Israel has lost both morally, politically and militarily in its war against Gaza

[500]

It will change the situation.

Gaza death toll hits 1,980 as dozens succumb to war wounds | Maan News Agency

1,480 at least have been confirmed to be civilians.

Confirmed by who? I never heard of any investigation.

Rockets managed to hurt tourism plus get flights to Ben Gurion suspended.

Rockets killed dozens of Palestinians and zero Israelis. In addition they provoked the Israeli retaliation which killed hundreds of Palestinians.

So u are ready to sacrifice your people just to suspend some flights? Thats tells a lot. Would u sacrifice ur own life to suspend flight?

You must have missed two successful operations:
Two soldiers killed by Hamas infiltrators Saturday morning | The Times of Israel

Second one killed 5:
Hamas tunnel raid kills 5 soldiers in southern Israel | The Times of Israel

Building 40 tunnels each of them costs millions, from civilian houses in order to kill 7 Israeli soldiers. Another fail.

There is no advanced ATGM in Gaza

Kornet is the most advanced ATGM in Russian inventory.

No such thing as any booby traps in civilian buildings. Any buildings where IDF were killed was during Israeli forces occupying the building and Hamas later demolishing it.

They demolished them without trapping?

Israel's objectives were never regime change. Israel's objective in the beginning was what they called 'restoring deterrence'. They failed in doing so and so they kept dumbing down their objectives over time.

Why failed? They refused to make even temporary truce before.

Israel succeeded in destroying civilian infrastructure and traumatizing civilians. Their siege also targets civilians efficiently.

Israel succeeded in killing hundreds of Hamas terrorists. Some civilians were hurt because coward terrorists planted their rockets and tunnels among civilian population,

Israel got criticism all over the world. Especially in public opinion which is most important.

Oil can do wonders.

That was actually Israel:

It happened after Hamas rejected it:

Egypt’s proposals on permanent truce with Israel refused, says Hamas | Egypt Independent

 

[Falcon29]

@WebMaster

Take it easy my friend. I like you also don't accept all conspiracies against Saudi Arabia. But, on a geo-political aspect their stance was on line with the Egyptian stance in the beginning of the conflict. Some say this was due to change following Arab public criticism. Saudi Arabia/Egypt got a very bad image during all of this and they were embarrassed by it. They took steps to try to make it like they do support Gaza/Hamas. We have to wait to see if they change their position soon and embrace the resistance.

Here is a good article on it:

Almost a month after the Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip began, Prince Saud Al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister, broke his silence when he spoke at a press conference at the end of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation meeting, saying: "Israel does not have the right to self-defence as an occupier", pointing out that the Kingdom "considered the Palestinian cause to be a top priority", giving a list of the sums donated by the Kingdom for the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip.
The statements made by Prince Faisal are an attempt to fix the serious mistake committed by the Saudi authorities over the past four weeks when it acted as if the Israeli aggression, including the massacres Israel committed against innocent children, which shook the entire world, was taking place on another continent.

Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz, who spoke three times in less than 10 days, did not openly criticise the Israeli government nor did he take any action against it or call on his ally President Abdel Fatah Al-Sisi to open the Rafah border crossing, as a minimum requirement, in order to accommodate the wounded.


In addition to this, he did not announce that his country would open its hospitals to accommodate the wounded victims of the Israeli aggression, as he had done on previous occasions, and we do not know how these matters were overlooked by his advisors and officials.


The information we have received says that the four-party alliance of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE and Jordan, firmly believe that Qatar and Turkey are the two countries that allow Hamas to fire rockets and escalate the tensions with Israel in order to drive Israel to respond, thus embarrassing the Egyptian regime and the camp supporting it and causing chaos in the region.


We do not know how accurate this information is, but what we are certain of is the fact that this alliance's dealings with the Israeli aggression worked in favour of the Turkish and Qatari plan, if it exists, and put the alliance in a very awkward position in front of its people, first, and secondly in front of the Arab public opinion in general, meaning they have fallen into the Turkish-Qatari trap, if one had actually been set.


