What's new

Israeli strike on Iran's nuke plan 'imminent'

What I don’t understand who authorize Israel to attack anyone.
No one can make such 'authorization'. What you speak of is properly called 'support'. In seeking such support, you are essentially asking others for moral validation of your grievance, which can result in posting a verbal complaint at the international level such as a UN platform, or in the worst case scenario you commit to a military response regarding your grievance.

For a military response, absence of support does not automatically equate to the same type of response from those who withheld their support for your case. Either they cannot or will not. No matter what their response to your unilateralism, it is the reasons why they did not response in kind despite their withholding of support for your grievance that really matters. The Arabs fear Iran more than they fear Israel. They will issue all sorts of 'condemnations' upon Israel after the attacks but behind closed doors, conference calls will be held thanking the Jews for setting Iranian nuclear weapons ambitions back a few more years. It is a front everyone knows how to play. Did you know that Iran accepted Israeli assistance during the Iraq-Iran War? Israel worried more about Iraq than Iran back then.

If they do this mistake this will defiantly bring chaos to that region.
That has been said many times. Recently with US about overthrowing Saddam Hussein. Money talks and oil money talks quite well. None will come to Iran's aid.
 
.
Man u really dont know the state of Israel:disagree:.....trust me, they are one determined nation with one determined army. Iran is a big country but that is not an obstacle as far as modern warfare is concerned. Also Israel will have the laxury of indirect support from international community if they are attacking Iran's nuclear plants.

How capable is Iran's armed forces by the way?? show me their combat success rate in conventional and surgical strikes.

I agree that Iran's Defense Force is not the most professional force around. But, the size matters. Iran is a huge country with a lot of resources. Which means they rely mostly on local resources. Which mean they are in position to take action against International Community( blocking Oil Transit Route).

Finding Iran's Nuclear Assets and destroying them will take a lot of Air Born effort on part of Israel alone which it cannot do alone.
 
.
I agree that Iran's Defense Force is not the most professional force around. But, the size matters. Iran is a huge country with a lot of resources. Which means they rely mostly on local resources. Which mean they are in position to take action against International Community( blocking Oil Transit Route).

Finding Iran's Nuclear Assets and destroying them will take a lot of Air Born effort on part of Israel alone which it cannot do alone.

Iran attacking international shipping. would simply take away any sympathy it would have gotten from being attacked. It would also unleash far greater devastation to it's infrastructure. instead of just having it's nuclear facilities attacked. It would lose most if not all it's major military bases. As well as refineries, and naval forces, military manufacturing facilities.

could it do some damage to gulf area ships? yes of course but in the end they would lose big time.

Chavez would love it though. the price of oil would sky rocket for awhile.
 
.
Iran attacking international shipping. would simply take away any sympathy it would have gotten from being attacked. It would also unleash far greater devastation to it's infrastructure. instead of just having it's nuclear facilities attacked. It would lose most if not all it's major military bases. As well as refineries, and naval forces, military manufacturing facilities.

could it do some damage to gulf area ships? yes of course but in the end they would lose big time.

Right you are, that would be a PR disaster, the last thing you want to do when you are attacked. :no:

The interesting thing is, how would Iran retaliate? both near its home and away? Near its home waters for example, would it block the Straits of Hormuz?? I dont think that serves their purpose!!
 
.
Assume Israel has the legs for the mission for now. Iranian underground facilities are not necessarily a positive as Israel can make accessiblity an issue. For speculation's sake, and never mind US internal politics on the matter, if the US military gets involved, we can make accessibility nearly impossible for those underground facilities with our 'bunker buster' bombs. We do not need to destroy, just physically isolate them.

surprisingly, where would u get the exact location from reagarding nuclear installations of iran???. dont tell me it would be ur intelligence :no:
 
.
Right you are, that would be a PR disaster, the last thing you want to do when you are attacked. :no:

The interesting thing is, how would Iran retaliate? both near its home and away? Near its home waters for example, would it block the Straits of Hormuz?? I dont think that serves their purpose!!

Blocking the Straits of Hormuz will provoke American military retaliation and Iran's military will get smashed. The only retaliation they can do is asymmetrical...let Hezbollah loose again.
 
