Israeli officers face Turkish trial

[TheCommander]

We are not European, don't compare us with their maturity.

Are you heard something like "Free choice" ? Secular system's mission is just educate the youth, not abuse their minds with religious stuff, when they become mature enough, they will follow their own path, but since I had similar conservations before, I know how its hard to convince Islamist that abusing the mind of youth is not a good thing, or Atheists are not really "evil".

The USA is a secular country. Do you have any idea when the parents start to teach Christianity to their kids?

Another point, do you really believe or think that Turkiye the secular country allows parents to teach whatever they believe or whatever they want their kids to learn?

I am the one who is responsible my kid and I am the only one who can decide what to teach my kid. If our country is really a secular country then It is NOT BUSINESS of a SECULAR COUNTRY to tell me what I can teach or what I cannot teach to my kid.

I only agree with you on "Free Choice". But the strict secular Turkey did not allow people to choose whatever they believe, however they live. Some secular dogs thought and still think that secularism means to not allow Islam anywhere in the society. Unfortunately, we saw that women who used headscarf were not allow to continue their education in the universities. The parents were not allow to teach Islam to their kids until their kids start high school. The secular government kept and still keeps a record of people who are expressed themselves as religious person to fire or jail them someday. And those people were fired because they were praying daily from the army and other institutions, because their wives were using headscarf and this was enough to fire them!!!

I refuse all this nonsense secularism BS.

 

[BordoEnes]

Aim of that ? choice of who ? kids ?

Because there is some eduction in the teachings of islam doesnt neccesary means they are 'Forced' to be a muslim, Just like Islamic teachings the Turkish Eduction also has biology which ofcourse comes with the evolution theory and all. Turkey is still a secularist state regardless of what you claim.

 

[BronzePlaque]

Aim of that ? choice of who ? kids ?

What do you mean by aim of that? What are we discussing for an hour?

Choice of parents, of course

 

[Targon]

Abuse your kid's mind as much as you want in your house, sent him to quran lessons, make him learn prayers, but its NOT the state job to abuse the minds of kids.

Aim is of course "the religious generation", lets cleanse the Turkey from evil Atheists !

As I said in the beginning , I know how Islamists sees it as natural and how its hard to convince them that its wrong.

 

[BordoEnes]

Of course raising religious children is not a threat to Secular system but it's not -shouldn't be- the business of Prime Minister, Especially PM of a secular country.

Not true, I many western nations such as Spain there is eduction in the teaching of Christianity but doesnt neccasary mean they are forced to become christians.

Of course raising religious children is not a threat to Secular system but it's not -shouldn't be- the business of Prime Minister, Especially PM of a secular country.

Not true, I many western nations such as Spain there is eduction in the teaching of Christianity but doesnt neccasary mean they are forced to become christians.

 

[BronzePlaque]

Of course raising religious children is not a threat to Secular system but it's not -shouldn't be- the business of Prime Minister, Especially PM of a secular country.

Well i agree on that one..But the essence of this discussion was about "is raising religious children a threat to secularism or not"..I dont see as a threat, but as you said the decision should be given by parents..Thats whole another point tho

Abuse your kid's mind as much as you want in your house, sent him to quran lessons, make him learn prayers, but its NOT the state job to abuse the minds of kids.

Aim is of course "the religious generation", lets cleanse the Turkey from evil Atheists !

As I said in the beginning , I know how Islamists sees it as natural and how its hard to convince them that its wrong.

I am not an Islamist..I am proud Muslim and Secular..Dont label people just like that

 

[TheCommander]

Of course raising religious children is not a threat to Secular system but it's not -shouldn't be- the business of Prime Minister, Especially PM of a secular country.

I completely agree with you on this.

 

[BordoEnes]

Abuse your kid's mind as much as you want in your house, sent him to quran lessons, make him learn prayers, but its NOT the state job to abuse the minds of kids.

Aim is of course "the religious generation", lets cleanse the Turkey from evil Atheists !

