Its Official: JXX is going to test fly in the next few days

[SinoIndusFriendship]

either Russia or US is telling a lie.
US said: F22 rcs is 0.0001 square meter.
Russia said: we can detect F22 50kms away. (this would be imposible, if F22's rcs is what it is advertised)

what's the point in debating when he refuses to listen to science.

 

[mohd497]

Sure J-XX can have a low rcs, but what they are aiming for is even lower than Typhoon's.

Only US and now UK have RAM coating tech, not even Russia although Russia is trying pretty hard. So its tough, not impossible though.

I wish Chinese luck for their plane but we shouldn't be over optimistic either.

of course they are aiming for the lower RCS than Typhoon i was just pointing out that having canard doesnt mean it "kills stealth" which i successfully did.China is very progressive country and anything can happen i think they must have RAM tech otherwise you wont be hearing these news buddy.

 

[jagjitnatt]

No point in debating with Jag. He believes that "guru" doesn't require water or nourishment to sustain himself for 70 years, which defies science.

very clever to have edited your post after delivering the message.

BTW, I never said I believed him, I never even commented on that guy.

I just put up the fact about J-XX and whatever you throw at me. It is you who starts derailing cause you know nothing about it. Take your rants and insults somewhere else.

 

[jagjitnatt]

of course they are aiming for the lower RCS than Typhoon i was just pointing out that having canard doesnt mean it "kills stealth" which i successfully did.China is very progressive country and anything can happen i think they must have RAM tech otherwise you wont be hearing these news buddy.

I partially agree that china is very progressive, but expecting it to beat the tech masters of today would be an over stretch. If they had RAM coating tech, we would have seen the plane already, don't you think?
Even if not the J-XX we would have seen the tech on J-10 or J11.

 

[Guest]

what's the point in debating when he refuses to listen to science.

on the contrary, i found his comment on F22's rcs is resonable when cross referencing with his post of Russian radar's capability. so before we can found anything confronting with it (F22's rcs or Russian radar capability), he is right.

 

[mohd497]

I partially agree that china is very progressive, but expecting it to beat the tech masters of today would be an over stretch. If they had RAM coating tech, we would have seen the plane already, don't you think?
Even if not the J-XX we would have seen the tech on J-10 or J11.

dude i told you before not only having RAM tech means the country can develop stealth aircraft but also there are other factors you must understand chinese work in very secretive manner look at j-10 comes out of no where well lets have finger crossed your instinct tells you that it is difficult for china while mine tells me china have that capability only time will tell.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

no doubt canards will kill stealthiness, su-47 had canrads but still it was stealthy but not in league of 5th Gen

even Rafale & EF have canards but they are designed to become 'low observability A/Cs' but not complete 5th Gen A/Cs, lets see what Chinese can do

RCS

The base radar formula used is (RCS1/RCS2)^0.25. So the F-16C reduced RCS is 1.2 m2, standard fighter is 5 m2. (1.2/5)^0.25 = 0.69. Therefore the F-16C can be detected at 69% of radar range as compared with a standard fighter.
B-52 Bomber 100 m2 bomber range x1

F-4, A-10 25 m2 bomber x 0.71, fighter x 1.5

B-1B Bomber 10 m2 bomber x 0.56, fighter x 1.19

Tornado 8 m2 fighter x 1.12

Generic fighter 5 m2 fighter range x 1

MiG-21 3 m2 fighter x 0.88

F-16C/18C w. reduced RCS 1.2 m2 fighter x 0.7

F-18E, Rafale 0.75 m2 fighter x 0.62

Eurofighter 0.25-0.75 m2 fighter x 0.47-0.62

Exocet, Harpoon missile 0.1 m2 fighter x 0.38

JSF (‘golf ball sized&#8217 0.005 m2 fighter x 0.18

F-117, B-2, F-22 0.0001 m2 fighter x 0.07

F-117, B-2 F-22 also given as 0.01-0.001 m2, ‘marble sized’ or fighter x 0.12-0.21

F-22 RCS requirement was 1/1000th the F-15. This has probably be exceeded by a large margin. Even if the F-15 RCS is a large 25 m2, the F-22 is 0.025 m2 worst case (fighter x 0.26).

As can be seen ‘stealthy’ aircraft aim to reduce opposition situation awareness by decreasing detection range.

