None of the above arab countries have the same amount of resources as Israel provided by the US -- one Example is that Egypt has close to 300 F-16s but not a single BVR AIM-120C Missiles !! -- does it speak anything to you ??
Perhaps if the Arabs showed their true calibre, they would get the same toys. Why would US give some country advanced military products when they are unable to use even the basic products to their fullest extent. Your post does not refute my claim and it only shows that the Israelis have been successful in lobbying while the Arabs faltered.
I was talking about the Nazis , as for Israel - they have killed mass amount of Palestinians over the years - btw how many palestenians do you think should be killed before its called a genocide ?
So was I, but you compared the death of millions of Jews and Gypsies to an unequal but still brutal murder of a number of Palestinians.
Your point was obviously biased and unreasonable.
I doubt that your Knowledge is authentic - Germans developed the first smart bomb - the Fritz-X , first jet engine fighter jet ME-262 first fully operational highly capable submarine UBOAT , world's largest ship frigate called the the bismark , world's first rocket V-1/VII (missile) , world's most capable tank the panther at that time , world's first fully automatic assault rifle the Sturmgewehr 44 , world's first stealth bomber (Horten) , world's first thermal rifle mounted sight and night vision - and yes they did the initial r&d for the atomic bomb too ! not the americans , Most of the American technology is based on Nazi technologies.
Are you aware of the kind of funding that went into research and development during Nazi era Germany while US suffered from a terrible recession.
But even then the Americans were able to match the Germans in developing state of the art products and they were the first to develop a functional Atom Bomb which Nazi Germany could not develop.
Is Zia a standard in your mind for Pakistani principles and in your mind he truly represented the will of Pakistani people --- i feel for you man !
Answer my question rather than trying to divert from the topic, my your logic we also were party to a genocide when one of our own military men killed thousands of Palestinians.
Refer to a specific events , and i am talking about Pakistan not any other country so stay relevant !
Stay relevant?
Why are you bringing in the Germans, their technological prowess and what not when you want to be relevant.
On 25th December 1947, Jinnah appointed Zafarullah Khan as the Foreign Minister of Pakistan. At the UN, Sir Zafrullah emerged as the most eloquent advocate of all third world and Islamic issues.
Zafarullah Khan was a great orator for the Palestine and the Arab cause and was an extremely respected figure in the Muslim world, he raised the Palestine issue in the United Nations on multiple occasions. In October 1947 he delivered a speech on the Palestine issue in the UN General Assembly, which is one of the most strong case ever presented for Palestine to date.
http://aleemkhan.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/sir-zafarullah-khan-speech.pdf
The Palestinian Question at The U.N.: Monday, 24 November 1947, at 2.30 p.m. - Senegambia News
In 1947 Pakistan's representative to the United Nations,
Sir Zafrullah Khan, waged a struggle against the UN Partition Plan for Palestine (1947). Khan strove for the establishment of a federal state in Palestine.
Nevertheless, when the battles had died down in 1949 and the ceasefire agreement had been signed, some in the Israeli Foreign Ministry believed it might be possible to open legations in Karachi, then the capital of Pakistan, or at least to conduct trade openly.[5] Initial contact between the ambassador (high commissioner) of Pakistan in London and representatives of Israel and Jewish organizations was made in early 1950. The Pakistani government was asked to issue passage permits to India for a few hundred Jews who had been forced to leave Afghanistan and wanted to emigrate to Israel. The Pakistani government refused to allow them to transit through Pakistan and the Jews left through Iran.[6]
In Cairo in March 1952, Zafrullah Khan, who had meanwhile been appointed Pakistan's foreign minister, said he thought Israel and Arab countries ought to reach an agreement, though he emphasized that his country supported the Arabs' demands. For example, the Arabs wanted Israel to alter borders, provide monetary compensation, and make assurances that it had no aggressive intentions.[7]
Consequently, a meeting was arranged in New York between Zafrullah Khan and Abba Eban, then Israel's ambassador to the United States, on 14 January 1953. Regarding Israeli-Pakistani relations, Zafrullah Khan told Eban that his government would not be able to withstand the extremists' opposition and that there was no chance for improved relations between the two countries in the near future "despite the fact that the Pakistani government does not bear any hatred toward Israel and understands that it is a factor in the Middle East that must be taken into consideration." For the time being, he expressed his approval of mutual visits of experts, students, and professors. He added that when the Arabs exhibited willingness to meet with Israel to solve problems, Pakistan would try to influence the Arabs toward reaching an agreement.[8]
In March and April 1954, Zafrullah Khan stated on several occasions that his country did not recognize Israel and had no intention of doing so. Israel was a foreign wedge in the Middle East and posed a danger not only to surrounding Arab countries but to the entire Islamic world. Pakistan would aid the Arabs in protecting sites holy to Islam. The Pakistani prime minister, of Pakistan, told a visiting group of Palestinian Arab clergy that the issue of Palestine was not only an Arab one but also a Muslim one. He promised them his country's loyalty on issues pertaining to "Muslims in Palestine." He kept this promise at a conference of Asian heads of state, held in Colombo in 1954 in advance of the Bandung Conference, and during the Bandung Conference itself. For this he was praised by King Saud of Saudi Arabia.[9]
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=5&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=625&PID=0&IID=1899&TTL=Pakistan_and_Israel
You seriously need to learn some details dude , just try to find out who supplied us with F-86 Sabres and F-104 Starfighters during the war!
