Israel’s Air Force Capabilities to Increase 400%

[Falcon29]

I'm glad you are so pro-American. I am too. But I am a military professional who does not let something like patriotism or any personal views I may have for a country, influence my military assessment of them. It's like my take on the Vietnam War. I absolutely loath communism and would love to have seen the Republic of Vietnam achieve victory...but they and America were defeated. It was a hard defeat to take, but it was due only to our own failures and the veracity, bravery, and quality of our enemies there. They had a strategic plan for victory, and we did not. That is not a reflection on the quality of our troops there. Even during the Tet offensive, America handed them their butts, but in the end, the NVA and VC knew what they had to do to achieve victory...and we did not.

See, my views have little to do with how I may "feel" about the parties involved.

I see what you mean.

I also don't have a thing for communism but in the modern world don't see any competition between the two. That era was over. I have a difficult time justifying some of our military campaigns as I see no need for senseless deaths. Most 'wars' today are powerful nations destroying weak peoples.

So I can't sympathize with the modern campaigns which I believe aren't about threats.

All I wanted to say is that you should see them for their selves. It's not 1948 anymore, in Israel the notion that they survive or be defeated no longer exists. There isn't discipline or courage amongst them. I don't know why people still believe this. Rather today there is arrogance and acceptance of massive violence against weak people. They rely on massive air assaults, other than that they have no use as a military. Just look at their laughable training. The point is they've become the bullying type, they don't face any threats except small ones and don't fight for survival. Today it's about going an assaults to score political points or further demoralize the Palestinian people. This can't be equated to 'fighting for their survival'. When in reality they're destroying what's left of Palestine.

If somebody actually set out to dismantle the state of Israel it could easily be done. Thew Jewish people don't face any extinction either, there are tens of millions outside of Israel and the 7 million in Israel won't be affected. Only the state would be rid of. If such a scenario occurred.

 

[Desertfalcon]

That's good, you don't need to care. However, you don't need to portray yourself as a Pro-Palestinian since it's probably a joke judging by some of your posts. You're only 'Pro-Arab' since some select Arab nations have good relations with the US and allow them to take lead in the I/P conflict. Try to look at conflict from a POV that doesn't take into account national politics or opinion.

I'm not trying to "portray" myself as anything. I simply state what I believe. Your arrogance that someone has an opinion different than yours, makes you assume that it can't be a real one.

Clearly I'm not. Because I don't give the lies here a free pass doesn't make me irrational. When somebody claims Israel was defending itself against Gaza. That's borderline evil if you take into context what occurred and look at all the details. I will refute such nonsense and that propaganda has no place in this forum.

If that's true, then it's a good thing I didn't make any claim about "Israel defending itself against Gaza". I don't know which poster you may be referring to, but it certainly wasn't me...unless you are just trying to put words in my mouth to make it easier for you to argue with some mythical "me".

They got intelligence, and yes the US withdrew assistance to Egypt.

Egypt was being assisted and heavily supplied by the USSR, not America. You are ignorant of the facts. America had no "assistance" to withdraw.

Nope, you're like those people who gloat over Israeli assaults on defenseless people and Mossad operations against defenseless people. Israel hasn't gone up against a nation in the past four decades. Don't over exaggerate them.

I have not "gloated" over anything. I certainly have not over Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. I can only conclude one of two things. You either have not actually read what I have written, or you are simply lying about what I have. In either case, you are not worth responding to. I don’t care to waste any more time on you.

 

[Falcon29]

I'm not trying to "portray" myself as anything. I simply state what I believe. Your arrogance that someone has an opinion different than yours, makes you assume that it can't be a real one.

That's not what I'm about. I've heard people here tell us they're 'Pro-Palestinian' yet justify everything Israel does and point the finger at the Palestinians.

That's not an opinion related issue, that's nonsense. I'm just curious at to how you're pro-Palestinian.

If that's true, then it's a good thing I didn't make any claim about "Israel defending itself against Gaza". I don't know which poster you may be referring to, but it certainly wasn't me...unless you are just trying to put words in my mouth to make it easier for you to argue with some mythical "me".

Not you, some people in general.

Egypt was being assisted and heavily supplied by the USSR, not America. You are ignorant of the facts. America had no "assistance" to withdraw.

Egypt was attacked unprovoked while they're military assets were stationary. The USSR didn't make the contribution it needed to. Europe and Israel all teamed up against Egypt and 67 was an offensive assault aimed at occupying Arab territories. Primarily it was about Gaza and the West Bank. The USS Liberty also overheard Israeli commanders opposing a ceasefire and ordering the occupation of the West Bank and Golan Heights. That's why thirty four American sailors were killed by Israel if I remember correctly. This was hardly a defensive war.

I have not "gloated" over anything. I certainly have not over Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. I can only conclude one of two things. You either have not actually read what I have written, or you are simply lying about what I have. In either case, you are not worth responding to. I don’t' care to waste any more time on you.

I'm assuming you're on of those people. Not accusing you of anything. Although I'm pretty sure you're far from pro-Palestinian. Whenever you randomly get this: "I believe Israel has the right to defend itself'. That's a warning that someone is probably pro-Israel since they make an assertion out of nowhere as if the discussion is about destroying Israel. That's funny.

 

[anonymus]

There's nothing emotional in this. I could care less to admit if their was a 'superb' victory or not. We would admit such a 'superb' defeat had it occurred. Yet, you clearly are confused about what took place in 1967. Egyptian military branch was in the middle of chilling around while the unexpected attack occurred.

This is not correct. Egypt was bent on attacking Israel in 1967 and this fact was publicly known to everyone.

Probably you are unaware of the fact that after 1965 war, Israel-Egypt border was guarded by peacekeeping force from India under UN. General Nassar gave an ultimatum to U-Thant who was UN secretary general at that time demanding immediate removal of UNPKF failing which he could not ensure that UNPKF would not be attacked.

It was clear from these moves that Egypt is about to attack Israel.

 

[Falcon29]

This is not correct. Egypt was bent on attacking Israel in 1967 and this fact was publicly known to everyone.

Probably you are unaware of the fact that after 1965 war, Israel-Egypt border was guarded by peacekeeping force from India under UN. General Nassar gave an ultimatum to U-Thant who was UN secretary general at that time demanding immediate removal of UNPKF failing which he could not ensure that UNPKF would not be attacked.

It was clear from these moves that Egypt is about to attack Israel.

@Frogman

Could you give the link to the thread where you went over this with somebody?

 

[anonymus]

They got intelligence, and yes the US withdrew assistance to Egypt. Although about military hardware that came from Europe. Egypt wasn't doing what Israel or the pro-israel crowd were accusing them of doing. They did something very reasonable within their borders.

This is another inaccuracy.

US had withdrawn assistance to Egyptian a long time ago and it had nothing to do with Israel.

Nassar wanted US to fund, directly or through World bank , Aswan dam to which US agreed ,but with encumbering conditions on end usage of weapons which were part of package deal , but when Nassar nationalized suez they withdrew assistance. Before that Nassar had approached Soviet to finance Aswan dam to which they agreed, and financed Aswan dam by tune of $1.2Bn at 2% interest rate.

 

[Falcon29]

This is another inaccuracy.

US had withdrawn assistance to Egyptian a long time ago and it had nothing to do with Israel.

Nassar wanted US to fund, directly or through World bank , Aswan dam to which US agreed ,but with encumbering conditions on end usage of weapons which were part of package deal , but when Nassar nationalized suez they withdrew assistance. Before that Nassar had approached Soviet to finance Aswan dam to which they agreed, and financed Aswan dam by tune of $1.2Bn at 2% interest rate.

Nassar already offered the Europeans a deal on the Suez yet they insisted on total control and benefit. That's why he nationalized it. I don't know why we're discussing 1956 in this thread. It's because the same propaganda about the 67 war being a defensive war. By 'defensive' ie. destroying Egypt. I'm not wasting my time going over the same thing already as @Frogman has already explained this in another thread.

 

[anonymus]

Nassar already offered the Europeans a deal on the Suez yet they insisted on total control and benefit. That's why he nationalized it. I don't know why we're discussing 1956 in this thread. It's because the same propaganda about the 67 war being a defensive war. By 'defensive' ie. destroying Egypt. I'm not wasting my time going over the same thing already as @Frogman has already explained this in another thread.

Because it proves that your assertion of US withdrawing assistance is false. After 1956, USSR was primary benefactor of Egypt. US assistance was curtailed in 1956 itself.

 

[Falcon29]

Because it proves that your assertion of US withdrawing assistance is false. After 1956, USSR was primary benefactor of Egypt. US assistance was curtailed in 1956 itself.

Big deal, the discussion was about the offensive Israeli assault in 1967.

 

[Mav3rick]

Again the same sarcasm shows your mentality and inability to debate based on facts. For you Tejas will always be a paper tiger till it beats F16 (whatever version PAF is flying) in actual combat. Till then you will always call it a paper tiger and run away from debating based on known specs because you know you can't win there.

Listen, I think it is unfair to compare 2 Jets when 1 of them is not even officially inducted. But all my posts are in on the same wavelength as yours. LCA is a joke until it materialises and proves its mettle. Even IAF and IN are bing forced to make purchases let alone a country like Israel that is decades ahead of anything India can offer.

Same mentality by which Ayub Khan believed that a "Hindu India" will be defeated by a "Martial race" arabic gene Muslim Pakistan in 1965. Same mentality which Musharraf showed during 1999 believing that IAF will not use airforce in Kargil. Same mentality by ISI thought they could control terrorists to win proxy war in Kashmir.

You know, if I were an Indian, thank God that I am not, but hypothetically I would avoid all talk of 1965 because at worse I, a country 8 times bigger than Pakistan and with a much larger military, was forced into a stalemate. That alone is enough to put any other countryman at shame......just not Indians! Not just that, in 1999 the only thing Musharraf had not calculated was a crumbling Prime Minister otherwise your 10 squadrons of IAF and 35k soldiers were unable to dislodge 4-5k fighters.

And ISI gave up the proxy war in Kashmir back in 1999 when Musharraf assumed power, and you took up the opportunity to pick up the same in Baluchistan and today the whole country through TTP and Afghanistan despite our sincerest efforts, under Musharraf, to solve Kashmir issue permanently through dialogue and negotiation.

P.S. What happened to the cold start doctrine and precision strikes? Perhaps it's time for LCA to get back to ground.

Please understand that this rotten mentalityof you and your military leaders of underestimating your adversary has played a huge role in taking Pakistan to where it is now. Still if you want to underestimate Tejas or believe that it is better only on paper, it is your peril and good for us.

You know what should shut you up nice and good? It is the fact that half of Kashmir is still with Pakistan.....a country that is many many times smaller in size, military and resources!!