Italy didn't see it coming

[iajj]

Its very sad that india managed to get this issue a big time... 2 kerala fisherman big protest by India and total of 517+ TN fishermen and no Indian govern give a Sh!t about it?

you detained the italians because they were in your territorial water. sri lanka was likewise defending their maritime sovereignty in repelling those indian boats whose activities were an affront to lankan sovereignty as well. don't be a hypocrite and don't be inconsistent and don't be ignorant of the basic diplomatic principles: india is on the moral high ground here with the italian marines, but bullying sri lanka is another matter.

 

[Screambowl]

Moreover it should be seen as a success of Indian foreign policy again, or did anybody really believed we could have put that much pressure on the over political backchannels? Shows what India is capable of and that by playing it cool, without barking around in the media or threatenting with military might.

it should be seen as a success domestically but we still need good relations with Italy. Doing chest thumping is provocative. Plus more over as far as I know about diplomacy, they send back the marines under few conditions agreed by Indian officials. What are those conditions? Well not all of them will be out any time soon. There are too many things which happen back-doors we are aware of only 10%

 

[sancho]

it should be seen as a success domestically but we still need good relations with Italy. Doing chest thumping is provocative. Plus more over as far as I know about diplomacy, they send back the marines under few conditions agreed by Indian officials. What are those conditions? Well not all of them will be out any time soon. There are too many things which happen back-doors we are aware of only 10%

I don't think there are many conditions politicians can give at the moment, since it's a matter of judiciary now, the outcome will be decided by them and not politicians. However, I believe that even if the soldiers will be found guilty, they might be shifted to Italy at the end (after paying compensation or so) and might be imprisioned there. As long justice is be done...
But it's always difficult when it comes to soldiers and their misbehaviours, or mistakes and it is normal that each government will try to protect them as much as they can, which again shows that India has achieved quiet something here. But on the other side, if my last infos are correct our governement did not have included soldiers and police into the new rape laws right? Then one can ask if this hype is only because they are foreigners that did something wrong, while we tend to protect our own people?

 

[canadian icehole]

Just think of economics and large Indian market for foreign products.

Rest you can deduce that. For 2 soldiers, they can't ruin their relations with India.

Given Europe's current economic situation, is it possible that Italy was holding out until India increased it's contribution to the IMF? If so, I would see this as a win-win situation. India's current government get that added boost to it's public image at the home front while Italy get's some kind of bail out. If Italy managed to negotiate for the marines to serve their sentence on Italian soil then Italy would recover some of it's lost pride. I wonder if the Western media attention to India's internal problems are tied to this case.

As for the EU's silence, it may be a way to punish Italy for it's economic mismanagement. As for the US, Italy won't be getting any help from them since they reopened the Amanda Knox case (or was reopening the case Italy's way of getting back at the Americans for their non-support?).

 

[Abingdonboy]

Given Europe's current economic situation, is it possible that Italy was holding out until India increased it's contribution to the IMF? If so, I would see this as a win-win situation. India's current government get that added boost to it's public image at the home front while Italy get's some kind of bail out. If Italy managed to negotiate for the marines to serve their sentence on Italian soil then Italy would recover some of it's lost pride. I wonder if the Western media attention to India's internal problems are tied to this case.

As for the EU's silence, it may be a way to punish Italy for it's economic mismanagement. As for the US, Italy won't be getting any help from them since they reopened the Amanda Knox case (or was reopening the case Italy's way of getting back at the Americans for their non-support?).

This is all just conspiracy nonsense, in this case it is pretty simple what happened. The Marines were returned to Italy and whilst they were there some politicians thought they could make some political capital by making a nationalistic stand against India as the elections where imminent.The Indians responded in a much more vigorous and aggressive manner than the Italians had expected, elections didn't go so well and the pressure started to mount on the decision-makers. In the end it just wasn't worth keeping the Marines so they gave in and returned them to India to face trail.

Then one can ask if this hype is only because they are foreigners that did something wrong, while we tend to protect our own people?

Lol, this is how almost every nation on Earth behaves!

 

[canadian icehole]

This is all just conspiracy nonsense, in this case it is pretty simple what happened. The Marines were returned to Italy and whilst they were there some politicians thought they could make some political capital by making a nationalistic stand against India as the elections where imminent.The Indians responded in a much more vigorous and aggressive manner than the Italians had expected, elections didn't go so well and the pressure started to mount on the decision-makers. In the end it just wasn't worth keeping the Marines so they gave in and returned them to India to face trail.

I disagree. How does caving into India's demands will make the current Italian government appear strong to it's voters? Also, if the current Italian government loses the election then it will be due to their economic reforms and allowing the EU (more specifically Germany) to dictate terms. There's considerable resentment of Germany's heavy handed approach to Europe's economic crisis.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I disagree. How does caving into India's demands will make the current Italian government appear strong to it's voters? .