Look 'dude', the way we PAF helped the Arabs should mean that the Arabs should make their entire line of fighters available to us.
Thats rubbish , we cant build our own institutions , setting up what you are implying for someone else cracks my ribs this morning .
Do you even know history or is it all just new to you.
One such example is how BCCI set up the financial institutions for the Arab nations but you might not even know Agha Hassan Abedi.
copy paste from the previous post -- anyway--you cant blame a whole country because some radical idiots fun any terror group in Pakistan , if you have any proof involving a Muslim state sponsoring terror in Pakistan , bring it forward i would like to have a look at it for good.
BBC News - Wikileaks: Saudis 'chief funders of Sunni militants'
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Analyses - Madrassas | PBS - Saudi Time Bomb? | FRONTLINE | PBS
The Hindu : News / The India Cables : Indian ‘concern' over Saudi funding for extremists
We haven't build any one's security forces , its just an illusion of yours and i am sure you can't prove it -- we do provide Training for pilots and spec ops and thats it -! we don't have the capability to set up a whole command & control structure for another country as we never have.
So our soldiers did not train the Arab security forces, did we not develop their training methods, do we not make up the bulk of their security forces in certain countries like Bahrain and Qatar.
Just stating facts , which have a bitter taste for you.
Facts, seem like a far fetched idea.
Anyhow, you seem oblivious to facts.
thats what i just said in the previous post of mine - the only tool for people with zero knowledge over the given subject is to reject the talk as "a conspiracy theory" -- but what i said can be verified if you have any high level contacts in PAF-- what ever i know is highly trustworthy and it satisfies me.
Good for you, perhaps you should contact those who actually are privy to the workings of PA with the Arabs.
Try the Fauji Foundation.
Why shouldn't i -- they are killing innocent palestenians on daily basis -- they don't deserve recognition until a separate and independent palestenian state is formed.
The possibility of Palestine depends on the Arabs and they have truly messed it up so we gotta look out for our interest. Its not like the Arabs do not recognize India because of Kashmir.
We never had a choice of recognizing india and btw Indians were not brought to India by ships !
Choices is ours to make.
Thanks for telling me that -- i reject it by having doubts in your ability to understand simple facts .
My abilities are known to me, I too have doubts about your ability to comprehend things properly.
you are over estimating our skills of diplomacy , we are not as good as you think we are when it comes to trouble shooting- our policy on kashmir has filed how can you even say that a country that cant solve its own problems can solve a problems 5000 miles away?
You sound like a self deprecating Pakistani, according to you, we cannot do anything.
But I know that we have the ability to achieve a whole lot more but we are boggled down by brothers and their followers within.
Look at Turkey - what they have got in return from friendship with israel ! --- we will get the same , they will sit in your roots and cut them for good .
A Turkish member refutes your claims and you continue to speak on their behalf.
I am doubting your ability again.
Stop blaming others for our problems , this rubbish is home made -- and btw we are not discussing any of the above you are brining in the discussion for no apparent reason .
Its all home made, the foreign ideology, the funding, the leaders who came to Pakistan are all home made.
Thanks-- the end note is -- we must not recognize Israel until a free Palestenian state is established - i am a believer in two state solution , Israelis do serve a homeland but along with the free Palestanian state !!!
So we should stay put and continue to fumble along with a fractured policy, the Arabs lost Palestine themselves.
We cannot put out country in jeopardy for some Arabs who are causing us harm.
Palestine will be created if the power players are involved and we can achieve that, but we need to alter our thinking and our subservient attitude.
