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Israeli inquiry: Flotilla raid was legal

Archdemon: You said that there was live fire before boarding on ship and to prove your point you post video (4/5) as turned to be paintball shots and now you diverting responsibility for so called fact finding on us by saying we didn't watch the following part, are you fcking serious? why wouldn't you initially post the (5/6) or whatever part prove your point? because you are not that bright...
Well of course there was live fire! nine terror activist dead.

6:05 into the (5/6) is priceless [MOD EDIT]




The point of the discussion was to prove that the IDF is not innocent in this incident, this has been proven and you have failed in the blind defense of the IDF.

Do not insult my religion just because you suddenly have no more excuses. Your conflict with Palestine is a political conflict that often gets twisted by both sides into a religious conflict, I can give you fine examples why nobody would want the nation of Israel near them by quoting from the holy Jewish texts but I do not since the nature of the discussion here is not a religious one.
MOD EDIT [Issue Adressed]
 
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500: You posted 4/6 video in order to prove, that IDF fired live fire prior landing. That video however proved the Israeli version: that they fired paintball guns.

Now you post 5/6 video, which begins well after landing. No one denied that after landed force was attacked by clubs and knives Israel did use live fire.




The point of this discussion war to prove that the IDF is not innocent in this incident and I have proven that without the capability of denial.

The conflict between Palestine and Israel is a political conflict that often gets twisted by both sides into a religious conflict in order to gather more support.

The series of videos are linked and therefore they are all relevant and part 5/6 does not start after the landing which this can easily be deducted by the body language of the people on board the Mavi Marmara.
 
500 and Archdemon, again thank you for falling into the trap of blind faith in the IDF. We have seen how easy it is for someone to be accused of "moderate" intelligence to come along and stump you both.

Your only follow up comment being "look that Turk wants to die!" and "video 4 of 6 is not related to video 5 of 6". :rofl:

You have no more excuses and I will end my discussion with you both since your both blinded by your faith in the IDF.

Moderators take note of post 104 for the blatant hatred displayed towards the religion of Islam.
 
Since the english empire and the jewish people took Palestinian land the conflict started.
This land never was Palestinian. In fact Palestinian nation was invented in 1964. Before that no one heard of any "Palestinian people".

As for conflict. There always was some conflict here since donosaurs times.

and btw.. lets say.. if that 6day war never happened and the palestinians were THE MOST BEST FRIENDS for the jewish people and they never caught in a fight or something..
Do you REALLY? think that jewish people wouldn't still somehow capture jerusalem?
or still claim land from the palestinians?
Would Turkey capture half of Cyprus if war there never happened? Would Nil Armstrong became famous if there was not a moon? Would Cameron film Avatar if there was not 3D glasses? Why the sky is blue?

Cheers :wave:

P.S. By the way East Jerusalem was catured from Jordanians not from Palestinians.
 
Since the english empire and the jewish people took Palestinian land to conflict started

Don't forget the Turks

Wtf does jewish people think they are?

Well at least they think, which is more than i can say about others...

murding some 9turkish people(no matter if legal or illegal)

it does matter, because if it is legal it wouldn't be called murder! but i will discount you for this due to your mental condition

claiming lands from the palestinians the holan heights

holan heights are in Holland :) but if you refer to Gollan heights you yet again wrong, they were under Syrian control, now thy are Israeli to stay.
 
Don't forget the Turks


What did the turks do? other then defending aiganst 5nations which tried to capture turkey once and for all several times?
Well at least they think, which is more than i can say about others...

i mean your right you guys killed jesus and captured lands from palestinians.. and even the us is on your butt side!
media is on your side everything!
holland is your best eu ally very good!
yet you guys are the most hated people on earth.
the current populations of the muslim world plus the grow rate..
would simply overwhelm all of you.
no matter how advanced your army is that tiny little occupied lands can be bombed by 1 f16.

it does matter, because if it is legal it wouldn't be called murder! but i will discount you for this due to your mental condition

why are you jewish people so stupid?
THE BOTTOM LINE IS.. JEWS KILLED 9 TURKISH PEOPLE
THATS IT
IF THEY WERE TERRORISTS THANK YOU
BUT THEY WERENT.
YOU HAD NO RIGHTS.
IF ANYONE ENTERS MY SHIP WITHOUTPERMISSION
I WOULD BEAT THE OUT OF HIM

holan heights are in Holland :) but if you refer to Gollan heights you yet again wrong, they were under Syrian control, now thy are Israeli to stay.
tell me what gave you the right to capture gollan heights and construct buildings so you can teach your sons and grandsons its always been jewish state so they can continue your dirty work?
 
tell me what gave you the right to capture gollan heights and construct buildings so you can teach your sons and grandsons its always been jewish state so they can continue your dirty work?