It doesn't of course!! The initial stunt to say they weren't returning was an attempt to "appear strong". However when the Italian govt's position became so untenable with the Indian media and Govt going so aggressive so quickly, the possibility of Billions of USD in deals being lost to Italy, the highest court in India joining the fray and the international community leaving Italy out in the cold (I'm sure they were counting on international support).

Eventually the Italian govt had no choice other than to return them, returning them was never in the original script!!

 

[Sergi]

I if my last infos are correct our governement did not have included soldiers and police into the new rape laws right? Then one can ask if this hype is only because they are foreigners that did something wrong, while we tend to protect our own people?

I would prefer a civilian court any day over a army court

We deny fundamental rights to our armed forces and police. So it is not too much to give them little cover form a direct line of fire. And excluding them after the act doesn't mean they are free to rape. It's just they can't be directly taken to court.

If they were included in the act we would have seen a lot of false cases registered just to take on security forces.
Don't forget there is no strong punishment for dishonest/fake complaints.

I don't think there are many conditions politicians can give at the moment, since it's a matter of judiciary now, the outcome will be decided by them and not politicians. However, I believe that even if the soldiers will be found guilty, they might be shifted to Italy at the end (after paying compensation or so) and might be imprisioned there. As long justice is be done...

Actually GOI can assure them NOT to award death penalty as the crime itself doesn't not lead to capital punishment. AFAIK the maximum punishment for unintentional murder is 10/12 years. Not even 14 years.

If found guilty its impossible for GOI to shift them to Italy for the sentence. SC court won't allow that. All GOI can do is give them presidential pardon and set them free. ( it's unlikely ) but they can't shift them it will be contempt of court.

 

[animelive]

Good job. About time the SUPERIOR westerns saw a bit of the emerging east

 

[Screambowl]

I don't think there are many conditions politicians can give at the moment, since it's a matter of judiciary now, the outcome will be decided by them and not politicians. However, I believe that even if the soldiers will be found guilty, they might be shifted to Italy at the end (after paying compensation or so) and might be imprisioned there. As long justice is be done...
But it's always difficult when it comes to soldiers and their misbehaviours, or mistakes and it is normal that each government will try to protect them as much as they can, which again shows that India has achieved quiet something here. But on the other side, if my last infos are correct our governement did not have included soldiers and police into the new rape laws right? Then one can ask if this hype is only because they are foreigners that did something wrong, while we tend to protect our own people?

Not many conditions but a few conditions what are they, we are not aware of this. Plus when a citizen is killed by a soldier of a different country, it is seen as an attack on nation and the accused is called as POW or terrorist(in other words) so ultimately no politician would spoil his image. It was always a matter of Judiciary because it was Kerela court who allowed them to leave, so a fault in judiciary has to be rectified by judiciary only right. Or else no one would in future trust the Judiciary.

 

[Dash]

No matter what happened here, I will request people to not see it as a east V/s west story. India won its case because India was right.

 

[sancho]

I disagree. How does caving into India's demands will make the current Italian government appear strong to it's voters? Also, if the current Italian government loses the election then it will be due to their economic reforms and allowing the EU (more specifically Germany) to dictate terms. There's considerable resentment of Germany's heavy handed approach to Europe's economic crisis.

OT, but there is no economical crisis in Europe and no economic reforms either, it's a financial crisis, because many countries have too high depts, therefor financial reforms (less spending, more tax raising...) are needed to get the budgets of these countries in shape again, especially when these countries needs money to be bailed out.

 

[The_magnificent]

thr is a saying in my place, I will tell you . " jab ga*d me nai tha gooda, to kyu jung me kooda" .

 

[Storm Force]

JUST NO GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

India carrys REAL CLOUT in the international circle politically. and economically.

THEY ARE NO USA OR CHINA but stil a very big and important NATION

 

[sancho]

I would prefer a civilian court any day over a army court

We deny fundamental rights to our armed forces and police. So it is not too much to give them little cover form a direct line of fire. And excluding them after the act doesn't mean they are free to rape. It's just they can't be directly taken to court.

If they were included in the act we would have seen a lot of false cases registered just to take on security forces.
Don't forget there is no strong punishment for dishonest/fake complaints.

The punishment might be different, but I disagree that that there should be dedicated systems for acts against civilians, or during peace times. The fact that these matters like rape will be handles in house also increases the chances to downplay or completely to sweep things under the table.
Imo police and forces infact must be not only punished harder in this regard, but must also be trialed in an open public case, since they not only attack another person, but missuse their power, which actually is aimed on protecting others. We all know how many rape cases happens during war and conflict times and, so if India really wanted to set a clear sign against rape, it should have been started by it's forces, down to the common civilian.
I always find it strage (in a good way) to see common people admiring and respecting soldiers when I visit India, because it is completely different here in Germany, where military and soldiers are seen in a bad way generally because of the past. But then again, respect is something that you have to earn yourself, not only by fighting for the countries and the weak during war times, but also by setting up high standards during peace times, but giving them loopholes in this case, just because they are soldiers is for sure not the right way to change Indias mentality towards rape and violence against women.