Italian Secretary-General Defense hails Pakistan Navy

[Ark_Angel]

For helicopters, one route is working with the Turks as they already have a program (10 ton transport plus a heavyweight attack helicopter) in the works, with their own engine and critical parts projects. In fact, they're looking for partners, and Pakistan is a country they've approached. It'd be shared work in terms of funding and production, but an option.

Otherwise, we do what the Turks did with the ATAK and by a project off the shelf with deep ToT, like the AW149 (but with the Safran Aneto instead of GE CT7 engine). In this case, we'd still rely on France and Italy for some parts (engine, etc), but we could manufacture the airframe and possibly even rotors and avionics.

Using Old PDF member mustan Khans favourite Word *BLUNDER*, PAs major blunder was not joining the ATAK program from the Onset. Pakistan was one of the only few countries approached by Turkey to jointly develop and Manufacture T-129s. This would have saved us the Re-Export Headache associated with the American engines as well as helped us take a minor step towards setting up a Helo program for the times to come. When the offer was made, Relations with Americans were also Cordial with a lot of defence equipment in coming from their side to Pakistanis. But then PA decided to wait it out and rejected the offer citing multiple reasons. Barring finance PA didn’t have the trust in Turks to develop something which would out perform its Chinese/Eastern Competitors. A decade down the road the Licence to Re export the Engines is stuck somewhere in D.C derailing the whole program. Indenginization is the future. But not by SoEs. Ask Mian Mansha or Malik Riaz to build you a Tank or a Helo, you’ll be surprised by the Product they’ll deliver. Time to restructure these White elephants. The Enemy has already knocked once on the gate and is standing with a breaching charge to smash it open for the next time.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Snowballs Chance in Hell!

This guy seems to be CNS. So, whose chance is it?

 

[Gryphon]

This guy seems to be CNS. So, whose chance is it?

We have been hearing about Pakistan's interest in medium-to-long range SAM systems like FD-2000 for years now but everytime it seems financial constraints become the obstacle and we are met with disappointment.

Pakistan acquired the ARH seeker technology while developing the Harbah cruise missile.
What are the other challenges/factors that will come into play in the development of Pakistan's indigenous medium-to-long range SAM (Range: 100-150 km)?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

This guy seems to be CNS. So, whose chance is it?

The only thing I'd caution with is that around the time Italy's Secretary-General of Defence met with the CNS, so did the CEO of MBDA Italy.

So, if anything, it seems like MBDA Italy is making the pitch right now, not the other companies (Leonardo, Drass, Elettronica, etc). Hence the speculation on the PN possibly being interested in the Aster-15 or CAMM/CAMM-ER for use on the MILGEM. It could be for other stuff too, like ASW, but I don' think the heads of MBDA Italy would come here just for that, it must be a AAW+AShW+ASW pitch.

 

[Basel]

Most of the Swordfish's configuration is 3rd-party COTS: Leonardo Seaspray 7300/7500 AESA radar, Star SAFIRE EO/IR, Elettronica ESM, etc. It's more or less the same as the Sea Eagle MPA configuration except for the CMS, but we got an alternative CMS via Aerodata AG with the sensor fusion engine and all.

I think the main challenge would be re-implementing the Sea Eagle to a suitably larger aircraft, such as the Bombardier Global 6000, but I'm sure Rheinland Air Service (RAS) is up to the job, as is Leonardo.

As for MBDA. I spoke to MBDA at IDEAS 2018 and they told me they were pitching the Aster-15 for "a future program," which I guess is the J-Class. So, is it a case now where the PN split the J-Class' weapons and sensor work from the shipbuilding work?

So no Aster-30 version?? And is Aster-15 better than CAMM / Sea Captor??

The only thing I'd caution with is that around the time Italy's Secretary-General of Defence met with the CNS, so did the CEO of MBDA Italy.

So, if anything, it seems like MBDA Italy is making the pitch right now, not the other companies (Leonardo, Drass, Elettronica, etc). Hence the speculation on the PN possibly being interested in the Aster-15 or CAMM/CAMM-ER for use on the MILGEM. It could be for other stuff too, like ASW, but I don' think the heads of MBDA Italy would come here just for that, it must be a AAW+AShW+ASW pitch.

CAMM

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

So no Aster-30 version?? And is Aster-15 better than CAMM / Sea Captor??