This Saudi-Egyptian- Emirati- Jordanian alliance's reading of the crisis posed by the Israeli aggression on the Gaza Strip was completely wrong and emotional and its handling of the crisis in the early weeks was therefore not at the required and expected level.


To better explain this, I say that the Saudi-Egyptian- Emirati-Jordanian predictions expected three main scenarios:

1. That Israel would end its aggression once Hamas and all the other resistance factions were eliminated within a few days, thinking the Israeli forces would occupy Gaza, if even for a brief period, and assassinate or detain all of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad officials, and then hand over authority of the Gaza Strip to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. This explains Saudi Arabia's silence and Egypt's continued closure of the Rafah crossing during the first week of aggression and its very limited opening during the second week.
2. That the people of Gaza would revolt against Hamas and the other resistance factions and hold them accountable for the Israeli aggression, and before that, the blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip, but what happened was the exact opposite. All the people of Gaza, or at least the vast majority, rallied behind the resistance and gave it all moral support despite the large losses of lives and homes.
3. That the resistance movements, led by Hamas, would fail to retaliate against the aggression and wave the white flags and surrender, accepting any ceasefire without conditions, but what happened was the exact opposite, which stunned everyone.

I do not rule out the possibility that the Egyptian intelligence, which plays a key role in the blockade on Gaza and in the humiliation of its citizens, is the one that predicted these scenarios and convinced its Arab allies of its accuracy. This would explain the aforementioned four-party alliance's silence throughout the first three weeks of aggression, the failure to dismiss the Israeli ambassadors in Amman and Cairo, and the absence of a call for an emergency meeting of the Arab Summit or even the Arab League foreign ministers, at the very least.


The blatant hostility the four mentioned countries harbour for the Muslim Brotherhood and the war being waged against them has blinded them from seeing anything else in the region, and has driven them to rank Israel as the fifth or sixth political and security priority. This has caused them not to consider Hamas as a resistance movement, and therefore view the Gaza Strip and the nearly two million Palestinians living there as part of this movement and remain silent in the face of the oppression, humiliation, and starvation committed against them. All of this has led to the infliction of serious harm to these countries as well as their embarrassment before their people and the Arab public opinion, which ultimately serves the other opposing camp, particularly political Islam, whether represented in Iran, Syria, Iraq, or the Turkish-Qatari axis, at least in the short and medium-terms. However, we do not know which genius advised them to adopt such policies.


The Saudi-Egyptian- Emirati-Jordanian axis made a mistake in its accounts when it considered the Muslim Brotherhood the greatest threat to the region's security and stability, just as it made the mistake of believing that the task of toppling the regime in Syria would be an easy process that could be achieved within a few months. Before these two mistakes, this axis (with the exception of Jordan) made the mistake of supporting the two American invasions in Iraq, both in its first destructive phase and in its second occupation phase.


The problem is ISIS, not the Brotherhood

....................

 

[Chak Bamu]

@Hazzy997 its not about my feelings about KSA. I have very poor opinion of them post-Egyptian coup sponsored by House of Saud.

@idune posted long rants about KSA on a KSA tourism thread started and maintained by @al-hassani. Ever since my warning to him there, he has nursed a grudge.

 

[Falcon29]

Confirmed by who? I never heard of any investigation.

UN investigated the casualties and latest updates when death toll was over 1,500 is that 84% are civilians.

Rockets killed dozens of Palestinians and zero Israelis.

No proof of such a thing.

In addition they provoked the Israeli retaliation which killed hundreds of Palestinians.

Framing things from your own perspective doesn't reflect reality. Facts/sources do, and you can't prove that Israel was retaliating to any massive unprovoked attacks. I can give sources which suggest Israel took advantage of West Bank incidents to attack Gaza. Many scholars support this theory as well. Israel killed thousands of Palestinians, not the Palestinians.

