Btw, just wandering, I hear there's a big muslim population in Israel, who enjoy similar rights that of Israel and does fully acknowledge the right of Israel. Some statment is really scary when some people preach the death of every Israeli citizen, although a good percentage of them are muslims. Just my two pence.
Israel Has No Right To Exist
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You really have not got a clue have you?
Unlike you, who is living on someone else's land, Bangladesh is a legitimate state that has an universal right to exist.
And please do not worry about Bangladesh as it's economy is growing at around 6% a year since the state of the millenium. It's current state of poverty won't last long.
500
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Arab citizens are happy in Israel. If they will want independence from Israel we will give them.
You dont believe in this, otherwise u would return there.
Like I have said earlier, Israel has as much right to exist as Pakistan. The reason is because according to the 1940 census, the 1948 partition plan divided madate Palestine into jewish and Arab majority regions. Even now the two state solution basically envisages the division of jewish majority and Arab(both christian and muslim) majority regions. There ALREADY was a Jewish majority region that was indigenous to that region. Which also goes to show that Jewish populations had a much better level of co-existence than in their Christian-ruled countries.
What Israel DOES NOT have the right is to continue to hold on to the Arab majority territories without giving full political rights to the people living there and continuing to build settlments there.
Yes philosophically speaking, it might have been better if we had a united India with both Muslim and non-Muslim majority regions of India under a single political entity with equal rights for all. But that did not happen. And there was also a migration of millions of non-indegenous people aka Muhajirs who moved into Pakistan after its creation.
Similarly, it might have been philosiphically speaking, a better solution to have single bi national state with autonomy for Jewish and Arab majority areas, this was infact the solution that India had proposed as well in the UN. But THAT did not happen. And just like the Muhajirs in the Pakistani context, there is the Aliyah fo all Jewish people to Israel, although the indigenous jews are now a minority as compared to the migrants. But that does not matter. The Arabs should have accepted the 1948 British partition plan, just as the Congress had eventually accepted the British partition plan for India.
The two state solution now is the solution that has a lot of political backing and support. The Arab League led by the Saudis have an active policy on this which is also endoresed by the OIC. Majorities in Arab countries as well as Israel and Palestine support it.
Israel is currently the most powerful country in the ME with the only country with a nuclear arsenal. It also has unconditional backing of the US. The Israelis are at present in control of the Arab majority regions of mandate Palestine which include the West Bank and Gaza. It is in Israeli interests as well to release these areas from its occupation. While the Arabs living ISrael proper have equal rights, the Arabs living in West Bank and Gaza do not and are basically treated as second class citizens with no political rights making it into an apartheid society.
In short, yes to Israel's right to exist but a no Israel occupying Arab majority regions and building settlements in occupied territories.
Note: Occupied territories to refer to West Bank and Gaza is the official terminology used by the UN and International Court of Justice.
What Israel DOES NOT have the right is to continue to hold on to the Arab majority territories without giving full political rights to the people living there and continuing to build settlments there.
Yes philosophically speaking, it might have been better if we had a united India with both Muslim and non-Muslim majority regions of India under a single political entity with equal rights for all. But that did not happen. And there was also a migration of millions of non-indegenous people aka Muhajirs who moved into Pakistan after its creation.
Similarly, it might have been philosiphically speaking, a better solution to have single bi national state with autonomy for Jewish and Arab majority areas, this was infact the solution that India had proposed as well in the UN. But THAT did not happen. And just like the Muhajirs in the Pakistani context, there is the Aliyah fo all Jewish people to Israel, although the indigenous jews are now a minority as compared to the migrants. But that does not matter. The Arabs should have accepted the 1948 British partition plan, just as the Congress had eventually accepted the British partition plan for India.
The two state solution now is the solution that has a lot of political backing and support. The Arab League led by the Saudis have an active policy on this which is also endoresed by the OIC. Majorities in Arab countries as well as Israel and Palestine support it.
Israel is currently the most powerful country in the ME with the only country with a nuclear arsenal. It also has unconditional backing of the US. The Israelis are at present in control of the Arab majority regions of mandate Palestine which include the West Bank and Gaza. It is in Israeli interests as well to release these areas from its occupation. While the Arabs living ISrael proper have equal rights, the Arabs living in West Bank and Gaza do not and are basically treated as second class citizens with no political rights making it into an apartheid society.
In short, yes to Israel's right to exist but a no Israel occupying Arab majority regions and building settlements in occupied territories.
Note: Occupied territories to refer to West Bank and Gaza is the official terminology used by the UN and International Court of Justice.
Shatterpoint
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I bet most Muslims posters here do not know that the Arabs/Muslims living in Israel have equal rights and are treated the same way as the Jews, so this thread is full of bullshit.
iajj
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but are jews willing to confer citizenship upon all arabs living in jew occupied land? a few cosmetic cases of a few select arabs who are domesticated with gifts and treatments better than their fellow arabs are no proof that jews treat arabs as equal. the few examples are just what they are: cosmetics
muse
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If it is BS then defeat it with argument -
Does Pakistan have a right to exist? Does Arabia? Does US? - if the argument in the original post is valid, then the answers to the above must be an emphatic, No!