.
1. Israel has the most advanced military in the ME and it has American logistical support in case of conflict.
2. The Arab rulers hate/fear Iran more than they hate Israel. They will gladly provide flyover rights to Israeli jets, privately, and make silly condemnations publicly.
3. The Zionist-dominated global media will always provide PR cover for Israel. They can detonate a nuke in Iran and get away with it.
4. An Israeli attack on Iran would be a gift to Ahmedinijad. It would unite Iran as never before, and Iran will recover and resume it's nuclear activities. China and Russia will see to that. Hopefully Pakistan can, um, lose some documents which may end up in Iranian hands.
5. Iran cannot stop an Israel attack and has never claimed that ability. What they have promised is a vigorous response. And retaliation can come in many, many ways. Years later. In unexpected places.

Bottom line, as long as Israel continues to occupy stolen land, it can never rest in peace. A thief must always sleep with one eye open.
 
.
1. Israel has the most advanced military in the ME and it has American logistical support in case of conflict.
2. The Arab rulers hate/fear Iran more than they hate Israel. They will gladly provide flyover rights to Israeli jets, privately, and make silly condemnations publicly.
3. The Zionist-dominated global media will always provide PR cover for Israel. They can detonate a nuke in Iran and get away with it.
4. An Israeli attack on Iran would be a gift to Ahmedinijad. It would unite Iran as never before, and Iran will recover and resume it's nuclear activities. China and Russia will see to that. Hopefully Pakistan can, um, lose some documents which may end up in Iranian hands.
5. Iran cannot stop an Israel attack and has never claimed that ability. What they have promised is a vigorous response. And retaliation can come in many, many ways. Years later. In unexpected places.

Bottom line, as long as Israel continues to occupy stolen land, it can never rest in peace. A thief must always sleep with one eye open.

Finally some common sense in this thread. To put it bluntly, it is a LOSE-LOSE-LOSE-FOR-ALL proposition if Zionist Regime attacks the Islamic Regime. :cheers: It won't stop at conventional warfare.
 
.
1. Israel has the most advanced military in the ME and it has American logistical support in case of conflict.
2. The Arab rulers hate/fear Iran more than they hate Israel. They will gladly provide flyover rights to Israeli jets, privately, and make silly condemnations publicly.
3. The Zionist-dominated global media will always provide PR cover for Israel. They can detonate a nuke in Iran and get away with it.
4. An Israeli attack on Iran would be a gift to Ahmedinijad. It would unite Iran as never before, and Iran will recover and resume it's nuclear activities. China and Russia will see to that. Hopefully Pakistan can, um, lose some documents which may end up in Iranian hands.
5. Iran cannot stop an Israel attack and has never claimed that ability. What they have promised is a vigorous response. And retaliation can come in many, many ways. Years later. In unexpected places.

Bottom line, as long as Israel continues to occupy stolen land, it can never rest in peace. A thief must always sleep with one eye open.

Reason #2 hate/fear part, any1 cares to explain?
 
.
Reason #2 hate/fear part, any1 cares to explain?

One reason is ethnic difference. Arabs v/s Persians.
Second reason is religion. Arabs are mostly Sunni. Iranians Shia.
Third reason is regional dominance.

I think the enmity is mostly at the government level. I don't know how ordinary Arabs and Persians feel about each other.
 
.
Blocking the Straits of Hormuz will provoke American military retaliation and Iran's military will get smashed. The only retaliation they can do is asymmetrical...let Hezbollah loose again.

they could fire their long range rockets to. Remains to be seen how effective that would be though since Israel has a lot of anti ballistic missile tech now.
 
.
surprisingly, where would u get the exact location from reagarding nuclear installations of iran???. dont tell me it would be ur intelligence :no:

most of the nuclear facilities have been declared to I.A.E.A. (international atomic energy agency). So we know where most are. I am sure there are a few that we do not know of though. the big problem is their main facility is deep underground and would probably require multiple hits with a bunker penetrating bombs. Or a penetrating nuclear bomb. Probably the U.S. is the only one capable of hitting it effectively. several B-2's using JDAM equipped bunker busters and hitting the same spot repeatedly. would most likely do the job.

there is a larger bunker buster in development that would not require multiple hits. http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5711SE20090802

 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
There will be no Israeli infantry involved. I cannot see how anyone could come to that speculation.

Gambit that was my point !

For all practical purposes Israel and US will avoid a old school infantry assault, where as It will be Iran's resolve to some how bring things to that point.

Once it gets to that, dynamics will change in Iran's favor I think.
 
.
surprisingly, where would u get the exact location from reagarding nuclear installations of iran???. dont tell me it would be ur intelligence :no:
No surprises at all. There are several crucial points of production in any nuclear refinement process that Israel could target. Of course their potential delays in the production line will differ.

