000 meters and a visual tracking envelope behind the target for only up to a 60-degree cone mostly for most fighter aircraft of the world, the unlikely scenario gets more exemplified.
But the irony also lies in the fact that while there is a number of counter and counter-counter measures to make the modern missiles with claims of inescapable parameters redundant by using chaff and other active/passive measures, a gun kill is invariably a most certain kill. The pilots invariably begin honing their tracking and combat skills under such close combat situations.
This is true. Even in the modern missile age, most air-to-air kills have remained within visual range. As such, performance within the parameters of this initial matchup still matters.
At short missile ranges, both aircraft are equipped with canards for fast slew and point maneuvers, infrared search & track systems, helmet-mounted sights, and ultra-maneuverable short-range infrared missiles (ASRAAM, AA-11/R-73) with wide boresight seeker cones. This creates more forgiving parameters for a kill than the front gun range requirements; the SU-30MKIs superior maneuverability would have to contend with UK Typhoon flight profiles enabled by ASRAAMs longer range and lock-on after launch capability.
In longer-range combat situations, however, issues of detection and reach would also come into play. The Eurofighter is smaller, and is generally agreed to have more shaping than the SU-30 to reduce its radar profile (though neither aircraft is in the same class as the F-22A Raptor or even the less-stealthy F-35 Lightning II); and its Meteor ramjet BVRAAM missile is explicitly designed to kill from longer range than the Russian AA-12/R-77. Speed can compensate to some degree by reducing detection time and extending missile range, especially in HVA busting missions against tankers, AWACS aircraft, et. al.
Unlike the American F-22A, however, the Typhoons supercruise capability for sustained speed above Mach 1 apparently relies on the aircraft being clean (no external stores), while the SU-30 currently lacks that capability until and unless plans for an uprated engine come to fruition.
Exercise Indra Dhanush 2007 came to an end on July 12/07, reaching its crescendo with a 6 vs. 6 aerial combat involving 4 Indian Su-30 MKIs, 4 British F3 Tornado air defence variants, 2 British Typhoons, and 2 of the Royal Navys GR9 Harriers. An Indian IL-78 MKI aerial tanker and a British E-3D Sentry AWACS aircraft were also in the air. No details were released regarding the results, but were sure they made for very interesting debriefs.
The operational part of the Exercise Indradhanush-2007 began with a series of 1 vs 1 air combat sorties The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKIs observed superior maneuvering in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoons agility in the air.
While it does not imply to say that the 1 vs 1 air combat sorties were meant for backslapping each other, it may be understood that in todays aerial combat scenarios of beyond visual range (BVR) capabilities of air platforms, it is highly unlikely that any of the modern-day fighters will ever get into a situation that warrants extreme close air combat, as in the situation simulated in the 1 vs 1 sorties. With a kill criterion of front-gun ranges being mostly under 1000 meters and a visual tracking envelope behind the target for only up to a 60-degree cone mostly for most fighter aircraft of the world, the unlikely scenario gets more exemplified.
But the irony also lies in the fact that while there is a number of counter and counter-counter measures to make the modern missiles with claims of inescapable parameters redundant by using chaff and other active/passive measures, a gun kill is invariably a most certain kill. The pilots invariably begin honing their tracking and combat skills under such close combat situations.
This is true. Even in the modern missile age, most air-to-air kills have remained within visual range. As such, performance within the parameters of this initial matchup still matters.
At short missile ranges, both aircraft are equipped with canards for fast slew and point maneuvers, infrared search & track systems, helmet-mounted sights, and ultra-maneuverable short-range infrared missiles (ASRAAM, AA-11/R-73) with wide boresight seeker cones. This creates more forgiving parameters for a kill than the front gun range requirements; the SU-30MKIs superior maneuverability would have to contend with UK Typhoon flight profiles enabled by ASRAAMs longer range and lock-on after launch capability.
In longer-range combat situations, however, issues of detection and reach would also come into play. The Eurofighter is smaller, and is generally agreed to have more shaping than the SU-30 to reduce its radar profile (though neither aircraft is in the same class as the F-22A Raptor or even the less-stealthy F-35 Lightning II); and its Meteor ramjet BVRAAM missile is explicitly designed to kill from longer range than the Russian AA-12/R-77. Speed can compensate to some degree by reducing detection time and extending missile range, especially in HVA busting missions against tankers, AWACS aircraft, et. al.
Unlike the American F-22A, however, the Typhoons supercruise capability for sustained speed above Mach 1 apparently relies on the aircraft being clean (no external stores), while the SU-30 currently lacks that capability until and unless plans for an uprated engine come to fruition.
Exercise Indra Dhanush 2007 came to an end on July 12/07, reaching its crescendo with a 6 vs. 6 aerial combat involving 4 Indian Su-30 MKIs, 4 British F3 Tornado air defence variants, 2 British Typhoons, and 2 of the Royal Navys GR9 Harriers. An Indian IL-78 MKI aerial tanker and a British E-3D Sentry AWACS aircraft were also in the air. No details were released regarding the results, but were sure they made for very interesting debriefs.
The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKIs observed superior maneuvering in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoons agility in the air.
mehboobkz
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2010
- Messages
- 2,462
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
well we wont be buying all in fly away cost.. i guess only six aircrafts will coast around 100 mill.. the others will be produced by HAL under licenced production so the overall cost will come down dramatically.. remember its a 12 billion dollar deal not 120 billion dollars
Same logic applies to Rafel´s competitors!
!!craft!!
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2010
- Messages
- 543
- Reaction score
- 0
well the typhoon is high but thats the fly away cost .. it will be build in Indian under Hal. all the vendors know that the deal is of 12 bill .its not different for gripen or the Typhoon. if they and above all if EF wins india will be a equal partner for the development future versions of the EF tranches ..
!!craft!!
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2010
- Messages
- 543
- Reaction score
- 0
mehboobkz
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2010
- Messages
- 2,462
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
Last edited:
that do not matter. the vendor want to sell the fighter will get the full money and have to supply 126 no. that is the deal.
Last edited:
Super Falcon
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 15,816
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
whatabout the gripen also good contander and rafale they say they will deliver rafale on record time if rafale won the tender
redpearl75
BANNED
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2010
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
- 0
I bet I want it.. As it's the best that money can buy.. By the way Rafale is not 100 Mil a piece... Yes, with everything like the ToT and full upgrades it might close in 100 Mill a piece, that way if you look EFT is 91.2 Mill a piece and add the other costs to it with TOT and trench 3 configuration... Where would the final price a piece would land.. Don't you thnk EFT would be a wrong choice here... EFT sure is a great bird but not worth what's it charged for...
Super Falcon
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 15,816
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
mehboobkz
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2010
- Messages
- 2,462
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
YOU: france will reduce the price if they want to win the bid and they will.
ME: So will others, those who want to win the contract!
YOU: that do not matter. the vendor want to sell the fighter will get the full money and have to supply 126 no. that is the deal.
All six are competing AGAINST EACH OTHER......so why not the rest (lower the price)?
Your post did not make any logic man...
ME: So will others, those who want to win the contract!
YOU: that do not matter. the vendor want to sell the fighter will get the full money and have to supply 126 no. that is the deal.
All six are competing AGAINST EACH OTHER......so why not the rest (lower the price)?
Your post did not make any logic man...
redpearl75
BANNED
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2010
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
- 0
redpearl75
BANNED
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2010
- Messages
- 254
- Reaction score
- 0
---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------
What do you think now....?
Similar threads
- Article
- Article