So u are ready to sacrifice your people just to suspend some flights? Thats tells a lot. Would u sacrifice ur own life to suspend flight?

The Palestinian people are always ready to sacrifice their soldiers to defend their land with all possible means.

Building 40 tunnels each of them costs millions, from civilian houses in order to kill 7 Israeli soldiers. Another fail.

There were no 40 tunnels and neither did any cost millions of dollars. Many are intact still and succeeded in military operations. From your standards(IDF standards of killing 20 children at UN refugee site) that is considered a fail. That is your personal opinion, for others that was a symbolic victory.

Kornet is the most advanced ATGM in Russian inventory.

Barely any Kornet in Gaza, most are 20 year old variants from black market and aren't all Russian. Few are.

They demolished them without trapping?

Ask your military for details.
Booby trap bomb kills 3 paratroopers | JPost | Israel News

It happened after Hamas rejected it:

Israeli decisions have nothing to do with chronological order or Hamas. Decision to reject was made due to the content of proposal.

 

[500]

UN investigated the casualties and latest updates when death toll was over 1,500 is that 84% are civilians.

The investigation of 1 death takes months, investigation of 1500 death will take many many years. UN reported that in midst of the war, without any investigation at all.

No proof of such a thing.

There is a proof that Hamas shrapnel rockets regularly fall into Gaza, Gazans dont have any protection at all (except Hamas terrorists who built bunkers for themselves). Some foreign journalists reported that too:

Framing things from your own perspective doesn't reflect reality. Facts/sources do, and you can't prove that Israel was retaliating to any massive unprovoked attacks. I can give sources which suggest Israel took advantage of West Bank incidents to attack Gaza. Many scholars support this theory as well. Israel killed thousands of Palestinians, not the Palestinians.

Israel has zero interest in Gaza.
Hamas on the other hand openly declares that their aim to to liberate all Palestine.

In addition Hamas was bankrupt and isolated, while Israel was super fine.

The Palestinian people are always ready to sacrifice their soldiers to defend their land with all possible means.

They put rockets in civilian areas, sacrificing civilian lives. Are u ready to sacrifice ur life to suspend a flight?

There were no 40 tunnels and neither did any cost millions of dollars. Many are intact still and succeeded in military operations. From your standards(IDF standards of killing 20 children at UN refugee site) that is considered a fail. That is your personal opinion, for others that was a symbolic victory.

Of course tunnel costs millions. If it was cheap Israel would simply build own tunnels around Gaza to protect itself.

Barely any Kornet in Gaza, most are 20 year old variants from black market and aren't all Russian. Few are.

They had enough Kornets to fire them at yellow school bus. There is also an Iranian version of Kornet which entered production couple years ago.

Ask your military for details.
Booby trap bomb kills 3 paratroopers | JPost | Israel News

Proof that Hamas plants bombs in civilian houses.

Israeli decisions have nothing to do with chronological order or Hamas. Decision to reject was made due to the content of proposal.

Of course it has. If Hamas rejects and Israel accepts then they will demand much more in next round.

And as I said there are dozens confirmations on Hamas rejection and none on Israeli.

 

[Zarvan]

@WebMaster

@Arabian Legend Than I hope they keep there promise because there silence on Gaza has brought shame to Saudi Arabia

 

[jammersat]

Maybe israel's moral , political and sexual lust can eventually lead to twitter and facebook being shutdown , hopefully

 

[Falcon29]

The investigation of 1 death takes months, investigation of 1500 death will take many many years. UN reported that in midst of the war, without any investigation at all.

There is no investigation for reporting deaths. Dead are identified and added to records. UN verifies this.

There is a proof that Hamas shrapnel rockets regularly fall into Gaza, Gazans dont have any protection at all (except Hamas terrorists who built bunkers for themselves). Some foreign journalists reported that too.

No they don't regularly fall into Gaza. There is no evidence to support that. Some in isolated incidents accidentally fall short mostly near the border and rarely cause any casualties.

Israel has zero interest in Gaza.

