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ISRAEL'S PR VICTORY SHAMES NEWS BROADCASTERS

Israel is now trying to claim credit for the social development of Palestine are we? When Palestine advance, it's because of the hard work of the Palestinians, working in the shadow of IDF demolishing their homes every few years.
During 20 years of Arab rule in West Bank and Gaza Palestinian female life expectancy grew by 1 year.
During next 20 years of Israeli rule Palestinian female life expectancy grew by 21 year.

:azn:

By the way, why "hard working Palestinians" did not build a single university or college before 1967? :what:
 
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Tigershark, relying on accounts traceable to disgraced historian Ilan Pappe is enough to show the bankruptcy of Israel-bashers like yourself. Why do you hold on to it so?
 
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What is your reply to the Mavi Marmara Massacre? Have you learned anything yet today?
 
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During 20 years of Arab rule in West Bank and Gaza Palestinian female life expectancy grew by 1 year.
During next 20 years of Israeli rule Palestinian female life expectancy grew by 21 year.

:azn:

By the way, why "hard working Palestinians" did not build a single university or college before 1967? :what:

Right. Palestinians are just peachy living under Israeli rule. A very convincing argument.
 
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Right. Palestinians are just peachy living under Israeli rule. A very convincing argument.
Well I provided u the statistics.

Here for males if u are interested:

During 20 years of Arab rule in West Bank and Gaza Palestinian male life expectancy grew by 2 years (42->44).
During next 20 years of Israeli rule Palestinian male life expectancy grew by 19 years (44->63).

P.S. In case u wonder about the source of my statistics, I used the Palestinian site:

Palestine's Population During The Ottoman And The British Mandate Periods
 
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That means American kill teams executing innocent Afghanis are also "definitive war crimes". Put Bush and Obama on war trials! Justice! Justice! For every nation in the world!

I thought you were all about supporting the underdogs mate? Whats going on in the Srilankan thread eh?
 
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What is your reply to the Mavi Marmara Massacre? Have you learned anything yet today?
The MM incident was discussed in great detail at PDF months ago. The "innocent protesters running a Israeli blockade" were militants who attacked Israelis who boarded the vessel in accordance with international law. The Israelis have video evidence that they were attacked first; in the face of this the Turkish government claimed otherwise, without proof. The small amount of food in the MM was not needed - Israel permits hundreds of tons of supplies to be shipped to Gaza daily - and the medicines in the MM shipment were all expired. Finally, as 500 posts, the ready evidence is that the Israeli military is anything but genocidal.

Properly revised, your question becomes, "And is Israel the victim too when their marines shoot attackers running a Israeli control to bring medical waste and a little food to the palestinians?" And the answer to that is, "Yes."
 
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Israel has not had a "PR victory" in a looong time.

Absurd title.
The MM incident is the best example of how successful anti-Israel propaganda is in recent years. Even video proof can't change the negativity generated by the spin that was but on that incident..
 
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OMG!!! You are such a brainwashed slave! The unarmed protestors on the Mavi Marmara were massacred by Israeli marines assaulting from Helicopters. Israelis spun and spun the evident to portray the assaulting soldiers as victims and all video equipment were confiscated to prevent the protestors from showing the true story.

Watch your mouth Tigershark, making a fool of yourself just proves you`re wrong.
 
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OMG!!! You are such a brainwashed slave! The unarmed protestors on the Mavi Marmara were massacred by Israeli marines assaulting from Helicopters.
The "eyewitness" seems to be one of the non-violent passengers who went below decks early on and didn't see much. Nor was she kept informed of events (like prior radio contact with the Israelis) by the ship's crew. She confirms that the Israelis at first used nonlethal weaponry. There was no "massacre" - people who return home on passenger planes have not been massacred. The rest of what she says - like terming her detention in Israel as "kidnapping" - points to a poor understanding of international law. Yet that is to be expected, because if she understood such things as law and reality on the ground in Gaza she wouldn't be motivated to be on that boat.

I usually don't do videos, but I did watch a few frames here...hmm, doesn't seem to be a conflict with the Israeli account, just a different point of view.
 
