It's GE F-414 for LCA Mk-II; EJ-200 loses the race in photo finish

[hecj]

This is another peice of news..

GE Aviation to Deliver 20 GE F414 Engines for HAL Tejas Mark II; Deliveries Begin in 2014 | India Defence

Uncle's arm twisting has worked. Enough to keep the GE production lines open.

but there were 99,i think.

 

[democracyspeaks]

If its really GE then GOI is playing a very clever game of making all parties happy

Russia > PAKFA & many other stuuf
US > Many stuff
France > Mirage upgrades &
EU > Eurofighter Typhoon

 

[Enigma]

Why stop at 2...why not go for 3. SH,EF and RAFALE..???
That way we will be getting the best techs. available in world right now...
What do you say..?

are u being sarcastic? just a passing thought..

well as i understand if the number of planes to be ordered from a particular agency falls below the agreed criteria i.e assume atleast 60 planes for the company to offer TOT.

JMT

 

[hecj]

according to assumption.coins have been given to u.s.and big note will be given to europe.so dont get terrified by this decision guys.we still have to see a lot of drama.

 

[Dash]

but there were 99,i think.

Yes and the rest will be manufactured here with TOT.

 

[hecj]

Yes and the rest will be manufactured here with TOT.

i cant understand TOT.wat is the definition of this ?
do u think u.s or any country will give the tech for all the stuff?

 

[Dash]

According to what I think LCA2 is the bulk production jet type for IAF. We have a recorrd for ordering something in small first and then more. DRDO already orderred GeF404 initially for LCA 1 and they were happy with it so 99 more goes to them in lines with commonality and for further 100 LCAs another 100 Engine.

That means Kaveri will be used for MCA the most, and may be LCAs will get them in MLU.

However 200 engines to be baught from GE, then I think Unkil will be happy with these. MRCA still could fall in hands of Europeans.

 

[Dash]

i cant understand TOT.wat is the definition of this ?
do u think u.s or any country will give the tech for all the stuff?

Yes I am confident about that. As a matter of fact no one will give you 100% TOT, that is for sure. Even French or EADS will not give us 100% TOT. In case of US the TOT will be less, but will meet the requirement *** they will not give us high end Tech TOT but balance it in some low end stuff.

According to some experts that US has not given TOTs to its closest allies in the past, But I think India is slowly gaining and increasing its power and making US understand that its a truely balancing power in Asia. So the US has a strategic reason for giving TOT as well coz we also saved the GE production line which was about to shut.

In other words i will not be worried much if we dont get TOT for just 99 engines. Kaveri can still be progressed with French help or by ourselves.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

the situation is not very clear :

* after 20 engines rest of them build by GTRE under TOT- US nerver share their critical tech. even with their close ally , so it very much low end TOT.

* then the delivery is by 2014 that means it most possibly the EPE version,but then when will be first prototype of MkII came out.


It might further delay of MkII, which means increase the number of MMRCA and MKI.

Also when IAF said that LCA engine is not related to the MMRCA , then there might be a solid reason behind it.

 

[Rank]

India is not Pakistan.. 414 is a good engine and thats why its used in USA's front line fighters and even Gripen..

Pakistan also said something "We are not Iran and Iraq" in 1980z

LOL @ your statment kid

ye tu waqt batayega lol

 

[hecj]

Pakistan also said something "We are not Iran and Iraq" in 1980z

LOL @ your statment kid

ye tu waqt batayega lol

we dont demand aid and put our head under the knife for that aid.so it is true that india is not iran or iraq.

and u have doubrts that iran is better than pakistan today??

the only thing is u offered ur self and u.s making use of it.

 

[sancho]

Dint GE offer TOT within the deal???

and why cant we go with 2 options for our MRCA ? what wud be the reasons for not opting 2 planes? please advise

Because it means higher costs for maintenance, for producing 2 different types of fighters, also less numbers of each means higher unit costs too and lower number of each means also less benefits we can get from the vendors. The big point in MMRCA is the high numbers of fighters we want to buy, 126 is the least number, which could easily go up to 250 for IAF and IN. Add all the spares, weapons...side deals for a service lenght of 30 - 40 years and you will get a huge ammount and that's why everybody wants this deal.

What is this now???????????????????.....

I am ccompletely dissapointed, The RAFALE lobby group is disspointed.
I seriously dont know why DRDO went for GE, the only reason is DRDO already used GE...

Looks like IAF wwill now ask for EPE GE in MRCA for sure if they are ever going for F-18.