Israel occupies Gaza. If it had no interest in Gaza it wouldn't occupy Gaza and Gaza would have had an open connection to the world by now.

Hamas on the other hand openly declares that their aim to to liberate all Palestine.

Israel's Likud government openly declares its aim to colonize every inch of Palestine and prevent a Palestinian state.

Hamas's official position is in support of a two state solution on 1967 borders. This is why they joined the unity government. And why the UN/EU/US recognized this government.

If the Israeli regime derails peace in the next decade then the world will be left with no choice but to liberate Palestinian territory. Hamas isn't alone in that, if you believe so you're living in delusion.

Of course tunnel costs millions. If it was cheap Israel would simply build own tunnels around Gaza to protect itself.

No they don't. Israel isn't in a position of self defense. If it wasn't there wouldn't have been numerous UN resolutions condemning Israel's occupation/activities in the occupied territories.

They had enough Kornets to fire them at yellow school bus. There is also an Iranian version of Kornet which entered production couple years ago.

Military road with military buses was targeted from kilometers away. Israeli army was taking teens on a tour through the border. They used them as human shields. Anti-tank missiles aren't 'Kornet', there are many different variants.

Proof that Hamas plants bombs in civilian houses.

There's nothing 'civilian' in a private building used by IDF forces. It becomes a military target and invading forces were rightfully targeted and blown up.

Of course it has. If Hamas rejects and Israel accepts then they will demand much more in next round.

There is no 'next round'. Only Jewish extremists hope for that. US/UN on the other hand want siege lifted and also a seaport of Gaza. Israel doesn't. Too bad for Israel. There are no 'demands' or any future demands. Those are basic rights, Israel is occupying the Palestinian people in hopes they would leave their land in humility/despair. World knows this, and knows they want to be left alone with sovereignty. Which is why there are resolutions such as 242.

And as I said there are dozens confirmations on Hamas rejection and none on Israeli.

There are numerous confirmations of that. Don't be childish.

Israel rejects Egypt's proposals for long-term cease-fire in Gaza | JPost | Israel News

 

[500]

There is no investigation for reporting deaths. Dead are identified and added to records. UN verifies this.

How can UN know that all these hundreds young males were civilians? Did Hamas ever publish the full list of their fighters? Because thats the only way to verify. I wanna see that list.

How can UN know that children and elderly reported by Hamas did not die from natural causes? Because Gaussian dispersion shows that they did add natural cases to the killed:

How can UN know that reported civilians did not die from misfired and exploded Hamas rockets?

No they don't regularly fall into Gaza. There is no evidence to support that. Some in isolated incidents accidentally fall short mostly near the border and rarely cause any casualties.

Even factory produced missiles tend to misfire and fall.

Home made and poorly maintained rockets have very large percent of such misfires. U can see that every time Syrian rebels fire a mortar they go away because that can explode.

Israel occupies Gaza. If it had no interest in Gaza it wouldn't occupy Gaza and Gaza would have had an open connection to the world by now.

Not according to the international law.

Israel has zero interest in Gaza. Israel implements some security measures as reaction to Hamas attacks.

Israel's Likud government openly declares its aim to colonize every inch of Palestine and prevent a Palestinian state.

Actually Netanyahu accepted 2 state solution.

Hamas's official position is in support of a two state solution on 1967 borders. This is why they joined the unity government. And why the UN/EU/US recognized this government.

No they never officially said that. More over, they reject even the Oslo agreements.

Military road with military buses was targeted from kilometers away. Israeli army was taking teens on a tour through the border. They used them as human shields. Anti-tank missiles aren't 'Kornet', there are many different variants.

You are lying about military road again. It was a yellow school bus on regular road. Bring poor or STFU.

There's nothing 'civilian' in a private building used by IDF forces. It becomes a military target and invading forces were rightfully targeted and blown up.

U cant trap them after they were captured by IDF.

There are numerous confirmations of that. Don't be childish.