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The leaked Palestine Papers show that Israel doesn't want a Palestinian state. They want the occupation to last as long as possible so they can appropriate as much land for Israel as possible. You just have to look at their current rate of settlement expansion and the belligerent response of Israel when called on to stop encroaching on Palestinian lands. Face it: Israel wants all of Palestine.

Secret papers reveal slow death of Middle East peace process | World news | The Guardian
• Massive new leak lifts lid on negotiations
• PLO offered up key settlements in East Jerusalem
• Concessions made on refugees and Holy sites

The biggest leak of confidential documents in the history of the Middle East conflict has revealed that Palestinian negotiators secretly agreed to accept Israel's annexation of all but one of the settlements built illegally in occupied East Jerusalem. This unprecedented proposal was one of a string of concessions that will cause shockwaves among Palestinians and in the wider Arab world.

A cache of thousands of pages of confidential Palestinian records covering more than a decade of negotiations with Israel and the US has been obtained by al-Jazeera TV and shared exclusively with the Guardian. The papers provide an extraordinary and vivid insight into the disintegration of the 20-year peace process, which is now regarded as all but dead.

The documents – many of which will be published by the Guardian over the coming days – also reveal:

• The scale of confidential concessions offered by Palestinian negotiators, including on the highly sensitive issue of the right of return of Palestinian refugees.

• How Israeli leaders privately asked for some Arab citizens to be transferred to a new Palestinian state.

• The intimate level of covert co-operation between Israeli security forces and the Palestinian Authority.

• The central role of British intelligence in drawing up a secret plan to crush Hamas in the Palestinian territories.

• How Palestinian Authority (PA) leaders were privately tipped off about Israel's 2008-9 war in Gaza.

As well as the annexation of all East Jerusalem settlements except Har Homa, the Palestine papers show PLO leaders privately suggested swapping part of the flashpoint East Jerusalem Arab neighbourhood of Sheikh Jarrah for land elsewhere.

Most controversially, they also proposed a joint committee to take over the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount holy sites in Jerusalem's Old City – the neuralgic issue that helped sink the Camp David talks in 2000 after Yasser Arafat refused to concede sovereignty around the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa mosques.

The offers were made in 2008-9, in the wake of George Bush's Annapolis conference, and were privately hailed by the chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, as giving Israel "the biggest Yerushalayim [the Hebrew name for Jerusalem] in history" in order to resolve the world's most intractable conflict. Israeli leaders, backed by the US government, said the offers were inadequate.

Intensive efforts to revive talks by the Obama administration foundered last year over Israel's refusal to extend a 10-month partial freeze on settlement construction. Prospects are now uncertain amid increasing speculation that a negotiated two-state solution to the conflict is no longer attainable – and fears of a new war.

Many of the 1,600 leaked documents – drawn up by PA officials and lawyers working for the British-funded PLO negotiations support unit and include extensive verbatim transcripts of private meetings – have been independently authenticated by the Guardian and corroborated by former participants in the talks and intelligence and diplomatic sources. The Guardian's coverage is supplemented by WikiLeaks cables, emanating from the US consulate in Jerusalem and embassy in Tel Aviv. Israeli officials also kept their own records of the talks, which may differ from the confidential Palestinian accounts.

The concession in May 2008 by Palestinian leaders to allow Israel to annex the settlements in East Jerusalem – including Gilo, a focus of controversy after Israel gave the go-ahead for 1,400 new homes – has never been made public.

All settlements built on territory occupied by Israel in the 1967 war are illegal under international law, but the Jerusalem homes are routinely described, and perceived, by Israel as municipal "neighbourhoods". Israeli governments have consistently sought to annex the largest settlements as part of a peace deal – and came close to doing so at Camp David.

Erekat told Israeli leaders in 2008: "This is the first time in Palestinian-Israeli history in which such a suggestion is officially made." No such concession had been made at Camp David.

