Israel Hijacks Aid cargo, executes hostages - Pak journo, Talat Hussain taken hostage

[rameez ahmed]

Under the law of a blockade, it is legal to intercept and get on board in a ship which is heading towards blockaded territory even in international waters.

Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal? | Reuters

I don't need to answer you in this because you have got your answer in the above previous comments.......

 

[Marxist]

*****deleted*****

 

[Spring Onion]

Flotilla raid footage goes viral as Israel floods YouTube

JERUSALEM: Israel may have lost the initial PR battle over its deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship, but it is fighting back with a barrage of video clips in a bid to prove activists initiated the violence.

Days after the botched attack which killed nine Turks, the fight over what exactly happened on board the ferry is still raging on YouTube, with both sides posting more and more clips on the video-sharing website to support their case.



It was chaotic footage of Israeli troops storming the Turkish-owned Mavi Marmara which first caught the world's attention.



Streaming Internet video of bloodied passengers and reporters issuing urgent calls for help were transmitted in real time from the deck of the ship.



The commandos eventually disconnected the feed but the damage was done, provoking a wave of global outrage which has dealt a harsh blow to Israel's image.


Israel says its troops were violently attacked as they dropped onto the Mavi Marmara, and only shot back in self-defence. The activists say the commandos started shooting as soon as they arrived, prompting those on board to act in self-defence.



Faced with a diplomatic backlash, Israel cranked up its propaganda machine, uploading a slew of video clips to YouTube to support its version of events.



Grainy images of elite commandos taking a beating at the hands of Turkish activists turned out to be one of Israel's most unlikely propaganda successes.



“Over 1.6 million people watched that footage. You also saw it used on blogs and in forums,” said Lieutenant Aliza Landes, head of the Israeli military's new media desk.


In another clip, taken from the ship's security cameras, activists can be seen preparing for a confrontation.



“In that footage you can see them handing out metal batons and putting on masks, and you can see the light of the boat approaching so it's clear that they were preparing for a fight,” said Landes.



“YouTube is the best tool we have as video gives the most powerful information,” said Landes.


Israel has, however, come under fire for using “pirated” footage to defend its botched raid – material confiscated from journalists who were on board the ship.


An interview with a passenger who says he wants to be “a martyr” is shown in a clip not credited to any media outlet, and only described as “footage captured on the Gaza flotilla.” The army refused to say whether the footage would be returned.



Twitter has also been widely used by both sides, with the microblogging site flooded with Tweets as the raid happened, most of them posted by the flotilla organisers commenting on the live Internet feed.



But none of the Tweets actually originated from the boat. And Israel has so far only used the service to distribute official information rather than as a breaking news tool.



Chaim Shacham, director of information at the foreign ministry, says Israel is becoming more aware of the digital media battlefield.



“In this case, it was very clear to us that it would be a race for footage,” he told AFP, saying that the navy had cameramen in the helicopters and patrol boats.



Getting footage was part of the operational plan, he said.



All the clips put out by Israel have been rigorously edited, have no timestamp and show only scenes which vindicate the Israeli account without explaining what happened before, or after.



Shacham dismisses claims the footage provides a distorted image of events.



“The footage from the ship immediately put things into context – it told the story of the soldiers as well as the protesters, clearly showing the soldiers rappelling down and getting beaten,” he said.



While some of the footage had not been very “convenient” for Israel, much of it vindicated the troops' account, said Shacham.



“The Arabic and Turkish footage is very revealing: it shows the jihadists on the ship were intending to beat the hell out of the soldiers,” he said, pointing to interviews with Bulent Yildirim, head of the Turkish charity IHH.



But analyst Yariv Ben Eliezer believes Israel's online efforts were too little, too late.



“We lost the propaganda war before we even started,” said Ben Eliezer, a propaganda management expert at the IDC centre in Herzliya. “We are considered by the world to be Goliath and the 'humanitarian' activists are considered to be David, so it's a lose-lose situation.” Israel, he says, should have done its homework and exposed activists aboard the ferry as “extremists” long before they set sail.