On the front end of the production line are the mining and conversion facilities. Ore production is at the Estafahan Nuclear Technology Research Center (ENTC). Another R/D facility that provides continuous support for the miniaturization process important for warhead builds is the Tehran Nuclear Research Center (TNRC). Another good target is the Natanz centrifuge facility. Centrifuges spinning at 60k+ rpm cannot be disturbed by voltage spikes or seismological activities. Both can be produced by exploding bombs. Industrial scale activities and facilities such as mining cannot be hidden. The world knows their locations, least of all thru google.maps, eh?

At the Estafahan facility, the enrichment processes that turn raw uranium into gaseous uranium, uranium hexaflouride (UF6), is vulnerable. The processes are nominally circular. Raw gas is looped until the final product is about %19 U235 by weight. To produce electricity, %5-19 enrichment level will work and there is an inverse relationship between size and concentration, or enrichment level. The point that attracts global, and potentially hostile, attention is %20 enrichment because that level of U235 concentration is conducive for an uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction. Deployable nuclear weapons must be at %90 enrichment in a chunk of uranium in order to be fitted into a modern warhead assembly. Little Boy destroyed Hiroshima with 60kg of total uranium quantity and look up the size of that bomb. For limited space consideration, nuclear reactors at sea uses %90 enrichment level, the same as nuclear missile warheads.

A 'warhead' is not the same as an explosive nuclear device. The Manhattan Project that gave US Fat Man and Little Boy originally had each explosive device the size of a room. What we call 'weaponization' is when we refine the components into a deliverable package. War time necessities demanded that once Little Boy's components were able to be fitted into a package that could be fitted into a B-29's bomb bay, the weaponization process ends for that particular bomb. Higher than %20 uranium enrichment level is a crucial part of the weaponization process and IF the requirement is to have a missile package, it will take longer to achieve %90 enrichment level for any weight of uranium and longer to refine the components into a missile warhead. Destruction or severe damage to the refinement facility will set Iran back who knows how many years but it will be years to rebuild including the time trying to find anyone who will sell those refinement equipments again.

For the Natanz centrifuge facility, the IAEA's estimate has about 1,200 centrifuges above ground as initial or 'seeder' enrichment line for the unconfirmed tens of thousands centrifuges below ground in hardened containment. Centrifuges spins at the minimum of 60k rpm and at that speed special metals are required to withstand rotational stresses. The special metal for the centrifuges is called 'maraging steel'...

Maraging steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Large quantity of purchase of maraging steel will attract attention. That is why Saddam Hussein's chief nuclear scientist, Mahdi Obeidi, bought them in the black market through unscrupulous European connections who knew exactly what Iraq wanted to do with the alloy.

USCC - Testimony of Milhollin Page
3. Maraging steel

Maraging steel is a high strength steel used to make solid rocket motor cases, propellant tanks, and interstages for missiles. Like carbon fibers, it is used to make centrifuge rotors for enriching uranium for nuclear weapons. In 1986, a Pakistani-born Canadian businessman tried to smuggle 25 tons of this steel out of the United States to Pakistan’s nuclear weapon program. He was sentenced to prison as a result. Maraging steel has been controlled for export since January 1981.

This steel is produced by companies in France, Japan, Russia, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States and it meets all the criteria for “mass market status.” Several steel companies list maraging steel on the Internet and can produce maraging steel in multi-ton quantities. Over the telephone, two American companies and one British company explained to my staff how to order 25 ton quantities with delivery in less than a month. Maraging steel is bundled and shipped much like stainless steel, which it closely resembles.

Magnetic bearings are needed for effective centrifuge operations...

Magnetic bearing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A magnetic bearing is a bearing which supports a load using magnetic levitation. Magnetic bearings support moving machinery without physical contact, for example, they can levitate a rotating shaft and permit relative motion without friction or wear. They are in service in such industrial applications as electric power generation, petroleum refining, machine tool operation and natural gas pipelines. They are also used in the Zippe-type centrifuge [1] used for uranium enrichment. Magnetic bearings are used in turbomolecular pumps where oil-lubricated bearings are a source of contamination. Magnetic bearings support the highest speeds of any kind of bearing; they have no known maximum relative speed.
Any kind of voltage instability will make a centrifuge spin out of control and disrupt the particular 'stage' and the uranium gas for that stage will have to be 're-stage' to another group. That can be time consuming.