LOL and you bring same exactly link. Here simple Google search, all tell about Hamas rejection:

long term truce egypt proposal gaza - Google Search

 

[Falcon29]

How can UN know that all these hundreds young males were civilians? Did Hamas ever publish the full list of their fighters? Because thats the only way to verify. I wanna see that list.

Because they can. There already are lists. Go look up identification processes or join a human rights organization if you're so interested.

How can UN know that reported civilians did not die from misfired and exploded Hamas rockets?

How can UN know that unicorns were bombing Gaza? There were no reported incidents of that except in one case earlier. They know because an air strike occurs and rescue teams are sent to locations.

Not according to the international law.

Israel occupies Gaza according to international law. UN is international law. US also considers Gaza occupied.

Israel has zero interest in Gaza.

Israel occupies Gaza.

Actually Netanyahu accepted 2 state solution.

Source?

No they never officially said that. More over, they reject even the Oslo agreements.

Oslo agreements have nothing to do with the current state of affairs. Israel rejects Olso agreements by building settlements. They always have officially said that which is why UN/US recognized unity government.

You are lying about military road again. It was a yellow school bus on regular road. Bring poor or STFU.

You STFU, it's a military road right on the border used by IDF and it was a military tour with IDF using children as human shields after shortly after attacking Gaza and killing Palestinians. That has nothing to do with the topic anyways.

U cant trap them after they were captured by IDF.

What about trap?

There are passage ways which can be used to blow up IDF terrorists. Or simply private buildings being prepared after spotting Israeli attempts to advance deserted buildings which IDF turns into combat zones.

LOL and you bring same exactly link.

'LOL' , and that 'same axactly link' is all that is needed. You acknowledge it was rejected by your PM. Same news is being reported on other Israeli websites, I can't post that because my computer freezes every time I click on them.

 

[500]

Because they can. There already are lists. Go look up identification processes or join a human rights organization if you're so interested.

So where is the list of all Gaza terrorist groups members, where can I verify?

If they said: we have no proof that they are militants therefore we suppose, that they were civilians. I could accept it. But no, they made CLAIM that all these hundreds of killed males aged 20-30 were civilians.

How can UN know that unicorns were bombing Gaza? There were no reported incidents of that except in one case earlier. They know because an air strike occurs and rescue teams are sent to locations.

Misfiring rockets are proven facts in contrast to unicorns.

Israel occupies Gaza according to international law.

No:

Art. 42.
Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

Source?

Israel's Netanyahu Endorses Creation of Palestinian State but Attaches Conditions

Oslo agreements have nothing to do with the current state of affairs. Israel rejects Olso agreements by building settlements. They always have officially said that which is why UN/US recognized unity government.

Wrong. There is nothing on building settlements in Oslo agreements.

You STFU, it's a military road right on the border used by IDF and it was a military tour with IDF using children as human shields after shortly after attacking Gaza and killing Palestinians. That has nothing to do with the topic anyways.

U could not provide a tinniest evidence it is a "military road". Its just a road several kms from Gaza. Basically what u are saying that Hamas has full right to fire at any vehicle they wish 5 kms from Gaza.

What about trap?

In order to make a trap u should plant bomb prior entrance.

'LOL' , and that 'same axactly link' is all that is needed. You acknowledge it was rejected by your PM. Same news is being reported on other Israeli websites, I can't post that because my computer freezes every time I click on them.

There is only one link and it came after Hamas rejection.

 

[jerry_tan]

this is getting exciting, 500 kicked hammas i mean hazzy *** in debate all day long

 

[Falcon29]

@500

You're repeating the same things I just addressed to you.

this is getting exciting, 500 kicked hammas i mean hazzy *** in debate all day long

Because a hindu clown bigot like you says so?

@DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @Abu Zolfiqar

Is this guy Afghani or Hindu?

 

[Falcon29]

@DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @Abu Zolfiqar

Is this guy Afghani or Hindu?

 

[Desert Fox]

@DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @Abu Zolfiqar

Is this guy Afghani or Hindu?

Most likely a pro-zionist hindu