“It's not effective now because nobody wants to listen.”


DAWN.COM | Sci-Tech | Flotilla raid footage goes viral as Israel floods YouTube

 

[Marxist]

*****deleted******

 

[Aslan]

There are alot of other thread where Kashmir, india, China, and Pakistan related comments can be discussed. And this is not one of them!

 

[gambit]

Oh you are back again. great it will be fun to see a bunch of terrorist sympathizers collectively trying to falsify the worlds claims. And to justify the killings of innocent humans.

Now tell me even in war it says that you are to treat the enemy soldiers fairly, have to take care of their needs.

The operative words here are 'privileged combatants' and related terminologies. In order to earn this 'privileged combatant' status a person must conform to certain conditions outlined in the GCs. Look them up.

And also to take care of the occupied lands.

Provided that the occupied territory is not being used as part of any war calculus. You are treading into an area you know nothing about.

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

There are alot of other thread where Kashmir, india, China, and Pakistan related comments can be discussed. And this is not one of them!

I can only conclude that

One side's freedom fighters = Another side's terrorists

 

[Marxist]

IDF troops shown bleeding in Turkish press

The Turkish Hurriyet daily has published photos of Israeli Commando soldiers being beaten by passengers aboard the Turkish-owned Marmara vessel, which took part in the aid flotilla to Gaza.
In the pictures, taken in the moments before the IDF succeeded in taking control of the ship, the soldiers are shown bleeding and some of them being led by the activists on board.

The widely-circulated paper says the photos were purposefully censored by Israel, and that they had been saved by one of the activists, who salvaged them from a digital memory stick.

The report, entitled 'Commando tears', says the soldiers who raided the ship attempted to confiscate the activists' digital cameras and memory sticks "in order to leave no trace". It says the photos were originally erased, but later reproduced by advanced Turkish technology.

"The people of the IHH presented the photos of the soldiers' neutralization, which the Israeli army attempted to contain in order to prevent damage to their image," the Hurriyet wrote.


One of the photos shows a Commando soldier lying on his back on deck, surrounded by six people and attempting to cover his face. Another soldier is shown being led down the stairs, his face bloody. At his side is a cameraman, documenting the incident on video.


Another photo shows a soldier falling down the stairs, a wool cap covering his face. In a different photo, two activists are seen awaiting the arrival of the soldiers, metal rods in their hands.


Army: Their sole purpose was to kill troops
It is evident from the pictures that those on board the Marmara succeeded in isolating a number of soldiers and beating them for at least a few minutes before the Israel Defense Forces took control of the vessel.



The soldiers' faces are clearly shown in the photos, whereas the Israeli press blurred them in order to protect the identity of those who took part in the raid.


Commando tears' - Hurriyet headline (from newspaper)

IDF troops shown bleeding in Turkish press - Israel News, Ynetnews

 

[Aslan]

The operative words here are 'privileged combatants' and related terminologies. In order to earn this 'privileged combatant' status a person must conform to certain conditions outlined in the GCs. Look them up.


Provided that the occupied territory is not being used as part of any war calculus.

Enlighten me please. There are somethings better left alone, what you know of the Palestinian struggle, and the continuous genocide of not only the people of Palestine but also of the neighboring countries. But according to you and many like you there is always an excuse.

You are treading into an area you know nothing about.


I will be more then happy to, you have avoided answering on many things before, and the involvement of the US in the ME by derailing the gov's is one of the topics that I touched on and you never answered. So I would like to carry on this debate with you, and lets see how far it can go.

 

[gambit]

Enlighten me please.

About what? How does being a 'privileged combatant' has to do with the boarding of a ship and a naval blockade?

There are somethings better left alone, what you know of the Palestinian struggle, and the continuous genocide of not only the people of Palestine but also of the neighboring countries. But according to you and many like you there is always an excuse.