The fact that Syrians were shelling Israeli towns from Gollan had something to do with capturing the heights in order to prevent them to do so...
 
The fact that Syrians were shelling Israeli towns from Gollan had something to do with capturing the heights in order to prevent them to do so...

Did you tried having a deal with the country? so they can clean that place up?
if not.. why dont you give it back since many months past so i think that place is "clean' now right?
 
This land never was Palestinian. In fact Palestinian nation was invented in 1964. Before that no one heard of any "Palestinian people".

this BS comes from guys like Alan Dershowitz..no need to say their works are collection of fraud and falsifications.

some self-hating jews accept that but not israeli patriots here..they are so self-loving,i admire them.but im also afraid that they will make love on their own...:azn:
 
this BS comes from guys like Alan Dershowitz..no need to say their works are collection of fraud and falsifications.

some self-hating jews accept that but not israeli patriots here..they are so self-loving,i admire them.but im also afraid that they will make love on their own...:azn:
I'll agree with you if you will find pre 1964 mention of Palestinian people.
 
for the record,this is not true.i promised myself not to discuss with the freaks here,but if any foreign guests want to learn about the issue,this article would be useful:
Top Ten Myths about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Jews in Arab countries were third class citizens. They forced to pay jizyah, wear yellow badges and other humiliating signes, they could not ride horse, build houses taller than Muslims, could not rise hand on Muslim even for self defence etc etc.. But this was not enough, they were often massacred and expelled. No wonder that after Israel created 99.9% of Jews in Arab countries left for Israel.

And there was always conflict here since prehistoric times. Armies always clashed here. Even first recorded battle in history of whole mankind happened here.

Egyptians, Hittis, Babylonians, Assirians, Persians, Alexander the Great, Ptolemys, Selecuides, Romans, Byzantines, again Persians, Arabs, Abbasides, Tulunids, Qarmatians, Fatimids, Seljuks, Ikhshidids, Crusiders, Ayubides, Mongols, Mamluks, Ottomans, Bedouin chiefs, Napoleon, Muhammad Ali, British - all these armies clashed here and conquered whole or parts of it. Thats not talking about constant clashes between Arab clans, Bedouin robbers and so on. City gates closed at nights till the beginning of 20th century, because it was very dangerous outside.

So please spare me of that stupid Arab propaganda sites. :disagree:
 
Jews in Arab countries were third class citizens. They forced to pay jizyah, wear yellow badges and other humiliating signes, they could not ride horse, build houses taller than Muslims, could not rise hand on Muslim even for self defence etc etc.. But this was not enough, they were often massacred and expelled. No wonder that after Israel created 99.9% of Jews in Arab countries left for Israel.

I must say you have the Arabs confused with the Nazis!!!

Jews were treated quite well by most of the Arab countries and when we consider the norms of the times, it was very reasonable.

At the onset of the Muslim state, the Jews were mostly very close to the Muslims and were not victims of any persecution simply based on their religion.

Jizya was a tax and exempted the minorities from mandatory military service.
Tax was also paid by Muslims and it was called Zakat, however the Muslims were not exempt from military service.
Jizya and Zakat were paid to be counted as citizen of the state.
It was not a humiliating thing but a tax, it ensured the rights of every citizen whether Jew or Muslim or Christian.

The height restrictions on houses was also applied to Muslims and was not just a Jews only restriction.
Some Muslim houses were reduced in height upon complaints of neighbors in Egypt under the Caliph Umar RA, so there is historical evidence to prove this as well.
Purpose was to achieve uniformity, discourage show of wealth and also to prevent people from prying into their neighbors house and cause a disturbance.
Even modern housing societies have restrictions on heights so that is not something tragic nor was it only applied to Jews.