Not so fast my friend! Of course this would be a big point for Boeing in MMRCA, but for the Rafale not much has changed, because they wasn't in this engine competition anyway. The real downer here is for EF, because it loses a big advantage and now its disadvantages weighs even higher.
It seems my guess with Rafale, Gripen and F18SH to be shortlisted was pretty good.

Regarding the topic, it confirms what I thought before, that the Shukla article had wrong numbers and the US engine indeed is cheaper. But if that is the only reason why it was chosen (and I will wait for an offical confirmation of MoD, GE, or EJ) I am very disappointed, because the EJ 200 had offered more potential for LCA MK2 and with ToT also more inputs for Kaveri engine.

* then the delivery is by 2014 that means it most possibly the EPE version,but then when will be first prototype of MkII came out.

LCA MK2 is aimed at 2014, that means including all changes (radar, avionics, engine and as some sources say even airframe parts like the intakes and wings), but it has nothing to do with the EPE so far.
If we fund it, we could have it by that time too, so I don't see more delays because of the engine, but the way this development goes, I'm sure there will be other reasons.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

The offer also included redesigning the LCA Tejas to accommodate the GE- F 414. However it was felt that this offer defies the very Air Staff requirement (ASR) for the light weight, small aircraft. GE- F 414 is heavier engine, LCA dimensions will drastically change and it will push back LCA development for at least 3-5 years. Also the past experience dealing with US on LCA weighed heavy on the Indian minds. This time US decides not to cooperate midway, the Tejas project will be non recoverable.

GE with GE F414 Engine is lowest bidder for LCA Mk-2 Alternate Engine | Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion


They offer rediesigning also but it will affect the timeline of LCA and if the bold part came true then it will be the nightmare ...

 

[Tejas-MkII]

LCA MK2 is aimed at 2014, that means including all changes (radar, avionics, engine and as some sources say even airframe parts like the intakes and wings), but it has nothing to do with the EPE so far.
If we fund it, we could have it by that time too, so I don't see more delays because of the engine, but the way this development goes, I'm sure there will be other reasons.

even i am not much concerned with EPE or not , my main concern is if they deliver engine by 2014 then when it will get integrated with LCA.

may be they send some seperate engine of prototype earlierly

Also if it is not EPE then why they will take 4 years to deliver the first engine ....

 

[Dash]

Not so fast my friend! Of course this would be a big point for Boeing in MMRCA, but for the Rafale not much has changed, because they wasn't in this engine competition anyway. The real downer here is for EF, because it loses a big advantage and now its disadvantages weighs even higher.
It seems my guess with Rafale, Gripen and F18SH to be shortlisted was pretty good.

I guessed that later, however the only part that is confusing here is.

1. Is the decision political?
2. Or it is cost driven.
3. Third if any of the above two decisions or both of them were behind the engine choice, where is IAF's Pov. May be the second option suits IAF the most. However Dr Prahalada has said that they have choosen this engine coz IAF wanted a higher thurst engine with better power.

So this makes me think that LCA2 Engine selection and MRCA are actually not that linked as it was thought, else Dr Prahalad's statement could have been different. Lets say he could have said "cost" (as this is what they used when they said who could be the winner), but its not the case here.

Like I said in my previous post. The Engine is just to please Americans and MRCA is on on different track now.

Regarding the topic, it confirms what I thought before, that the Shukla article had wrong numbers and the US engine indeed is cheaper. But if that is the only reason why it was chosen (and I will wait for an offical confirmation of MoD, GE, or EJ) I am very disappointed, because the EJ 200 had offered more potential for LCA MK2 and with ToT also more inputs for Kaveri engine.

I agree with you and even I am disspointed, however I have a thought.
As you can see for LCA2 it was only 99 engine and I dont actually think at this point of time that Eurojet could have given us TOT like they said they will for only 99 engines. Now collectivly with MRCA 126 jets and engines for additional 100 engines could have given us a better hand to bargain and a better deal for them to part the tech with us for Kaveri developement. Now even if they win MRCA they will still not be very comfortable with giving full TOT as its only for 126 fighters. where in this contract the engine itself could have grown to 200 coz LCA is for bulk production.


Something tells me that EFT is actually out of MRCA. because financially it will not be economic for them to give TOT and we cant accept that.

So lets say. Rafale, Gripen and F-18. these are the runners. A lot depends on the US president and french president visit now.

The key here is if Kaveri gets benifited by Snecma then Rafale will beat the F-18 to win MRCA. Coz we still doubt how much of ToT US will give for this engine and other planes and their engines.

from a business POV.