Spare me the hyperboles about any 'genocide'. Is Egypt suffering any genocide caused by Israel? Is Syria? Is Jordan?

I will be more then happy to, you have avoided answering on many things before, and the involvement of the US in the ME by derailing the gov's is one of the topics that I touched on and you never answered. So I would like to carry on this debate with you, and lets see how far it can go.

I chose to answer questions that I find has any reasonable amount of intelligence in them. Yours are lacking.

 

[Aslan]

Israel could, probably, re-invade Gaza and remove Hamas from power. But the mind-set that endorses tyranny at the expense of freedom, I don't think Israel can or should do by themselves. Not only would Israel be criticized for it, but even if the Gazans seek to become a peaceful people, it's unlikely that outsiders will accept that - that is, arguably, why Iran-supported Hamas seized all power in Gaza three years ago.

Therefore, trying to use the flotilla incident to bash Israel, rather than those who instigated the violence and help keep Gazans in the grip of terror, is counter-productive, both for Arabs and non-Arabs.

See how cleverly you connect, Hamas, Iran, Tyranny all in one statement. That is what you call propaganda. The Hamas were elected by the people of Palestine, just because the israelies dont like them, they create this drama to get rid of them. When Hamas clearly have indicated on more then one occasion that they will recognize israel if the israelies went went back to the 67 borders with complete freedom to the Palestinians. And the magic words here are complete freedom. And this is what your brethren dont want. And that is why they are creating this hysteria that you are a customer to. Why dont israel allow complete freedom to Palestinians as of the 67 borders. Why are you still hellbent on annexing more and more of their land. Because this hallucination that you guys created in the name of granting freedom to Gaza was nothing but a hoax. Your troops moved out. But did they have freedom on sea or in the air. No
Did they have control over their borders! hell no.
Did they have any freedom or control over any thing in their foreign policy and what not. And who could go in and out. A big hell no!
And also remember this, you are as much an outsider to this debate as I am. And vise versa.

 

[Aslan]

About what? How does being a 'privileged combatant' has to do with the boarding of a ship and a naval blockade?


Spare me the hyperboles about any 'genocide'. Is Egypt suffering any genocide caused by Israel? Is Syria? Is Jordan?

The Genocide that I talked about, may be you have forgotten the killings of countless number of people in the occupied lands and also in the neighboring countries.

I chose to answer questions that I find has any reasonable amount of intelligence in them. Yours are lacking.


Basically that is your way of telling me that you are going to chicken out of an argument because you some where inside you know that you are defending the wrong end of the turf. Carry on your living your life in hallucination.

 

[gambit]

The Genocide that I talked about, may be you have forgotten the killings of countless number of people in the occupied lands and also in the neighboring countries.

You need to look up the proper definition of 'genocide'. Then provide a source that says Israel is committing a 'genocide' in a neighboring country...say...Egypt for now.

Basically that is your way of telling me that you are going to chicken out of an argument because you some where inside you know that you are defending the wrong end of the turf. Carry on your living your life in hallucination.

It mean I will answer any questions you have provided they are devoid of hyperbolic nonsense and are relevant to the subject. So how does being a 'privileged combatant' has any relevance to a naval blockade, its legality and the boarding of a ship intent on entering the blockaded zone?

 

[Canaan]

Solomon. A couple of flaws in your reply.
You say that Israel's blockade of Gaza is legal. Israel itself uses the San Remo Manual to support its claims. However, what Israel conveniently omits to mention is that the San Remo Manual also contains rules governing the lawfulness of the blockade itself, and there can be no authority under international law to enforce a blockade which is unlawful. Paragraph 102 of the Manual prohibits a blockade if "the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade".
The background to that 'proportionality' rule is the experience of past world wars where naval blockades had devastating effects on civilian populations.

There is little question that Israel's blockade of Gaza is disproportionate in legal terms. The proportionality rule requires an assessment of the military advantage against the harmful effects on civilians. Israel claims that the blockade is necessary to prevent Hamas from mounting indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israeli civilians.