As I said in the beginning , I know how Islamists sees it as natural and how its hard to convince them that its wrong.

I have talked with many people like you with always talks on how Erdogan is an Extremist or Islamist. Everything what he does is always 'Threath' to secularist republic. Blablabla get over this mentality you thought yourself, Because there is some teaching of Islam doesnt mean they are going clean Turkey out of Atheists. As i said in my eyes the Eduction is balanced perfectly, Biology with Evolution theory on one side and Religious teachings on one side.

 

[Targon]

Of course its balanced in your eyes...

We're discuissing it for hours, yes he threats the secular system.

 

[BordoEnes]

Of course its balanced in your eyes...

We're discuissing it for hours, yes he threats the secular system.

Why? So teaching Evolution Theory is all alowed but god help if there some religious teaching. Let me gues your an Atheist and you think you got the nerve on talking behalve The People of Turkey whats good for Turkey on not. He Einstein 90% Is muslim in Turkey.

 

[Selim I]

State clearly says they will raise a religious generation and discriminating Atheists openly by considering them same as drug dealers and ill-minded people, those are not only words, they're gradually realizing it by promoting religious schools, increasing religious education from elementary schools, minor AKP members supporting it locally with acts such as banning alcohol, handing islamist books in schools, seperating famela and male scouts etc..

Even just statements are enough to consider him a threat againts secularism, what we're discuissing after all ?

Selim I

Ordinary Muslim= technically muslim, sometimes fullfilling the principles
Religious Muslim= Fullfilling the principles
Fundamentalist&Islamist&Extremist= discriminating others, forcing their thoughts on others.

Edit: I'm repeating myself, let the harm of forced religious education aside, its NOT the secular state's job, state should be indifferent on religious matters.

Ordinary Muslim sometimes fulfilling? hehe, this is amusing. I mean lazyness in faith makes you "ordinary" Muslim. But if you are not lazy and if you are fulfilling the principles you suddenly become religious Muslim fair enough, since this is your definition.

So you categorize Erdogan in the "Islamist" class, since you believe he is discriminating others, and forcing his thoughts on others. What do you base those statements on? I mean, yeah he wants to Quran and Siyer as elective lectures, but this isn't "forcing" hence "elective".

 

[BronzePlaque]

Ordinary Muslim sometimes fulfilling? hehe, this is amusing. I mean lazyness in faith makes you "ordinary" Muslim. But if you are not lazy and if you are fulfilling the principles you suddenly become religious Muslim fair enough, since this is your definition.

So you categorize Erdogan in the "Islamist" class, since you believe he is discriminating others, and forcing his thoughts on others. What do you base those statements on? I mean, yeah he wants to Quran and Siyer as elective lectures, but this isn't "forcing" hence "elective".

We have been through this mate..There is no base..Only prejudices..In 2002 after they came to power, we started to hear such things..After 10 years, we still hear the same things and yet nothing has changed

 

[TurAr]

Well i agree on that one..But the essence of this discussion was about "is raising religious children a threat to secularism or not"..I dont see as a threat, but as you said the decision should be given by parents..Thats whole another point tho

Like i said raising religious children is not a threat for secularism (as long as it is the decision of family) but Prime Minister's desires about raising only Sunni Muslim children is a threat for secularism. (i assume we all think same what religious generation means in the eyes of Erdogan)

 

[Targon]

State's job should be nothing more then teaching basics of religions in schools, and for entering religious schools, technical schools etc. kids should have a certain level of maturity, putting 11 years olds to religious schools, giving deep religious education to little kids is simply allowing the abusement and showing them just one path. and yes its destroys the indifference of state in religion matters.

 

[BronzePlaque]

State's job should be nothing more then teaching basics of religions in schools, and for entering religious schools, technical schools etc. kids should have a certain level of maturity, putting 11 years olds to religious schools, giving deep religious education to little kids is simply allowing the abusement and showing them just one path.

Government doesnt put kids to those schools..Families do..Its a matter of families choice..Blame the families then, not government