CAMM

The scope of the MILGEM/Jinnah-class is $350 m per ship ($1.5 b) according to Defence Turkey, but that's likely the upper ceiling. I'm not sure if they'd be able to acquire the Aster-30 under that amount seeing how Qatar's spending at least $500-600 m per Aster 30-equipped ship. Thus, I think the choice for the Jinnah-class is between the HQ-16, CAMM (or CAMM-ER), and Aster-15, in that order.

 

[Basel]

The scope of the MILGEM/Jinnah-class is $350 m per ship ($1.5 b) according to Defence Turkey, but that's likely the upper ceiling. I'm not sure if they'd be able to acquire the Aster-30 under that amount seeing how Qatar's spending at least $500-600 m per Aster 30-equipped ship. Thus, I think the choice for the Jinnah-class is between the HQ-16, CAMM (or CAMM-ER), and Aster-15, in that order.

Which one is better CAMM versions or Aster-15? Can they handle super sonic or hyper sonic AShMs?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Which one is better CAMM versions or Aster-15? Can they handle super sonic or hyper sonic AShMs?

CAMM-ER can apparently go up to 60 km in range.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Guys,You're making useless adrenaline for short-range missiles. The G40 Missile is being developed using a local air / air missile infrastructure, and the gokdogan/perregrine has already undergone significant tests. I think the G40 will not wait too long if we take the Milgems delivery date. The range will be probably 40-45 km.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

The only thing I'd caution with is that around the time Italy's Secretary-General of Defence met with the CNS, so did the CEO of MBDA Italy.

So, if anything, it seems like MBDA Italy is making the pitch right now, not the other companies (Leonardo, Drass, Elettronica, etc). Hence the speculation on the PN possibly being interested in the Aster-15 or CAMM/CAMM-ER for use on the MILGEM. It could be for other stuff too, like ASW, but I don' think the heads of MBDA Italy would come here just for that, it must be a AAW+AShW+ASW pitch.

The more important Dignitary was Guido Crosetto, which is the Head of All Italian Defence Industry. I am sure he had his recommendations.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The more important Dignitary was Guido Crosetto, which is the Head of All Italian Defence Industry. I am sure he had his recommendations.

Absolutely. I think the 'immediate push' was from MBDA Italy, but beyond that, Guildo Crosetto's job is to promote or pitch for Leonardo, Elettronica, Drass, etc.

On that note, it's also worth remembering the PN is also looking for a submarine rescue ship, and there could be a push to promote Fincantieri and Drass (who'd work together on such a project) on that front too. This is, of course, on top of everything else they can market to the PN, e.g., miniature submarines, helicopters, etc.

 

[Basel]

CAMM-ER can apparently go up to 60 km in range.

But PN need a SAM which can handle all type of threats specially supersonic and hypersonic AShM threat. Which one is better in that CAMM versions or Aster-15??

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

But PN need a SAM which can handle all type of threats specially supersonic and hypersonic AShM threat. Which one is better in that CAMM versions or Aster-15??

I think either would be fine for dealing with supersonic ASCM, or at least as fine as the market can offer today.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I think either would be fine for dealing with supersonic ASCM, or at least as fine as the market can offer today.

Offtopic, by SS ASM need an IRST for detection and tracking. If you can detect and track, you can prosecute.

Absolutely. I think the 'immediate push' was from MBDA Italy, but beyond that, Guildo Crosetto's job is to promote or pitch for Leonardo, Elettronica, Drass, etc.

On that note, it's also worth remembering the PN is also looking for a submarine rescue ship, and there could be a push to promote Fincantieri and Drass (who'd work together on such a project) on that front too. This is, of course, on top of everything else they can market to the PN, e.g., miniature submarines, helicopters, etc.

Drass seems to have their own Submarine Rescue Solution, the ST-238. PN may not require a dedicated Submarine rescue ship, but a troop and logistics carrier that can also do submarine rescue and saturation diving.

 

[PAR 5]

Absolutely. I think the 'immediate push' was from MBDA Italy, but beyond that, Guildo Crosetto's job is to promote or pitch for Leonardo, Elettronica, Drass, etc.

On that note, it's also worth remembering the PN is also looking for a submarine rescue ship, and there could be a push to promote Fincantieri and Drass (who'd work together on such a project) on that front too. This is, of course, on top of everything else they can market to the PN, e.g., miniature submarines, helicopters, etc.

No plans to buy a Sub Rescue Ship. So far not enough submarines in the store to justify the purchase. Rather have the Turks or Americans lend theirs. Maybe 15 years down the road PN may re consider when it has around 12+ Submarines in the dock.