The proportionality principle requires, however, that Israel's security cannot come at any price. A balancing of interests is necessary to ensure that civilians should not pay too dearly for the security needs of others.

Safeguarding the precious lives of innocents and respecting their dignity as fellow humans is the necessary burden that international law imposes on war. That is why Israel reveals its contempt for international law when, for example in the past, its leaders have pledged to "destroy 100 homes for every rocket fired".

The harmful effects of the blockade on Gazan civilians have included the denial of the basics of life, such as food, fuel and medicine, as well widespread economic collapse.

The UN agency on the ground, the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), has described a "severe humanitarian crisis" in Gaza in relation to human development, health, education, "the psychological stress" on the population, high unemployment (at 50 per cent) and poverty (with 300,000 people living beneath the poverty line), and the collapse of commerce, industry and agriculture.

Such effects are manifestly excessive in relation to Israel's security objectives and cannot possibly satisfy the conditions of a lawful blockade. Disrupting wildly inaccurate rockets from being fired at relatively underpopulated areas of southern Israel cannot possibly justify the acute disruption of the daily lives and livelihoods of more than one million Gazans.

I don't like your terminology, why do you insinuate that the Gazans are not a peaceful people? They together with the democratic majority of the Palestinians elected Hamas democratically into office under International supervision. And now comes the fun part which you fail to mention. Israel and the West were shocked by this victory and immediately with a green US light, Israel imposed a blockade on the Gaza strip, as to press and punish people to overthrow Hamas. At the same time, Mohammad Dahlan, your favorite puppy, with the help of Israel, the US, Jordan and Egypt, started training and arming a Fatah army in order to overthrow Hamas via a Coup d'état. The only thing they missed is that Hamas was a far stronger opponent than anticipated, and within a couple of days all of Fatah forces were humiliatedly kicked out of Gaza, in a coup against the coup by Hamas.
No one will accept a re-occupation of Gaza.
You have to stop mixing things up and attempt to steer away the focus from Israel's crime, and justify it with other things. So typical.
This is not about Hamas or Iran. This is about Israel pirating a ship in international waters and killing civilians, of whom six were murdered by one criminal zionist soldier, whom Israel and others now celebrate as a hero.

 

[Solomon2]

See how cleverly you connect, Hamas, Iran, Tyranny all in one statement. That is what you call propaganda. The Hamas were elected by the people of Palestine -

In Gaza people awake today to a new reality. Last night, my host Isa told me military coups were the sort of thing he heard and read about, he never thought he would experience one. Yesterday Gazans did. Although the final Fatah stronghold was still standing by the evening Hamas fighters were already making the rounds in the streets, three and four jeeps at a time, loaded with armed men wearing all black, their faces covered with masks, holding their guns in the air, a few, rather uncomfortably, waving to the people. On Alaqsa, the only remaining radio station being aired from Gaza belonging to Hamas, these areas are being called “freed” from the traitors...Sitting on the street one could hear the news spread, often the same names of people who had been killed or thought to have escaped were mentioned among the people walking by. The coup d'état was the only thought on their minds of young and old...

Until June, 2007, the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza enjoyed self-rule (as envisioned as early as the 1978 Camp David Accords) under a separation-of-powers democracy. As I understand it, Hamas was elected to a majority in parliament because Fatah was corrupt. Fatah, of course, retained executive power. However, Hamas then used their majority, military might, and terror to seize total control of Gaza and eliminate democracy.

just because the israelies dont like them, they create this drama to get rid of them.

Israel is happy with a knee-capped, de-fanged Hamas; that means only the Gazans are suffering from Hamas, right? (A Hamas re-armed with rocket weapons and concrete command posts, that's another story.) Eliminating a weak Hamas entirely, that's something the Israelis will not do, at least not without a great deal of international support - including support from the Muslim World, I guess.