Jews could not ride horses?
Come on man that is really lame.
When Muslims conquered modern day Syria and surrounding lands, they were well supported by Jews, there was no Nazi like persecution of Jews.
The Jews actually felt persecuted at the hands of the Romans who treated them as third class citizens; whereas the Muslims were obligated to ensure equality of those who paid the Jizya as citizens of the state.
In Spain, it was again Muslims and Jews who easily mingled as opposed to Muslims and Christians who were always at clash.

Self defense was something allowed to anyone, there is no law in Islam which says that no Jew is allowed to defend himself from Muslims.
The state was responsible for protection of all citizens but if there was some issue the non Muslims were entitled to take anyone to court and no one was exempt.
The Caliph Ali RA was taken to court over a suit of armor which a Jew claimed was his property.
The Caliph Ali RA lost the case due to lack of witnesses because the judge refused to accept his own family as witnesses.
Such things were unimaginable under the Romans but very much possible in the Muslim empire which granted rights to all its Jizya paying and Zakat paying citizens.
Also note that Jizya and Zakat were payable only by those who had the capacity to do so.
For people below the poverty line, this was not an obligation.

This was how things were at the start of the Muslim state/empire and in its early days.
These were not PR efforts but examples set by the most iconic of Muslim rulers in order for others to emulate.
Most of the rulers emulated the example of not showing contempt towards any citizen based on their religion.
There may have been some less capable rulers here and there in some states but there was no Jew Phobia in the Muslim world nor was there any hatred for Jews.
All this only started with the Israel and Palestinian conflict.

Due to the crusades there was definitely a friction between the Muslim state and the Christian powers but even this never resulted in the persecution of the Christian population.
Salahuddin did not persecute his Christian or Jewish subjects.
When the Spanish Muslims and Jews were ruthlessly persecuted by the Spanish Inquisition for centuries, those who escaped mostly settled in North Africa or Turkey which were Muslim states.

The decent treatment of minorities was one of the reasons why the Muslim States were full of thinkers, inventors, artists etc. from all over the world.
In this the Muslims were bound by their religious code and the examples of their rulers past.
Despite having overwhelming power for centuries, Muslims never did to Jews what happened in the Spanish Inquisition or in Nazi Germany.
So you should stop spreading this false notion that Muslim States were treating Jews as third class citizens, in those days being a third class citizen usually meant a Spanish Inquisition like scenario...this was never enacted by Muslims.
Even 20th century Europe has a glaring example of what third class citizens were treated like.
So please get real.
 
I must say you have the Arabs confused with the Nazis!!!
No I dont.

Jews were treated quite well by most of the Arab countries and when we consider the norms of the times, it was very reasonable.
Spare me of that nonsense.

Jizya was a tax and exempted the minorities from mandatory military service.
Nonsense. Military service was job of professionals in Middle Ages. Only tiny fraction of population was fighting wars. The overhwelming majority both Muslims and non Muslims did not do any military service in their life.

Tax was also paid by Muslims and it was called Zakat, however the Muslims were not exempt from military service.
Zakat was much smaller, it was paid by rich and middle class only and returned to Muslim poors. Jizya was paid by everyone. Poor non Muslims payd it too.

The height restrictions on houses was also applied to Muslims and was not just a Jews only restriction.
Some Muslim houses were reduced in height upon complaints of neighbors in Egypt under the Caliph Umar RA, so there is historical evidence to prove this as well.
Purpose was to achieve uniformity, discourage show of wealth and also to prevent people from prying into their neighbors house and cause a disturbance.
Even modern housing societies have restrictions on heights so that is not something tragic nor was it only applied to Jews.
Spare me of that nonsense. In same neighborhood same class people Muslim houses supposed to be always higher than non Muslim.

Jews could not ride horses?
Come on man that is really lame.
Thats fact. Thats like you cant ride good car today.

Here text of Umar pact:

Medieval Sourcebook: Pact of Umar, 7th Century

So spare me lame propaganda plz.
 

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