But the offer was rejected out of hand by Israel because it did not include a big settlement near the city Ma'ale Adumim as well as Har Homa and several others deeper in the West Bank, including Ariel. "We do not like this suggestion because it does not meet our demands," Israel's then foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, told the Palestinians, "and probably it was not easy for you to think about it, but I really appreciate it".

The overall impression that emerges from the documents, which stretch from 1999 to 2010, is of the weakness and growing desperation of PA leaders as failure to reach agreement or even halt all settlement temporarily undermines their credibility in relation to their Hamas rivals; the papers also reveal the unyielding confidence of Israeli negotiators and the often dismissive attitude of US politicians towards Palestinian representatives.

Last night Erekat said the minutes of the meetings were "a bunch of lies and half truths". Qureia told AP that "many parts of the documents were fabricated, as part of the incitement against the … Palestinian leadership".

However Palestinian former negotiator, Diana Buttu, called on Erekat to resign following the revelations. "Saeb must step down and if he doesn't it will only serve to show just how out of touch and unrepresentative the negotiators are," she said.

Palestinian and Israeli officials both point out that any position in negotiations is subject to the principle that "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" and therefore is invalid without a overarching deal.
 
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The "eyewitness" seems to be one of the non-violent passengers who went below decks early on and didn't see much. Nor was she kept informed of events (like prior radio contact with the Israelis) by the ship's crew. She confirms that the Israelis at first used nonlethal weaponry. There was no "massacre" - people who return home on passenger planes have not been massacred. The rest of what she says - like terming her detention in Israel as "kidnapping" - points to a poor understanding of international law. Yet that is to be expected, because if she understood such things as law and reality on the ground in Gaza she wouldn't be motivated to be on that boat.

I usually don't do videos, but I did watch a few frames here...hmm, doesn't seem to be a conflict with the Israeli account, just a different point of view.

Look at you defending your satellite state after their armed forces kills innocent international protesters. Your ethical compass serious needs a reset for you to be backing the force of murder and destruction. The US moral high ground is a joke for supporting a terrorist state like Israel.

Israel and the Palestinians Through the Looking Glass
The Myths That Underpin the Failure of American Policy in the Middle East
By Ira Chernus

Tuches aufn tish: Buttocks on the table. That’s the colorful way my Yiddish-speaking ancestors said, “Let’s cut the BS and talk about honest truth.” It seems like a particularly apt expression after a week watching the shadow-boxing between President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that brought no tangible progress toward an Israeli-Palestinian peace.

The truth, like the table, is usually hard and uncomfortable. President Obama’s carefully hedged public call for a two-state solution along Israel’s 1967 borders may indeed represent a new step. Maybe it will even prove part of some long-range game plan that will eventually pay off. But here’s the problem: as of now, Obama shows no inclination to back his words with the power the U.S. government could wield. Until he does, those words won’t provoke any change in Israel’s domination of the Palestinians.

And there’s a deeper issue. The influential Israeli columnist Sever Plocker pointed to the heart of the matter: the American president has “unequivocally adopted the essence of the Israeli-Zionist narrative.” Plocker might have said the same about all top American political leaders and the U.S. media as well. The American conversation about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is dominated by the story that most Israelis tell.

-Backward Realities

Tuches aufn tish. Let’s be honest. The Israeli story doesn’t merely distort the truth, it turns the truth -backwards. Eerily enough, its basic claims about the Palestinians more accurately describe the Israelis themselves.

The Israelis might as well be looking in the mirror and talking about themselves when they say things like “They are the aggressors; we’re the victims just defending ourselves.” That’s part of an Israeli-generated myth of insecurity whose premise is that Israel bears all the risk in the conflict with the Palestinians. Obama fed into that myth in his recent “Arab Spring” speech when he called, in effect, for an even swap: the Palestinians would get a state and the Israelis would get security, as if the massively stronger Israelis are the main ones suffering from insecurity.

In the process, he repeated a familiar mantra, “Our commitment to Israel's security is unshakeable,” and offered a vague warning that “technology will make it harder for Israel to defend itself.” Perhaps that was a coded way of hinting that someday some other Mideast nation might have a handful of nuclear weapons -- as if any of them could threaten Israel, which already has as many as 200 nukes and can surely build more.