Situation Awareness

& for F-22 becoming visible within 35-40km is a fact, no one claims that F-22 will remain 'invisible' until it comes within WVR for a fight

AWACSs today like E-2C Hawkeye 2000 and E-3C are capable to the detect the target of RCS = 1m2 class 250~300 km away.

And their maximal effective detection range to the fighters in the world should be:

* F-15C & Su-27 (RCS = 10~15m2): 450 ~ 600 km
* Tornado (RCS = 8 m2): 420 ~ 500 km
* MIG-29 (RCS = 5 m2): 370 ~ 450 km
* F/A-18C (RCS = 3 m2): 330 ~ 395 km
* F-16C (RCS = 1.2 m2): 260 ~ 310 km
* JAS39 (RCS = 0.5 m2): 210 ~ 250 km
* Su-47 (RCS = 0.3 m2): 185 ~ 220 km
* Rafale (RCS = 0.1~0.2 m2): 140 ~ 200 km
* F-18E (RCS = 0.1 m2): 140 ~ 170 km
* MIG-42 (RCS = 0.1 m2): 140 ~ 170 km
* EF2K (RCS = 0.05~0.1 m2): 120 ~ 170 km
* F-35A (RCS = 0.0015 m2): 50 ~ 60 km
* F/A-22 (RCS < or = 0.0002~0.0005 m2): < or = 30 ~ 45 km

Even the tradional fighters (F-15, F-16) have the modern AWACS on their side, the stealthy fighter like F/A-22 with AIM-120 is still capable to give them the big surprise.

As for the low RCS NG fighters like EF-2000, MIG-42, and Rafale, if they are equipped with the NG BVRAAM like Meteor (Effective range: 90~100 km+ to the 9G maneuverable fighter, and 150~200 km+ to the big, slow and clumsy airplanes like AWACS...) and R-77M-PD (Maximal effective range: 160 km+), I think they also have certain amount of chance to give tradional fighters + modern AWACS today a surprise.

 

[gogbot]

Heh yea, it's def a very cool looking piece of fanart!

Also, I think we all know that they're just fanarts, nobody's saying it's the real thing. However, a pretty reliable poster on another board did say about 3 months ago that this pic supposedly look basically identical to the real thing:

Out of all the fanarts I've seen of the JXX, the supposed Chengdu leak pics bear the strongest resemblance to that pic, so maybe there's some merit to it? It's also entirely possible that one of the pics is simply inspired by the other. I suppose we'll just have to wait!

My whole point was to show you that , concept art can't be trusted.

It looks really cool , and you want the plane to be that way . But it never is what you hope it to be.

If keep taking all this art as representation of the real thing , you will just be disappointed when you see the real thing.

That Fat art picture you commented on for the Paf-FA m was the one that was , supposedly confirmed by a Sukhoi employee as where close to the real thing , obviously that was only rumour and we'd all been had

Believe what ever you want just putting the possibility out there

 

[SEAL]

The radar in Mig 35 which is Irbis E, an AESA radar can detect F22 at a range of 35-40 kms.

.

Jaginatt you forget that F-22 can detect Mig-35 and SU-30 from the distance of 200/250km. and keep aside your Indian propaganda first make your own things than come to the party.
we don't wanna embarrass you in every thread by reminding you of Tejas,Arjun dhuruv and consecative failures of missiles.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Jaginatt you forget that F-22 can detect Mig-35 and SU-30 from the distance of 200/250km. and keep aside your Indian propaganda first make your own things than come to the party.
we don't wanna embarrass you in every thread by reminding you of Tejas,Arjun dhuruv and consecative failures of missiles.

Stop jumping and read what I replied to. Someone had a doubt and I cleared it. Keep aside your hate when commenting on anything. No trolls allowed here.

 

[lhuang]

Jaginatt you forget that F-22 can detect Mig-35 and SU-30 from the distance of 200/250km. and keep aside your Indian propaganda first make your own things than come to the party.
we don't wanna embarrass you in every thread by reminding you of Tejas,Arjun dhuruv and consecative failures of missiles.

Just wondering:

Before posting this, what goes through your head?

 

[Speeder 2]

There's no absolute thing in science, the same in design. The claim that "canards kill stealth" is not absolute. It can be only understood in the context of "according to publicly available knowledge, or according to existing knowledge of the mainstream, canards kill stealth".