So just for the front end of Iran's nuclear weapons program we already have several points of attack that would definitvely have negative consequences for the program. The extent of those negative consequences, time wise for rebuilding, is of course a variable. Severe damages to the mining point will not be difficult, will maximize Iran's setback over time, but does nothing to delay the current uranium flow. Severe damages to the refinement/enrichment point will be more difficult to achieve but would have an immediate stoppage effect on the program. The cost to rebuild will be high with increased damaged or destroyed centrifuges and more resources will be diverted to further hardened the facility.

At the back end of the weapons program will be the plutonium use to make a nuclear warhead. Plutonium is the product of uranium reactors. These nuclear weapons require the services of a heavy water reactor running plutonium-239 and/or -240. Heavy water, like maraging steel, is under IAEA's watch list. The Arak plant is a viable target. The Bushehr plant is not as viable because it is already under heavy IAEA supervision with the Russian's cooperation since it is their responsbility to remove the spent plutonium from Iran. Plus the plutonium produced there is not as high quality since Bushehr is light water.

Bushehr - Iran Nuclear Reactor
In January 1995, Russia and Iran signed a contract under which Russia would provide one VVER-1000 (aka WWER-1000) 950-1,073 MWe (electrical) light water reactor at Bushehr.
That leave Arak...

Arak - Iran Special Weapons Facilities
Heavy water was used to moderate the nuclear chain reaction in one type of nuclear reactor, that could be used either for civilian power production or to produce bomb materials. The nuclear reactor then under construction at Bushehr does not use heavy water, nor did existing Iranian research reactors need it in amounts that would justify construction of such a facility.
This is why no one in the defense and nuclear business really believe Iran is pursuing nuclear technology solely for energy related national issues. Unlike ships at sea, space is not an issue on land and less than %20 uranium enrichment is more than adequate for Iran's energy needs and Iran is an oil export to boot. Plutonium separation from spent fuel is good for either nuclear weapons build or R/D. Iranians can lie to the world with a straight face about what to do with the Arak plutonium all they want. None will believe the mullahs. Who will after seeing all those Photochopped missile launches?

GBU-39/B, GBU-40/42/B Small Diameter Bomb I/II
The cited blast radius is 26 ft (cf 82 ft with 2,000-lb JDAM). Boeing claim the ability to penetrate more than 5 ft of steel reinforced concrete making the SDB competitive against the BLU-109/B for many targets.

The SDB will be most effective in the urban and broader close air support, battlefield interdiction, Destruction of Enemy Air Defences (DEAD) lethal suppression and counter-air strike airfield attack roles. Against soft skinned vehicles and structures, armour, point emplacements, runways, aircraft shelters and SAM/SPAAG systems this weapon will be highly lethal.

Where the SDB will be less than effective is against deep / hardened bunkers, large infrastructure targets, large buildings, industrial plant, bridges, large trench systems, vehicle parks, infantry on the move and other area or large point targets. These remain the domain of larger specialised bunker busting weapons, or large explosive bombs such as the Mk.83/BLU-110 (1,000 lb), Mk.84/BLU-117/BLU-119 (2,000 lb), BLU-109/116/118 (2,000 lb), BLU-113/122 (5,000 lb).
Despite Natanz's centrifuges being deeper underground than the penetrative power of a single SDB, do not forget that with Osirak using 'dumb' bombs, Israeli pilots managed to deliver sequential bombs into a single opening on the dome at Osirak. Explosive force, like water and electricity, always seek the path of least resistance. The delivery of these 'dumb' bombs into a single opening mean for each bomb, there is only one small least resistive path, maximizing the power of each bomb to destroy in a confined area.

8343693af23462dcd47d4dc7d6e655fc.jpg

One SDB after another can explosively 'drill' thru the hardened concrete. Once inside, any bomb can create sufficient concussive force against the walls to initiate and possibly collapse of the chamber that house these centrifuge stages. The SDBs can also destroy and damage a good deal of these centrifuges. At the same time, another attack force, also using SDBs, can strike the Estafahan mining facility, destroying some and damaging other equipments. The Arak plutonium facility is an option as without uranium fuel, no plutonium can be extracted. However, we cannot not rule out the possibility that some uranium fuel have been processed in secret and the plutonium extract hidden elsewhere. This could constitute a later date threat for Israel.

The F-16s will be the main ground strike aircrafts. Protection escorts will be F-15s and they can also be fitted with SDBs, although in lesser loads. If the Israelis encounter Iranian fighters, the F-15s can discard their SDBs and engage the Iranians. If no Iranian fighters, the F-15s can deliver their SDBs on the planned ground targets for good measure. The Israelis are willing to lose men over this and the attack will be successful.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom