Israeli Air Force Gears up to Strike Iran.

[below_freezing]

what i am saying is, in terms of military strength iran has yet to even become as strong as north korea, though undoubtably economically iran is better. this has many factors, but a primary one is that iran has no really strong allies, while north korea has alliances with 2 large neighboring countries that donated it money, weapons and fuel since independence.

iranian equipment is also varied with origin, making logistics management exceptionally difficult especially with iran's inexperience and previous track record in this field.

don't count on US domestic pressure to end a war. the puppet president is easily changed, the policies will not.

 

[Nima]

Khatami dialogue of civilizations, reforms, good relations with saudis, lebanon, europe
Ahmadinejad antisemitism, non respect for people votes, lies, bad relations with most countries in the world (when it is it is because economic energy reason: gas, oil, gifts to venezuela and same hatred towards usa), economy is getting very much down

but america: same worry


You're somewhat right but i htink with new generations it changed
martyrdom is more for the fight for democracy now
But of course if USA , even if we respect USA, invades the country there would be hell for them.

I am not sure Israel not able to bomb Iran but seems that they won't do it until it would be 99% sure there would be a nuclear weapon in Iran
Israelis have many good technology that in this forum many spoke about.

Our country is suffering a lot inside. Hope it can change and show its real face: Iran as a light not as a hatred. I think the same of Islam: I always followed GA Montazeri for this

khatami is a mullah
same **** different smell

And you're right about the new generation, but remember back then the population was much smaller. Even though today a lot of people are less religious, because of our much larger population we can still find the same number of shia fanatics as back then, take abi and his crew for example.

Israel has a good military but it can't attack Iran for a few reasons. First they don't have enough jets to take out all the facilities and also military installations and second, there is a possibility that they won't be able to do the job and Iran also attacks them as well. If that happens then Iran will pull out of the NPT and just use one of the secret facilities to make a nuke and this could be deadly for Israel. It's easier for them to just live with a nuclear Iran cuz they can't do anything about it.

 

[Nima]

sorry i do not understand iranian internal problems very well, it was my understanding that they were CIA sponsored agents to topple the government to create a power vacuum so the US/israel can invade iran.

this is not the time for "reform" when iran has a credible threat of being invaded by the US.

without a strong military with the ability to completely destroy 1 US client state and at least make the US civilians feel some pain, your country is not safe. iran needs to reach at least north korea's military level before it can be safe. best of luck with that.

okay you seem like a reasonable person, sorry for being rude

usually the people who say the CIA is creating trouble in Iran are either muslim fanatics or have a certain agenda.

and you'd be surprised how hard life is with this govt. It's border line North Korea. Yes we're not hungry and have a great infrastructure but socially Iran is hell. Absolutely no freedom, after a while you just can't take it anymore.

 

[gambit]

The US can theoretically make Iran into a parking lot, will it do it? no

That is not our intent. Retarding Iranian nuclear weapons program is.

It doesn't matter how much fire power you have. The US doesn't need another war right now. Economy is ****, you have NO MONEY, the debt is out of control, public opinion is against it, your president isn't a redneck anymore...

The thing with functional democracies is that we have regular regime changes. Eight years of the US under Bill Clinton and the world believed the US was weak. Eight years under George W. Bush and two MEastern countries felled with no one came to their aid. Do not pretend you know anything about US politics or economics.

...and our capabilities are enough to make enough damage so that we won't be worth your time and effort.

No...Iran will be militarily defeated the same as Iraq's Desert Storm.

 

[Hussein]

Eight years of the US under Bill Clinton and the world believed the US was weak. Eight years under George W. Bush and two MEastern countries felled with no one came to their aid.

USA never be so unpopular than during Bush leadership. This is weakening your country.

USA spent too much for war in Iraq. This is weakening your country.
Now you see how your favorite president weakened economically your country.

In Europe USA became unpopular because of this policy of war and no dialogue.

Maybe you are american but you are blind not see all problems it was to have Bush as president

 

[pak-yes]

Interesting Discussion Going on Between Gambit and Nima.

So it's seems only Nukes can guarantee the safety of countries from America.

 

[gambit]

So it's seems only Nukes can guarantee the safety of countries from America.

No...Not even nuclear weapons offers such 'guarantee'. What nuclear weapons offer is deterrence. Not the same as a guarantee. Deterrence mean delay. Even if a country is a nuclear weapons state, it must have nuclear parity in order to present a credible deterrence. If we attack Iranian nuclear facilities and Iran respond with an unknown nuclear weapon, the US will respond in kind a hundred fold. The Iranian religious nutjobs do not know what kind of power, political or otherwise, they are messing with.

 

[IceCold]

No...Not even nuclear weapons offers such 'guarantee'. What nuclear weapons offer is deterrence. Not the same as a guarantee. Deterrence mean delay. Even if a country is a nuclear weapons state, it must have nuclear parity in order to present a credible deterrence. If we attack Iranian nuclear facilities and Iran respond with an unknown nuclear weapon, the US will respond in kind a hundred fold. The Iranian religious nutjobs do not know what kind of power, political or otherwise, they are messing with.

I disagree the reason why cold war remained cold war was because both countries knew they can destroy each other many times over. Incase of Iran they do not need to maintain nuclear parity with the US, all they need is a couple of nuclear warheads and to make sure that those handfull of nuclear warheads can reach the american main land in case of a strike irrespective of how many the US has because american public knowning they are not safe will never let america go to war the best thing about functional democracy.

 

[fsoul]

14) NO NATIONALISM
Iraq was a FAKE COUNTRY carved out of the Ottoman empire.
It consisted of people who hated each other, kurds, sunnis and shias.

you fought with them for 8 long years just for NOTHING, you think they don't have nationalism.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Israel's fighter-bombers can reach Iran. Yes...They would need US air refuel assist but essentially Israel can attack Iran by itself.


The willingness to toss away lives is nothing to boast about. The average Iranian knows that Israel has no territorial ambitions regarding Iran. This understanding will go towards blunting any talk of a war march through Iraq to get at Israel. But even if said march does occur, the US will get involved alongside the Iraqis.

Here is what you failed to understand...

The reason why the US can support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, pretty much concurrently, is because we have the ability and capacity to inflict far more death and destruction to the enemy than receiving casualties. When necessary, individual units and soldiers will fight hand-to-hand if necessary, but if possible, they will call for far greater firepower than whatever the enemy can bring to the fight. This level of firepower the Iranian army will face, not just inside Iraq but from above and from the sea. The Iranian army inside Iraq will be severed from the mother country. Do you really believe that the US have not considered this possibility?


Of course you have -- Israel.

Cowards create war hysteria. If you are so much indulged with the war than send your family, you and and your friends to the war to help Israel. If you can't do that than kindly stop posting BS.

 

[pak-yes]

No...Not even nuclear weapons offers such 'guarantee'. What nuclear weapons offer is deterrence. Not the same as a guarantee. Deterrence mean delay. Even if a country is a nuclear weapons state, it must have nuclear parity in order to present a credible deterrence. If we attack Iranian nuclear facilities and Iran respond with an unknown nuclear weapon, the US will respond in kind a hundred fold. The Iranian religious nutjobs do not know what kind of power, political or otherwise, they are messing with.

Wooo That a Big Statement.Well in my opinion Nuclear Parity with US is neither Possible nor Required.If i am not wrong your Public Opinion is already against War.Iranians can easily exploit that situation.All those Mullahs need to do is declare they have nukes on Iranian TV and threaten to use them Against US if attacked.That will create enough fear that will stop US to attack on Iran.

And Of Course if Iran doesn't have launch Vehicles that doesn't mean that they can't deliver the Nukes to US Soil.But then you will say that America will retaliate with such force that they will wipe out everything of Iran.But that would become an End of the World Scenario.Don't you think it's tooo much that just to make sure that a Nation doesn't have Nukes you are risking WW3.

 

[Thomas]

Thomas you use a very civilized language sometimes and I really appreciate that.

but are you also in favour of people being killed?

How can you stop someone from acquiring weapons when you also have it. Now don't tell me that you are a civilized nation because it was the U.S. who used it not the Iranians and not the Pakistanis.

Do you care about human life?
or its fine if another hundred thousand people die?

Is it fair to stop Iran or is it fair to stop every country/weapon free world?

I know you belong to a military profession but c'mon you are also a human being like me or any other.
Skin colour does not change people nor the professions.

Israel should not attack Iran.

I bet if the U.S. says to the world.
OKAY thats it no more Nuclear Weapons.
Billions of people will support it. Every one will be under the umbrella of the U.S. initiative. People will praise the U.S.
I will praise the U.S. at least.

America will be a true leader of peaceful world.
Everyone wants to live a peaceful life.
You, me , people over here and people around the world.

No more wars on ideology, religion, land and resources.
Nice idea to wish for.
Isn't it?

Maybe you can't teach monkeys to talk..
Similarly, you can't teach generals to live in peace.

War is a horrible thing and nuclear weapons make it more so. A world without war would be great. I do not however believe that it is realistic. Or to be 100% nuclear weapons free in the world.

Because of the nature of man there will always be people and countries that feel they are essential in order to project power. Or for their last line of defense. You can however try to limit more countries acquiring them. Especially those that are unstable or belligerent.

As far as Israel is concerned they have constantly fought for their national survival since they became a country once again. Iran has made it's views clear over the years. the mullah's and the president of Iran have stated they want Israel destroyed. With Iran trying to get a nuke how would you expect Israel or the U.S. to act?

I have very little doubt that if Iran had a nuke they would eventually use it on Israel. Most of the western nations feel the same way. And to that end Iran needs to be stopped from acquiring them. If that means going to war if Iran refuses to back down then so be it.

Iran's leaders know what they are gambling. and they are willing it seems to pay the price no matter what. Though they are making the same mistake Saddam made in thinking they can manage the situation.

Do you not agree it is better for less countries to have nukes rather then more?

 

[r3alist]

As far as Israel is concerned they have constantly fought for their national survival since they became a country once again.

rubbish, pure rubbish, its too much of a big topic to get into and i dont feel that strongly about it but to call it rubbish for now will suffice.

I have very little doubt that if Iran had a nuke they would eventually use it on Israel.

based on what?

are you really saying the iranians would risk their own nation just to get it israel?

because thats what you are saying - just for a second consider what that means - that the iranians have no brains and are blood thirsty to the point that they would risk their own deaths - that is what you are saying about them

 

[pak-yes]

War is a horrible thing and nuclear weapons make it more so. A world without war would be great. I do not however believe that it is realistic. Or to be 100% nuclear weapons free in the world.

Because of the nature of man there will always be people and countries that feel they are essential in order to project power. Or for their last line of defense. You can however try to limit more countries acquiring them. Especially those that are unstable or belligerent.

As far as Israel is concerned they have constantly fought for their national survival since they became a country once again. Iran has made it's views clear over the years. the mullah's and the president of Iran have stated they want Israel destroyed. With Iran trying to get a nuke how would you expect Israel or the U.S. to act?

I have very little doubt that if Iran had a nuke they would eventually use it on Israel. Most of the western nations feel the same way. And to that end Iran needs to be stopped from acquiring them. If that means going to war if Iran refuses to back down then so be it.

Iran's leaders know what they are gambling. and they are willing it seems to pay the price no matter what. Though they are making the same mistake Saddam made in thinking they can manage the situation.

Do you not agree it is better for less countries to have nukes rather then more?

Well Sir,Talk is Cheap and Iran knows it.If Iran says it will wipe Israel off the map that doesn't mean they would really do it.After all every one knows that Israel also does have Nukes.So in a war both will be destroyed.I don't think Iranians would risk their own destruction just for the destruction of another Country.

 

[r3alist]

in all decency thomas needs to justify why he thinks iran will nuke israel....lets hear it?