RAM considerable reduce RCS. On ram tech , US is no doubt the best. The UK itself is nothing on ram tech but a beneficiary of the US classified info. China, however, arguablelly is the second place in ram tech IMO, since China is a world leader in many aspects of Material Science, clearly ahead of Russia (possiblely ahead of the EU as well), by how much, we don't know as surely it's classified. We only can see that when the real deal comes out.

That's why I think China's next gen would be ahead of Russia on stealth tech. However, canards' advantage of increasing super maneuverability could potentially compensate the inferior tech of WS-15 in comparson to that of the US and Russia. So for Chinese scientists, obviously there is a trade-off btw super maneuverability(canards, and what kind of canard design with with kind of coating) and degree of the stealth required to be classified as the 5th gen.

Thus saying "since canards kill stralth, if J-XX has canards then it's no 5th gen" is patently misleading. One key aspect that scientists have been working on ( I can imagine since the very start) should have always been how to design JXX with stealthy canards in combination with their level of ram tech, while with its overall RCS performance still achieving the criterion of 5th gen, albeit slightly inferior to that of F-22.

 

[gogbot]

There's no absolute thing in science, the same in design. The claim that "canards kill stealth" is not absolute. It can be only understood in the context of "according to publicly available knowledge, or according to existing knowledge of the mainstream, canards kill stealth".

RAM considerable reduce RCS. On ram tech , US is no doubt the best. The UK itself is nothing on ram tech but a beneficiary of the US classified info. China, however, arguablelly is the second place in ram tech IMO, since China is a world leader in many aspects of Material Science, clearly ahead of Russia (possiblely ahead of the EU as well), by how much, we don't know as surely it's classified. We only can see that when the real deal comes out.

That's why I think China's next gen would be ahead of Russia on stealth tech. However, canards' advantage of increasing super maneuverability could potentially compensate the inferior tech of WS-15 in comparson to that of the US and Russia. So for Chinese scientists, obviously there is a trade-off btw super maneuverability(canards, and what kind of canard design with with kind of coating) and degree of the stealth required to be classified as the 5th gen.

Thus saying "since canards kill stralth, if J-XX has canards then it's no 5th gen" is patently misleading. One key aspect that scientists have been working on ( I can imagine since the very start) should have always been how to design JXX with stealthy canards in combination with their level of ram tech, while with its overall RCS performance still achieving the criterion of 5th gen, albeit slightly inferior to that of F-22.

Or you should just consider the possibility the J-XX concept art does not represent true design.

and that the J-XX really does not have canards.

It's far simpler to not install canards then , to try and find a solution to problem that as far we know is far more difficult.

 

[jagjitnatt]

There's no absolute thing in science, the same in design. The claim that "canards kill stealth" is not absolute. It can be only understood in the context of "according to publicly available knowledge, or according to existing knowledge of the mainstream, canards kill stealth".

RAM considerable reduce RCS. On ram tech , US is no doubt the best. The UK itself is nothing on ram tech but a beneficiary of the US classified info. China, however, arguablelly is the second place in ram tech IMO, since China is a world leader in many aspects of Material Science, clearly ahead of Russia (possiblely ahead of the EU as well), by how much, we don't know as surely it's classified. We only can see that when the real deal comes out.

That's why I think China's next gen would be ahead of Russia on stealth tech. However, canards' advantage of increasing super maneuverability could potentially compensate the inferior tech of WS-15 in comparson to that of the US and Russia. So for Chinese scientists, obviously there is a trade-off btw super maneuverability(canards, and what kind of canard design with with kind of coating) and degree of the stealth required to be classified as the 5th gen.

Thus saying "since canards kill stralth, if J-XX has canards then it's no 5th gen" is patently misleading. One key aspect that scientists have been working on ( I can imagine since the very start) should have always been how to design JXX with stealthy canards in combination with their level of ram tech, while with its overall RCS performance still achieving the criterion of 5th gen, albeit slightly inferior to that of F-22.

Correct. Since I am not aware on how good China is at RAM, I could be wrong at it.

You summed it up nice and without insults or useless trolls unlike some of other claiming to be chinese members.

Respect for that.

 

[mohd497]

self delete