Obama did make one reference to what he called “the assumption of Palestinian security.” That’s how the Israelis typically phrase their long-standing hope that the Palestinian police will become what Netanyahu once called Israel’s “sub-contractors,” taking over from Israeli soldiers the job of quashing resistance to Israel and its policies. Again, the premise is that Israel bears all the risk.

Yet the Palestinians are far more insecure than the Israelis. Like any victims of colonial military occupation, they’re constantly subject to the threat of death and destruction without notice, at the whim of the Israeli military, and increasingly from Israeli settlers as well. Over the last quarter-century, the conflict has killed roughly eleven Palestinians for every Israeli who died. And yet you’ll never find this line in the speech of an American politician: “Our commitment to Palestine’s security is unshakeable.”

Obama did declare that “every state has the right to self-defense.” In the next breath, however, he demanded that a new Palestinian state must have no army. Would any sovereign nation accept such a demand, especially if its closest neighbor had dominated and pummeled its people for years and possessed by far the most powerful military in the region? Yet the idea of a “demilitarized” Palestinian state is a given in the U.S. and Israel, as if the only conceivable future threat could come from those occupied, not from the former occupier.

The staggering power imbalance between occupier and occupied points to another looking-glass-style distortion that dominates America’s conversation about the issue: the absurd idea that the two parties could negotiate as equals, that the weaker of the two, which has already given up approximately 78% of its territory, must be the one to make the major compromises, and then operate as a nation from a position of utter weakness.

Obama told a meeting of Jewish leaders in private that he knows the truth of the situation: "Israel is the stronger party here… And Israel needs to create the context for [peace] to happen." But as long as his public words reinforce the myth of Israel’s insecurity, the Israelis can safely resist any demands for change.

Staring into the Mirror

The Israelis justify their intransigence with yet another looking-glass claim: “We want peace more than anything, but they have no interest in peace.” Israelis love to repeat a phrase coined decades ago by their foreign minister Abba Eban, speaking about Arab leaders: “They never miss a chance to miss a chance for peace.”

In reality, it’s the Palestinians who should lodge that complaint against Israel. “Israel’s right needs perpetual war” is the way the eminent Israeli intellectual Zeev Sternhell sums up the situation. Netanyahu, like all right-wing Israeli leaders, has in fact built his career on his image as the toughest of hawks when it comes to the Palestinians. With the Israeli electorate shifting steadily rightward in the twenty-first century, that image serves him better than ever. So, even as he pleads his devotion to peace, he shows no interest in actually ending the conflict -- and the creeping Israeli program of ongoing settlement-building in East Jerusalem and the occupied West Bank only guarantees that the conflict will continue.

As it happens, however, the need for an enemy, and so for an ongoing conflict, isn’t restricted to the political right or the settlers. “Our enemies have made us one, and, thus united, we suddenly discover our strength” Theodore Herzl wrote in Zionism’s founding tract, “The Jews’ State.” And perceptive Israeli commentators have been asking for years what would hold Israeli Jews together if they had no common Arab or Palestinian enemy. That is still “the defining question” for all Israelis, according to Avraham Burg, former speaker of the Israeli Knesset: “Can we continue to exist without a perennial adversary, without being victims of persecution?”

Sadly, the answer for most Israelis seems to be: no. A prominent Jewish columnist in the Jerusalem Post said it best: “Israelis get mad when you tell them we don’t have to keep going to war, that we’re strong enough to deter our enemies… People don’t want to hear anything about possibilities for peace… All they want to hear is ein breira, we have no choice, it’s either fight or die.”

Israeli political life suffers from “a real obsession,” according to the editors of Israel’s most respected newspaper, Haaretz, “a sense that we are constantly under attack.. an insanity of persecution.”

That’s an old story, of course. “Israel’s position today is similar to its position after the wars of 1948 and of 1967,” an editorial in Haaretz noted: “The potential for negotiations was there, but the [political] cost was considered too high. Now, too, maintaining the status quo appears to be preferable to making changes that Israelis perceive as threatening, even if they do not necessarily pose a genuine danger.”

The recent Hamas-Fatah reconciliation gave Israelis a new imaginary danger to worry about. The news of Palestinian unity launched a verbal tsunami in Israel, a flood of warnings that a far-right theocratic ideology might easily take control of a Palestinian state. President Obama fed that fear when he said “Hamas has been and is an organization that has resorted to terror; that has refused to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist. It is not a partner for a significant, realistic peace process.”

“Israel obviously cannot be asked to negotiate with a government that is backed by the Palestinian version of al Qaeda,” Netanyahu responded.

It’s just another case of Israelis staring into that mirror. Hamas has, in fact, been moving steadily toward a form of secular nationalism and greater political moderation. Its government in Gaza is busy fending off threats from the true theocrats of the Muslim right, who despise Hamas. The rare volleys of Hamas rockets that now come into Israel are triggered by and responses to Israeli attacks.

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal has been saying for years that he and his party are absolutely willing to accept a two-state solution -- implicitly accepting the permanent existence of Israel -- as long as a majority of Palestinians approve it. Meshaal now speaks of “peace” rather than merely “truce” and views the infamous Hamas charter, calling for the destruction of Israel, as no longer relevant.

When it comes to the all-important question of recognition, it’s Israel that refuses to recognize Hamas as a legitimate party or the Palestinians’ right to be a democratic state and choose their own government. Meanwhile, the Israeli government has been doing exactly what it accuses Hamas of doing -- opening the door to increasingly reactionary, racist, and theocratic laws. “Public opinion polls point to increasing extremism, bordering on racism, in Jews’ opinion of Arabs,” as Haaretz has noted, so “it’s no wonder there is no public pressure on the government to advance the peace process.”

Israel is fast coming under the sway of far-right theocrats, and “ever more Israelis are infected by the symptoms of Messianic thinking: ‘We are right, and the whole world is wrong; hence we must no longer listen to anybody,’” as one Israeli Jewish columnist observed.

Then there’s the upcoming vote in the U.N. General Assembly in September, when Palestine is expected to be granted full status as a nation. In his speech, Obama echoed the Israeli line that the Palestinian push for recognition there will harm chances for peace. In fact the vote would promote the peace process by pushing a nay-saying Israel closer to what it now fears most: finally being forced by irresistible world opinion to negotiate peace rather than become a pariah state.

There’s one last point that Obama and American public discourse get absolutely backwards: the idea that being a friend of Israel’s means endorsing its popular narrative, which offers no more truth than Alice’s looking-glass. Real friends don’t enable their friends to engage in self-destructive behavior. Real friends wouldn’t let them get so drunk on a delusional story that they have no compunctions about driving what might otherwise be a peace process off a cliff.

The U.S. has the power to push the Israelis away from that cliff and head them in a new direction. There’s real truth in the common Israeli joke that the U.S. is “the eight-ton elephant that can sit down anywhere it wishes.”

Yes, Obama can put his tuches anywhere he wants. If he ever feels politically safe enough, he just might put it on the table. Then, Israel might have to leave the looking-glass world and agree to start genuine peace negotiations.
 
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What a shame. Israel needs to stop killing innocent Palestinians. Israel is a terrorist state.

When Israel sets up programs to ensure that all residents are treated equally with respect and care then progress could be possible. Because of the heavy handed treatment of Palestinians by the Jews, the abuse has become standard operating procedure. Of course, Palestinians do fight back and even provoke Israel. However the history between Israelis and Palestinians makes it clear who has been the aggressor
 
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When Israel sets up programs to ensure that all residents are treated equally with respect and care then progress could be possible.
"All residents"...you are conflating Israeli Arabs with Arab Palestinians, are you not?

Because of the heavy handed treatment of Palestinians by the Jews, the abuse has become standard operating procedure. Of course, Palestinians do fight back and even provoke Israel. However the history between Israelis and Palestinians makes it clear who has been the aggressor
I don't think you know what your are talking about. If you do, you'll have to show me. No videos, no blind quoting of empty articles a la Sharkey; you'll have to write it yourself.
 
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