Is that acceptable to our forum members??
The original post makes a valid point, the whole "right to exist" is a ploy - but it serves a purpose, if you can first agree that these people have a right to establish themselves, perhaps then we can have some common ground to build on - is that really asking too much??
kinetic energy device
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Oh ! I see. The author is talking about 'Palestinians', the NON-EXISTENT people from that NON-EXISTENT country Palestine. So this thread is FICTITIOUS. COOL.
PALESTINE NEVER EXISTED
[ Editorial Note: The following is text taken from the website ^^^.Masada2000.org. All persons seeking the historical facts concerning the illegitimate territorial claims of Arab Muslims of the Middle East against the Jews are urged to access this website.]
There is a preliminary historical fact that must be established;
"THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A CIVILIZATION OR NATION REFERRED TO AS
“PALESTINE!”
The very notion of a “Palestinian Arab nation”, having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct “Palestinian” culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed by Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964…three years BEFORE the Arabs of “Palestine” lost the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six Day’s War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the “Palestinian” people, Yasser Arafat, is Egyptian! In short, the so-called Arab “Palestinians” are a manufactured people…a people with no history and no authority…whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!
Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later, in 586 B.C., these first ancient Jews in the land of Israel (Judea) were overrun and Israel’s First Jewish Temple (Solomon’s Temple) on Jerusalem’s Old City Temple Mount was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed, enslaved or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews, who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem on the same site as Solomon’s Temple. Thus, the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago, right after the Holocaust, and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!
Then, in 70 A.D.(nearly 2,000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire’s turn to march through ancient Israel, known at that time as Judea, and destroy the Second Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of the Jewish population. The Romans, without success, had tried to impose their many deities on the Jews, but few Jews were willing to submit to the Roman demands regarding their worship, and were certainly unwilling to regard a Roman Emperor as a divine being.
After a succession of uprisings against Roman rule, in which over one and a half million Jews were killed, enslaved or driven out of their homeland, the then Roman Procurator in charge of the area decided to take even another measure in retaliation. Calling his scribes, he asked the historians as to who had been the worst enemies of the Jews in past history. He was told the “Philistines.” Having this determination, he then ordered all maps altered to reflect that the Land of Israel (Judea) would be labeled “Philistia” (further bastardized into “Palaistina”
to dishonor the Jews and obliterate them, if only figuratively, from the map. Hence, the name “Palestine” was invented, and entirely appropriate that this invented name of the Romans would be used by Muhammad’s invented religion of Islam, over 1,800 years later, when initiating its campaign to steal the Jewish homeland. Over 3,250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel’s ancient capital established by King David. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews (Jews), Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward neglected territory from the 16th Century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own…EXCEPT the Jews!
It should be noted that in 636 A.D., when the Arab marauders of Muhammad came to the land, and uprooted even more of the Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there…and certainly not a “Palestinian” nation. They were simply “Arabs” who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called “Palestine!” And, remember this one fact…it was not the Jews who “usurped” (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. It was the Arabs in 636 A.D. who overran and stole it from the Jews! A point: The Dome of the Rock Mosque was constructed atop the ruins of the second Jewish Temple, and not vice-versa!
The Jewish People have the most legitimate “Birth Certificate” of any nation in the world! Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts…all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continuous presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certainly dwarfs any claims that other people in the regions may have.
IN CONCLUSION: No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948, with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area many centuries before the Arabs, and their newly invented religion of Islam appeared on the scene in the 7th Century A.D.
End Notes: (1) The above article has had no deletions from its original content, but we have slightly amplified the explanation of why Israel has been named “Palestine”. We urge our readers to access the Masada2000.dot.org website since it is highly informative and its information has been well researched. (2) Caution: A part of this website enables viewers to access video clips showing Muslims conducting ritual murders of prisoners, and this viewing is certainly not for children or the faint of heart! (3) We urge our readers to access the website of "^^^.MapsofWar.^^^" for a better understanding of the so-called Palestinians spurious claims to the region now popularly known as Palestine.
Only Arabs living in Israel proper and not in the West Bank and Gaza have equal rights. Those Arabs living in Gaza and West Bank DO NOT have political rights and live under martial law where the Israeli defence forces is the ultimate ruler, not elected representatives.
Most people confuse this fact.
yyetttt
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India and Israel are the same things 
1. Both have done massive human rights violations. India (Kashmir), Israel (Palestine).
2. Both support terrorist organizations inside other country's...
3. Both are very close to the US
4. Both act secular but they really only care for their indigenous religion
5. Both are racist over skin color
6. Both think they are superpower yet they have little to no influence to the rest of the world.
7. Both armies have been raped in atleast one war
1. Both have done massive human rights violations. India (Kashmir), Israel (Palestine).
2. Both support terrorist organizations inside other country's...
3. Both are very close to the US
4. Both act secular but they really only care for their indigenous religion
5. Both are racist over skin color
6. Both think they are superpower yet they have little to no influence to the rest of the world.
7. Both armies have been raped in atleast one war
Oh ! I see. The author is talking about 'Palestinians', the NON-EXISTENT people from that NON-EXISTENT country Palestine. So this thread is FICTITIOUS. COOL.
PALESTINE NEVER EXISTED
[ Editorial Note: The following is text taken from the website ^^^.Masada2000.org. All persons seeking the historical facts concerning the illegitimate territorial claims of Arab Muslims of the Middle East against the Jews are urged to access this website.]
There is a preliminary historical fact that must be established;
"THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A CIVILIZATION OR NATION REFERRED TO AS
“PALESTINE!”
The very notion of a “Palestinian Arab nation”, having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct “Palestinian” culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed by Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964…three years BEFORE the Arabs of “Palestine” lost the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six Day’s War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the “Palestinian” people, Yasser Arafat, is Egyptian! In short, the so-called Arab “Palestinians” are a manufactured people…a people with no history and no authority…whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!
Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later, in 586 B.C., these first ancient Jews in the land of Israel (Judea) were overrun and Israel’s First Jewish Temple (Solomon’s Temple) on Jerusalem’s Old City Temple Mount was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed, enslaved or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews, who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem on the same site as Solomon’s Temple. Thus, the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago, right after the Holocaust, and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!
Then, in 70 A.D.(nearly 2,000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire’s turn to march through ancient Israel, known at that time as Judea, and destroy the Second Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of the Jewish population. The Romans, without success, had tried to impose their many deities on the Jews, but few Jews were willing to submit to the Roman demands regarding their worship, and were certainly unwilling to regard a Roman Emperor as a divine being.
After a succession of uprisings against Roman rule, in which over one and a half million Jews were killed, enslaved or driven out of their homeland, the then Roman Procurator in charge of the area decided to take even another measure in retaliation. Calling his scribes, he asked the historians as to who had been the worst enemies of the Jews in past history. He was told the “Philistines.” Having this determination, he then ordered all maps altered to reflect that the Land of Israel (Judea) would be labeled “Philistia” (further bastardized into “Palaistina”
Over 3,250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel’s ancient capital established by King David. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews (Jews), Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward neglected territory from the 16th Century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own…EXCEPT the Jews!
It should be noted that in 636 A.D., when the Arab marauders of Muhammad came to the land, and uprooted even more of the Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there…and certainly not a “Palestinian” nation. They were simply “Arabs” who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called “Palestine!” And, remember this one fact…it was not the Jews who “usurped” (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. It was the Arabs in 636 A.D. who overran and stole it from the Jews! A point: The Dome of the Rock Mosque was constructed atop the ruins of the second Jewish Temple, and not vice-versa!
The Jewish People have the most legitimate “Birth Certificate” of any nation in the world! Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts…all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continuous presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certainly dwarfs any claims that other people in the regions may have.
IN CONCLUSION: No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948, with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area many centuries before the Arabs, and their newly invented religion of Islam appeared on the scene in the 7th Century A.D.
End Notes: (1) The above article has had no deletions from its original content, but we have slightly amplified the explanation of why Israel has been named “Palestine”. We urge our readers to access the Masada2000.dot.org website since it is highly informative and its information has been well researched. (2) Caution: A part of this website enables viewers to access video clips showing Muslims conducting ritual murders of prisoners, and this viewing is certainly not for children or the faint of heart! (3) We urge our readers to access the website of "^^^.MapsofWar.^^^" for a better understanding of the so-called Palestinians spurious claims to the region now popularly known as Palestine.
Saying the state of Palestine never existed is equivalent to saying the Holocaust never happened. So who were this people who forced out of their own land?
Before 1948, there were a group of people who were living their, who were eventually evicted of their own land. No point of taking this debate to hundreds of years back, when most of the countries nowadays did not even exist. Using facts and figures, you can never prove that Israel is indeed a legal state. Somehow your arguments, when you take them to thousands of years ago certainly has no ground whatsoever, because hell even Jesus existence is now questioned. The same country cannot be born twice in the same place for the same people because of jews are told to. I am sorry, but when it comes land border issues, religious prophecies hold no value.
kinetic energy device
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Did you READ THE ABOVE ARTICLE ? It lays things out pretty nicely. A 'nation' or 'state' named Palestine NEVER EXISTED. EVER. Then you may just call Israel the "spoils of war", like many other land areas in the world. Does THAT hold any value.
kaykay
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a little correction!!!India and Israel are the same things
1. Both have done massive human rights violations. India (Kashmir), Israel (Palestine).
2. Both support terrorist organizations inside other country's...
3. Both are very close to the US
4. Both act secular but they really only care for their indigenous religion
5. Both are racist over skin color
6. Both think they are superpower yet they have little to no influence to the rest of the world.
7. Both armies have been raped in atleast one war
Replace 'both' with 'pakistan'.
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